I had a discussion yesterday about a disc being legally holed out... I assume we've all seem this image at this QA.
https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-c...orizontal-position-top-trays-rim-spanning-two
Now, i hadn't read the QA in quite a while so didn't know the exact wording of it off the top of my head and just had the image in my mind and reasoned through the rules to a different conclusion that the QA does in our hypothetical. Discs 1, 2, and i guess maybe 5 are the discs in question. Based on my understanding, the wording of the QA makes it technically possible for a disc to enter the basket incorrectly according to rule 807.B and still count?
Disc 6 doesn't count because of this rule. And by extension a disc sitting inside the basket that entered through the side of the basket would NOT count, by my understanding, for the same reason. It did not enter the target correctly so that it happens to be supported by the target means nothing.
Now, onto the hypothetical. IF a disc managed to somehow fully enter the target incorrectly through the cage or otherwise THEN landed in the position of disc 1 (which i guess also applies to discs 2 and 5) without exiting and reentering the target legally, based on the boded section of the rule, i understand that in this hypothetical it technically should not count because it entered the target incorrectly. But the QA says in all of the scenarios it doesn't matter how the disc got there (even if it was in a way that violates the rule above?) because the plane is broken.
Now, extending what the QA says, any disc that breaks the plane at any point counts, no? So, a disc that enters the target incorrectly then tries to flip out over the lip of the cage (getting to a similar position as disc 1 in the image) but falls back in still counts because it broke the plane. Even though it entered the target incorrectly. To me, it seems like the rule and the QA contradict each other in this scenario. Or even in scenarios where the disc is in position 1, 2 or 5 and the disc did not enter the basket correctly.
Why does the plane being broken matter if the disc entered the basket illegally? Shouldn't the plane being broken be contingent on the disc entering the basket correctly, just as the disc being supported by the target after coming to rest is? Or, does breaking the plane constitute "entering" even if the disc has already entered the basket incorrectly?....that's just silly; if you climbed into a building though a window then stuck just your arm through the front door from the inside and pulled it back in you still didn't enter the building through the front door just because 'you broke the plane of the doorway'.
Either the rule is worded poorly or the QA is wrong in this hypothetical....or I'm just a moron, which is definitely a possibility.
Opinions?
https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-c...orizontal-position-top-trays-rim-spanning-two
Now, i hadn't read the QA in quite a while so didn't know the exact wording of it off the top of my head and just had the image in my mind and reasoned through the rules to a different conclusion that the QA does in our hypothetical. Discs 1, 2, and i guess maybe 5 are the discs in question. Based on my understanding, the wording of the QA makes it technically possible for a disc to enter the basket incorrectly according to rule 807.B and still count?
In order to complete a hole with a basket target, the thrower must release the disc and it must enter the target above the top of the tray and below the bottom of the chain support, and come to rest supported by the target.
Disc 6 doesn't count because of this rule. And by extension a disc sitting inside the basket that entered through the side of the basket would NOT count, by my understanding, for the same reason. It did not enter the target correctly so that it happens to be supported by the target means nothing.
Now, onto the hypothetical. IF a disc managed to somehow fully enter the target incorrectly through the cage or otherwise THEN landed in the position of disc 1 (which i guess also applies to discs 2 and 5) without exiting and reentering the target legally, based on the boded section of the rule, i understand that in this hypothetical it technically should not count because it entered the target incorrectly. But the QA says in all of the scenarios it doesn't matter how the disc got there (even if it was in a way that violates the rule above?) because the plane is broken.
Now, extending what the QA says, any disc that breaks the plane at any point counts, no? So, a disc that enters the target incorrectly then tries to flip out over the lip of the cage (getting to a similar position as disc 1 in the image) but falls back in still counts because it broke the plane. Even though it entered the target incorrectly. To me, it seems like the rule and the QA contradict each other in this scenario. Or even in scenarios where the disc is in position 1, 2 or 5 and the disc did not enter the basket correctly.
Why does the plane being broken matter if the disc entered the basket illegally? Shouldn't the plane being broken be contingent on the disc entering the basket correctly, just as the disc being supported by the target after coming to rest is? Or, does breaking the plane constitute "entering" even if the disc has already entered the basket incorrectly?....that's just silly; if you climbed into a building though a window then stuck just your arm through the front door from the inside and pulled it back in you still didn't enter the building through the front door just because 'you broke the plane of the doorway'.
Either the rule is worded poorly or the QA is wrong in this hypothetical....or I'm just a moron, which is definitely a possibility.
Opinions?