I'm sure this subject has been talked about before. I was playing with 2 of my friends at grignon in Kaukauna, wi. We came up to # 14 and we all threw our 1st discs. All were 5-6ft short. So we threw another disc and wouldn't ya know it, I threw my vroc straight as an arrow and aced the hole. I never really got exited knowing it really didn't count. What a bummer!!!!!!!! Oh well, that's 2 for me on the same hole. I was by myself 10 years ago and aced it. Not a single person in site!!!!!