Alexplz's bag threadskie

[Alexplz]

Hey there folks, 2017 season is near at a close, and soon it will be entirely impractical for me to get out and play a round, at least with Alexplz Jr. in tow. I figured I'd start up a bag thread to end all bag threads, and just post up a new comment when I make changes.

Without further adieu, here are some stats:

Spoiler

Vitals:
Years playing/experience: DG 4 yearsish
Right/left-handed/ambidextrous: right-handed
Throwing Style: Primarily RHBH, RHFH
Golf Distance (avg/max*) for putter/mid/driver: putters go 250ft, stable mids go about 275ft on a hyzer, speed 7 fairways go 300ft, terns on max D go 350ft at most, closer to an easy 300. Nose up issues.

* Max distance is the greatest distance you can throw your top 2-3 drivers with any regularity


Optional:
Age: 29 at the moment
Sex: M
Injuries/handicaps?: none
Other sport proficiencies?: none
Additional Information: I don't get out as much as I would like, so I have a hard time learning from my mistakes and getting improvements to form to stick.
What do you like/dislike about your current bag?: I have a hard time deciding on a cohesive lineup for my mids and fairways. I would like to cycle less molds but have a hard time playing enough to actually beat stuff in. This in combination with feeling like I need a dedicated mold/disc at each speed to easily turn over, as I play mostly in the woods and need good shot shaping options at 65-80%
Specific areas of desired feedback: I would like to continue to pare down on molds while not struggling on important utility shots like hyzer flips, skip shots, thumbers, etc

My bag is built around workhorse molds. These include the envy, the comet/seasoned rancho roc, the teebird, and the tern. These I throw most of my shots with because outside of constraints, they fly predictably and reliably when compared to other discs in their distance class, and they require little or no thought in finding the right replacement in case I lose a workhorse.

These are the foundation upon which the rest of my discs are selected - the rest of my discs complement the flight of these molds and are used when constraints are present from being able to just throw a basic low, slight hyzer to the best landing zone. I try to fill in these next slots with different copies of the workhorse discs when appropriate - ie when a MF teebird gives me enough additional stability to justify bagging another teebird and not just bagging a felon or firebird to cover the OS fairway slot. If I feel like an additional teebird or comet in a different plastic, wear pattern or weight does not adequately fill the slot I am looking for, I have no qualms with bagging another mold. The other mold should naturally not overlap too much with the workhorse in the bag, unless there's some good reason. In this situation, however, I do value selecting a different mold which shares similarity to the feel of my workhorse molds in the hand and in the air when possible. For example, when bagging buzzzes and I decide I want a bookend, I will choose a buzzz OS and SS if possible first, but if I'm not getting the flight pattern I desire I will happily pick up a verdict and fuse instead (unbeaded or microbeaded and fast for a mid), while still preferring these two over bagging a rancho roc and an X comet alongside a buzzz, as these are beaded and slower. This intention is primarily a concession to the idea that in a perfect world, I could have access to an infinite cycle of aviars, rocs, teebirds, firebirds etc in a rainbow of wear patterns that could cover all the stabilities I needed while maintaining perfect mold/plastic familiarity. This is not the case, so I prefer to stick with my plan and lean in the direction of SIMILAR molds and plastics when appropriate.

Up until now, I have only filled in the stable and understable sides of the workhorse discs, with no regard to other constraints. From here, I will look at a lineup and decide whether or not I am comfortable throwing the stable plastic in each speed category on forehand shots. If not, I have either added a forehand specific disc or two in each speed category, or as a concession to reduction of total discs bagged, removed the stable discs I had originally selected based on similarity to the workhorse in favor of the forehand specific disc(s). Like many, my forehand grip comfort is finicky and have found that it's worth it to be able to flick something in each speed category, especially in the NW woods. I am comfortable throwing anything backhand however, and if I've replaced a rancho roc with a verdict as my stable BH/FH mid, it doesn't bother me too much that the next step down in stability is a big bead, speed-4 Z comet.

At this point, I have a bag full of workhorse discs and bookends, and am comfortable flicking something at each speed category. Here is basically where experience on the course has lead me to seek something out to cover a situation or shot that I was not comfortable with - think a tricky hyzer flip in the woods, or an OS utility shot like a FH roller or thumber, or a sidewind that carried away an anny, or an approach shot that faded early and left me with a 40 footer. I would really call these utility discs or one-offs, as their primary purpose is for me to try to avoid needing to throw them. Finally and as an afterthought I may have a disc or two that comes in or out of my bag depending on the course, like a DX teebird for water shots and a DX roc that I'm beating in as a backup, or whatever.

So here's the bag as it sits:

Putting putters:

Zero Hard Dagger 173g - circle putting - picked up a putter at Mando's in Auburn and tossed it at the practice basket, and I was hooked on this mold. Previously putted with Judges, and after some work on the putting form this year I decided I wanted to go back to deep dish. I find these less LSS than wizards on longer putts.

Zero Hard Dagger 173g - bought this one used, nice and beat, use it for long putts and throwing approaches. The idea is that I never "throw" the other Dagger so it stays unwarped, opting instead to throw this one if needed. That way I have the "touch" of throwing a putter the same mold as my putting putter without having to worry about blasting my main putter into a tree.

Workhorse throwers:

Neutron Envy 174g - Picked this up on my quest for a slightly more stable Judge. Previously I threw a fuzion or lucid judge here. Those who throw judges know that their biggest selling point - being a beaded, neutral putter - can also be their downfall when you need something to hook up as it slows down. The envy looks and feels plenty different, but throws really similarly and has a perfect straight to fade flight for drives and approaches outside 100ft. Note that although it's not that shallow, the Envy is very flickable on straight to late fade lines.

ESP Zone 174g - You know it, you love it, overstable bookend to the Envy. This wins out over a rhyno due to it's perfect flickability. I'm comforable throwing this as a BH mid too, as it complements my verdict nicely in this way as a glideless, more OS mid like a less dynamic gator.

Blend Judge 174g - took this out recently and played a one-disc round in the woods to knock some fade off of it. Thrown like a mini comet on any shorter approach line. I need a slow approach disc that does not fade in my game, and a beat Judge has that in spades, while also being really comfortable and low profile for drives. I would really not mind replacing this or simply adding a proxy so I could get the added bonus of throwing something very much like an Envy. However I fear the proxy might be too fast or far.

Seasoned KC Roc 174g - picked this one up used; it has a big gouge out of the rim but it sits flat on a table without rocking. HSS has been beat out of it, but it will fly straight and long unless I overpower or put OAT on it. I don't think it's a "flat top" per se but the dome is very small. I have tried a DX Roc3 here to try and capture this flight, but the glide is missing.

DX Roc 177g - picked up this and its brother new in order to start beating in a roc cycle. And boy it takes a while. If/when this one surpasses the above KC in flippiness, I will probably take the KC out of the bag for a while and throw in this guy's brother, same for the X comet until I have a full cycle of rocs and backups which will eventually shift into KC plastic. Not going to overthink it because even if I lost all my seasoned rocs I could start over with a brand new DX rancho, my Z comet and an X comet, no biggie.

X Comet 176g - understable roc slot, what can I say. I'll be happy when I have a roc which is beat up enough to replace this one as I anticipate a nice S-flight as opposed to this pure straight or turnover.

Lucid Verdict 175g - This is in the bag almost purely for midrange FH shots, at which it excels. I do not flick rancho rocs. Straight to fade with more glide than a buzzz OS... what more can I say? I would throw this BH if I felt like my current most stable Roc in the bag could not handle the wind. Or if I needed some weird midrange low skippy shot.

Star TeeBird 168g - this I've bagged for years - it's nicely seasoned but still flies like a teeb. Straight to fade. I have considered eagles here because in general I actually prefer a flip to fade type of flight. There are advantages to straight to fade though, especially in the fairway driver slots.

Metal Flake TeeBird 173g - Super beefy, appropriate for my arm speed. OS bookend to the star teeb.

Star TL 171g - flies just like a beat up DX teeb.

Underworld 168-170g - waffling between a TP and VIP underworld, will test them when I can and choose the one I prefer. This mold is unique as a driver which flies true understable for me when thrown smooth. Very little if any fade.

GStar Leopard 171g - I can't help but bag this. Goes straighter with less effort than the TL.. really bridges the significant gap between the TL and underworld.

Continued opcorn:

 

[Alexplz]

JL Champ Tern 168g - I call my Terns cheater discs because they fly so far and so predictably, but I would otherwise have no business throwing a speed 12 with my armspeed and form. Champ Tern goes farrrr and leffft. Will flip in a headwind.

C-Line DDX 168g - half Tern, half discmania top, all money. Still far, more lefffft, does not run from the wind. Not saying it's great in the wind, just saying I bag one in case.

Star Tern 168g - nice and flippy, really unusual for me to find a premium plastic driver that I can turn. Turns but always fades back like a teebird in the last portion of flight. I intend to throw a gstar or echo star tern in the bag, along with maybe a pro tern, to have all the notches of stability covered I could want here.

Star Wraith 168g - I used to throw a Z avenger for forehand distance but it got too neutral over time. I decided to try something a little faster, and fell in love with the wraith for FH. I don't really throw this backhand.


Utility discs:

S line Mystic 168g - I like something that I know is just going to turn, period. I like base plastic for this slot, and have tried stingrays and stratuses but felt like they were too fragile in base plastic. Gateway SureGrip on the other hand is AMAZING baseline plastic. Grippy and hard. Easy flip to fade for days. This is the US mirror of my FAF firebird.

GL Saint 170g - The first in a line of discs to bridge the vast gap between my speed 7s and 12s. This flies pretty stable for me, just longer than my teebs but controllable on long flexy lines in the woods. Glide for days.

VIP Fortress 173g - I went looking for something meaner than my champ thunderbird after noticing I'd rather throw my MF teeb into a headwind or through a crosswind. Never clicked with PDs, decided to check out the fortress as it had a slightly wider rim. Really dig this as a fast, OS control driver.

TP fortress 168g - haven't had a chance to throw this, but loved the way the VIP flew so much I figured I'd give it a shot. I have a feeling this could kick the wraith out of my bag as my preferred FH distance disc.

12x FAF champ Firebird 168g - every bit as OS as a FAF FB should be. It's here for utility OS shots like crazy flex lines, FH rollers, grenades, and thumbers. I do have a backup, but I wish they would put out a Firebird3 and be done with it.

DX TeeBird 168g - water shots. Flies just like my star teeb. Usually kept in a side pocket.

 

[jdw80550]

I dig most of your bag. You seem to be struggling with the US driver area. Leo, TL, Saint, and Undertow can all be made to perform the same types of shots. If you like to cycling feel you are getting with the rocs and teebirds, I would recommend you pick either the leopard or the saint, and try a couple of pro/recycle or star/gl and begin the cycling process. My guess is could probably get away with using the Mystic or Undertow to cover the same shot. Only other recommendation I might add, is to cut down on the putters. Not because you can't throw them, just because it gives you too many choices sometimes. KISS (keep it simple stupid) helps when you start to play the waffling game.

 

[Alexplz]

Now looking at putting together a buzzz-based midrange lineup after the crushing loss of the abovementioned DX Roc.

Would likely drop the Zone and other mids and bag:

Z Buzzz OS 177+g - basically the perfect mid for forehand, in flight and shape. Doesn't hurt that it feels like a Buzzz for backhand, too.

Z Buzzz 177+g - will happily take 100% of my power stay straight with a reliable fade. Like the DX roc I lost.

ESP Comet lower 170s - will seek a comet as a mid that powers down nicely, and will flip up to a slight fade when thrown 80%+. For those times in the woods where you don't want to have to crush something to fly an intended path. Presently this slot will be taken by the beat, flat KC roc above.

S line Mystic 167g

 

[Alexplz]

snip

In considering your advice, here's a lineup I might try out to simplify things a bit, or at least cut down on the sheer # of discs:

Dagger + beat up backup
Envy + Proxy (picked this up yesterday - 167g neutron)

Buzzz OS
Buzzz - 176g ESP FLX
Comet - 172g ESP (also grabbed this yesterday, exactly what I was looking for)
Mystic - possibly an X comet, however I picked up the mystic specifically as an US utility that is easy to hyzer flip in the woods, not sure how much I want to bend to accommodate mold minimalism if an X comet doesn't quite cover what I want.

G FD 170g (another pickup from yesterday)
Star Teeb
GL + VIP Fortresses

DDXs/Terns + possibly a mamba

FAF firebird for OS utility

that's under 20 discs, which I accomplish by eschewing a few understable options in favor of an FD. This in combination with throwing FH should cover most left to right shots, aside from shot shaping in the woods with my mystic.

 

[jdw80550]

I think you use this setup for a couple of weeks and you will either realize the others were just extra weight, or you will really miss a certain disc and be able to bag only the ones you are missing.

 

[Alexplz]

Hey, off season bag update. The DX Roc I lost was returned! Thanks buddy.

A GStar and Pro Tern, both 168ish g, are coming in the mail tomorrow. Plan is to flesh out my Tern lineup and ensure I have the slight flip to fade and the understable slot covered. My Star Tern is beating in more, which is great, but I was concerned what I would do about the slight flip to fade shot, and the understable Tern slot if I lost it. I Like the idea of bagging a stack of my preferred DD, just like the pros!

I have also taken a different look at my understable discs. One might pose the question "what is the point of understable discs, assuming that you have the slots between OS and neutral filled in each speed category, and you have serviceable forehand form?" The answer I think, is there is very little point, outside covering some fairly specific, one could almost say "trick" shots, along with general shot shaping.

The following shots could be needlessly difficult to pull off effectively without somewhat dedicated, appropriately understable discs. In approx order of importance, or of difficulty to pull off with a more stable disc:

1. shot shaping in the woods, hyzer flips
2. backhand distance rollers
3. left-to-right shots outside the effective range of my distance FH
4. tailwind distance
5. touch approach

I figure looking at it this way, I can build a bag list to cover BH and FH shots with OS through neutral discs, then go back and add the minimum number of US discs to cover the above shots, possibly fill things out with utility discs, and be good to go. This way I can rely on my comparatively decent FH to cover most of my left-to-right duties, and avoid bagging an unnecessary number of discs that could cause shots to overlap.

So here's the rubric for this plan:

Putting putters:

Approach:
OS
S (stable - that is to say, a disc that I can get to fly straight with a protracted HSS flight and end with a reliable LSS fade)
N (neutral - a disc that flies straight or high-speed-US, and finishes with little LSS fade)
FH? (the question mark is to denote that I may or may not want to bag an additional disc specifically to flick in case my discs chosen to fill the above roles can't be flicked comfortably)

Midrange:
OS
S
N
FH?

Fairway/CD:
OS
S
N
FH?

Distance:
OS
S
N
FH?

1. shot shaping in the woods, hyzer flips:
2. backhand distance rollers:
3. left-to-right shots outside the effective range of my distance FH:
4. tailwind distance:
5. touch approach:

...

So here's how I would fill this in:

Putting putters:
Hard Dagger x2 - one fresh, one beat for throwing and go-fors

Approach:
OS: JB zone
S: N Envy
N: N Proxy
FH? check - #zone4life

Midrange:
OS: Z buzzz OS
S: Z buzzz
N: ESP comet
FH? check - BOS is flickable

Fairway/CD:
OS: fortress/FAF FB combo
S: star teebird
N: G FD
FH? check - fortress, FB, teeb all flickable

Distance:
OS: DDX/JL tern
S: GStar tern
N: star tern/pro tern
FH? - extra disc needed, as I am not comfortable flicking terns or DDXs. Star wraith is fine here.

1. shot shaping in the woods, hyzer flips: S-line mystic is nice because I can flip it with <80% power, underworld could work too.
2. backhand distance rollers: Underworld seems like a good choice, maybe the mystic but I haven't tried to roll it yet, not sure how far/controllably it rolls
3. left-to-right shots outside the effective range of my distance FH: This is tricky, as my FH with a wraith probably goes about the distance of a BH shot with the underworld. So I would have to say either a mamba or a more beat up tern would go here.
4. tailwind distance: speed 12 stuff just falls out of the sky with a tailwind for me, mamba might work. A fairway driver would probably be better, so an underworld. In fact, I could probably throw an understable mid just as far as a driver in a tailwind, so maybe the mystic.
5. touch approach: using the proxy or beat dagger here, no biggie, no addt disc needed.

...so #1 and 2 are a wash, could roll with a mystic or underworld for either. #3 goes to the mamba, if I decide a beat tern is not good enough. #4 again goes to either the underworld or the mystic. Also keep in mind I have considered picking up a D FD to beat in and use for everything the underworld does, and gives me the warm fuzzy feeling of using 1 less mold. I would say overall I am most comfortable using my FH and BH annys covering what the mystic does for me, so I think I will bag the underworld as my US utility disc of choice.

Similarly to the question posed about the point of US discs, you could ask what the point of having a bunch of slower OS discs is, as one always has the option of powering down on a firebird etc. I would say a slow OS approach disc is good for when you don't want a skip, and an OS mid is nice for controlled FH and wind.

So taking the list from above and adding the underworld, my current bag:

Hard Dagger x2

N Envy/Proxy
JB Zone

Z BuzzzOS/Buzzz
ESP Comet

VIP Underworld
G FD
Star Teeb
FAF FB/VIP Fortress combo

Star Wraith
Terns x4/DDX

 

[Alexplz]

Scratching my head about fairway/control drivers today. I have taken to looking at putters/approach/mids and also distance drivers as the foundation which my bag is built on, and control drivers as more of a catch all.

Looking at the slots I want to bag, some of them are specific to a certain disc, and some of them are more of a shot archetype - here's what I mean: the first disc I think of when I think control drivers I want to bag is my seasoned star teebird 168g. Flies just like a mellow teebird, perfect plastic, perfect weight, perfect condition. Then I think to myself I also want a disc that allows me take the farthest possible straight line shot while also being controllable and forgiving, with little lateral movement. This of course could be filled with any number of things - a TL or FD come to mind.

So basically I'm thinking:

-Star teeb
-long straight control driver
-OS utility disc for overhand throws and OS trick shots - my 12x FAF champ FB fills this role nicely, also have a 150 class champ banshee which could work here too, although is even more specialized as I wouldn't be throwing it in the wind or for FH rollers; just too lightweight.
-thrower OS fairway - I imagine a Sexton firebird here, something max weight and very stable but also a little more workable than a FAF firebird. Could be a star firebird which I could buy, or my MF teebird, or my lucid Felon. This slot is actually where I'm snagging a bit - do I throw another teebird or another firebird?
-headwind driver - a VIP fortress is perfect here - sharp rim for cutting the headwind, lower glide, a little bit faster than what I'm comfortable with in the calm. The MF teebird does fine in the headwind, as would any felon or firebird I'm considering for other slots, but I may be willing to go with a more specialized disc here specifically to cut headwinds as it means I will also have an OS driver to throw FH when appropriate.
-turnover driver - like my post about an understable utility disc above, I've come to realize that I throw a premium plastic underworld the same way a pro would throw a champ roadrunner or sidewinder. These speed-9 molds are surprisingly much too stable for me to really get over on them consistently.

I feel like I need to worry about mold minimalization a little less here, and don't need to worry about filling in the gaps between discs too much. Mostly I'm trying to decide which stable/OS mold I want to double up on and cover that workable OS backhand slot. TB/TB/FB/fortress, or TB/FB/FB/fortress? Or maybe even skip the fortress and go TB/FB/FB.

 

[Serob90]

So you're looking for a slightly OS Fairway driver, not quite FAF firebird but beefier than a teebird? And then something US enough to turn over from flat?

Sounds like you could just use a 175 MF Teebird3 for that slot... Or an FD2.

For that turnover slot I really think with good form you should be able to get over on a Leopard3 for a slight flip up 300+ straight shot. or a flat to anny and have it fight back just a bit at the end to flatten out. Though I feel like your G FD will start getting flippy on you with wear and improved form/power.

 

[Alexplz]

So you're looking for a slightly OS Fairway driver, not quite FAF firebird but beefier than a teebird? And then something US enough to turn over from flat?

Sounds like you could just use a 175 MF Teebird3 for that slot... Or an FD2.

For that turnover slot I really think with good form you should be able to get over on a Leopard3 for a slight flip up 300+ straight shot. or a flat to anny and have it fight back just a bit at the end to flatten out. Though I feel like your G FD will start getting flippy on you with wear and improved form/power.

On the first point - not US enough to turn from flat, plenty beefy but something that will do more than fall out of the sky on a BH shot. Presently I will probably roll with my beefy MF teeb.

I have yet to actually throw the FD, but found a GStar leopard same weight to be just about the stability I was looking for, but decided to try an FD for no other reason than the slightly wider rim and the glide. Anticipate a nice straight flight initially.

 

[hugheshilton]

On the first point - not US enough to turn from flat, plenty beefy but something that will do more than fall out of the sky on a BH shot. Presently I will probably roll with my beefy MF teeb.

Fwiw, I use a Star Thunderbird in this slot. I can throw it as hard as I like and get a nice, straight flight with decent glide and strong fade at the end (but not as strong a fade or as big a skip as a Firebird). It's right in between a Teebird and a Firebird for me. Thunderbirds probably get 90% of my fairway/control driver type shots.

 

[Alexplz]

Fwiw, I use a Star Thunderbird in this slot. I can throw it as hard as I like and get a nice, straight flight with decent glide and strong fade at the end (but not as strong a fade or as big a skip as a Firebird). It's right in between a Teebird and a Firebird for me. Thunderbirds probably get 90% of my fairway/control driver type shots.

I have a champ thunderbird 170g probably 8/10 that I haven't clicked with on backhand or forehand drives. I threw it into a headwind one time and it seemed to wilt a bit and get pushed back. My MF teebird on the other hand muscled through and flew further than it does in the calm... thing is the definition of beef.

It seems like there are numerous options between a teebird and firebird - I understand you like the star thunderbird for the slot. What about a felon or FD3? I think I want less LSS bite than the firebird but high HSS, and low glide.

Anyway, here's a chilly bag update after I picked up a bio emac:


hard dagger - intend to pick up a medium if I find this to be too stiff or slick in the cold

backup beat dagger

classic blend judge - decided to roll with judges over the envy/proxy alongside the JB zone.

fuzion judge

JB zone - money flick approaches, probably more backhands as it beats

ESP zone - lets me get away with the verdict as my primary OS mid, which is less OS and glidier than the buzzz OS

X comet - I expect to mostly throw the ESP comet as I trust premium comets more than Xs. However, as this beats, I expect I will like it on powered down turnovers more.

ESP comet

bio emac truth - I was thinking either a lucid regular truth or a bio emac... the shop had a nice tomato bisque red bio emac, so here I am. 178g.

lucid verdict - really enjoy FH with this disc. Has a slight dome and more heart/glide than the buzzz OS. Does not threaten to overlap with the zones like the BOS.

TP underworld - throw this like a pro would throw a champ roadrunner - tailwinds, rollers.

TL - gliding straight shots, use in the woods. This could potentially swap out to my G FD if I get frustrated by it fading out too soon at any point.

star teebird

FAF FB - 12x champ utility goodness

VIP fortress - slice n dice headwinds, super stable forehands

star wraith - FH distance utility.

DDX/terns:
star tern
pro tern - picked up the pro and GStar terns to fill in my tern lineup
gstar tern
champ tern
C DDX - this is a stand in for a stack of backup champ terns

 

[Alexplz]

Here's a look at my alternate bag, built to get some throw time with molds alternate to my main lineup that I want to test, work on or beat in. Based on Garb's "How to Build a Bag" thread primarily.

Dagger for putting exclusively 173g
Classic Judge for throwing and to beat in for a backup 175g
DX Roc3 180g
6/10 KC Roc 176g
DX Eagle-X 167g
Lucid Felon 175g

At some point I would expand into carrying another judge, a star eagle, a thunderbird, a valk and a DX teebird as recommended by garb.

I've been itching to try and beat in my DX Roc3 and my flat top DX rancho to see if I can capture the same magical flight of the above KC roc - an alt bag gives me the perfect opportunity.

 

[Alexplz]

Looking at the following setup, moving some drivers around conceptually and considering picking up some discs just for the sake of unifying some mold lineups:

-Dagger 173-175g- putting putter, in M or H depending on the outside temp
-Dagger 175g- a beat up backup Zero Hard for glidier putts and throwing
-N Proxy 167g - neutral to US driving and approach putter
-N Envy 173g - stable driving putter
-ESP Zone 174g - OS approach, fast putter or slow mid

-Lucid Verdict 174g - OS mid, very nice to FH, good combo of glide, stability, and feel
-Bio Emac Truth 178g - stable/OS mid, again very nice to FH, just less OS
-ESP Comet 171g - manipulate on angles to flip to fade, or for a powered-down hyzer approach, or a big sweeping anny. I might throw in an X Comet and/or Z Comet, or maybe a slightly heavier ESP or Big Z if for some reason I'm not satisfied with this one.

-FAF 12x Champ Firebird 168g - wicked OS for utility shots like thumbers and FH rollers
-C FD3 171g - workable OS fairway
-Star Teebird - basically the 2nd run C FD I would look for if I wanted to bother to fill in the FD cycle
-C FD ~170-172g - considering adding this to bridge the gap between the teeb and the G FD. Could throw my star TL here too if I wanted
-G FD 170G - field tested this one, was throwing really nice flips to gentle fades with tons of glide. Like it, thinking that once it breaks in I will want something between it and the teeb.
-D FD ~171-175g - presently considering buying one online to beat into my utility roller and US disc. Right now this slot is filled by an underworld

-Star Wraith 168g - for FH distance and headwinds - considering picking up a fresh star or glow/MF soon to add to the cycle
-Terns - in stability from 168g champ to 168g star or pro - unadulterated max BH D in calm conditions

 

[Alexplz]

Looking at the following setup, moving some drivers around conceptually and considering picking up some discs just for the sake of unifying some mold lineups:

-Dagger 173-175g - putting putter, in M or H depending on the outside temp
-Dagger 175g - a beat up backup Zero Hard for glidier putts and throwing
-N Proxy 167g - neutral to US driving and approach putter
-N Envy 173g - stable driving putter
-ESP Zone 174g - OS approach, fast putter or slow mid

-Lucid Verdict 174g - OS mid, very nice to FH, good combo of glide, stability, and feel
-Z Comet 177+g - More stable Comet. For now I bumped the Truth to make way for a more robust Comet lineup, but the truth might come back and bump the Z Comet back out, or it might come back alongside the Z Comet.
-ESP Comet 171g - manipulate on angles to flip to fade, or for a powered-down hyzer approach, or a big sweeping anny. I might throw in an X Comet and/or Z Comet, or maybe a slightly heavier ESP or Big Z if for some reason I'm not satisfied with this one.
-X Comet 175g - more neutral finish than the ESP, will likely beat into an easy turnover mid slot

-FAF 12x Champ Firebird 168g - wicked OS for utility shots like thumbers and FH rollers
-C FD3 171g - workable OS fairway
-Star Teebird 168g - basically the 2nd run C FD I would look for if I wanted to bother to fill in the FD cycle
-C FD ~170-172g - considering adding this to bridge the gap between the teeb and the G FD. Could throw my star TL here too if I wanted
-G FD 170G - field tested this one, was throwing really nice flips to gentle fades with tons of glide. Like it, thinking that once it breaks in I will want something between it and the teeb.
-D FD ~171-175g - presently considering buying one online to beat into my utility roller and US disc. Right now this slot is filled by an underworld

-Glow Champ Wraith 172g - Shop didn't have any FDs at all so I picked up the next most wanted disc. I figure I'll mostly throw this into a screaming headwind BH or when I want a nice skip BH or FH
-Star Wraith 168g - for FH distance and BH headwinds - considering picking up a fresh star or glow/MF soon to add to the cycle
-Terns - in stability from 168g champ to 168g star or pro - unadulterated max BH D in calm conditions

 

[Alexplz]

Since last posting, I've had a few chilly rounds, I've considered my form a bit, and I've strayed further from the light of the Roc. I figure I should do a reset for 2018, disc down a bit and take the Terns out of the bag at least initially. I actually drew up a little graph to help visualize what kind of drivers I want to bag with no Terns around, and I found that I hit a distance plateau at speed 9. The faster I go, control is sacrificed with little to gain from added D. For this reason, I'm going to start 2018 throwing speed 9s again.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Fortresses - VIP (173g) and TP (169g) -

Not a big fan of the thunderbird or PD (yet), and I own these and like the sharp rim so why bother checking out the culverin, convict, longbowman, etc. A true 2cm speed 10, but oh well, I'll be throwing these on nasty hyzerbombs and FHs anyway.
​

Saint - GL 170g -

This will be my main distance driver for now over the typical champ or GStar Tern. Quite stable at my power level, lots of glide, controllable. If I end up picking up a thundy or PD I like over the fortresses, I'd probably throw valks in this slot to keep my distance suite consistent, just because I'm particular like that when it's not too impractical.
​

FD - G 170g -

I've never found a speed 9 that fits the slot underneath the saint stability - the X heat or a DX sidewinder comes close, but this FD flips to fade so effortlessly with very little sacrificed distance, it's a no-brainer.​

Underworld - VIP 170g -

Amazing disc, reliably understable right off the shelf in VIP plastic for rollers. Perfect speed and glide to take advantage of a tailwind... why throw a mamba or sidewinder/RR etc when I can rely on a speed 7 to do the same thing with comparable distance?​

Teebird3 - Metal Flake 175g -

I wanted something for forehand lasers, and a flat teeb is perfect for this. Happens to be a great all-around mold, can't complain. I do plan on grabbing a lighter, flatter one, but no biggie.
​

Firebird - FAF 12x champ 170g -

Pure OS utility. Thumbers, grenades, FH rollers, tricky flex shots, skips.
​

Verdict - Lucid 174g -

FH mid and complement to my Comets.​

Zone - ESP 174g -

FH approaches, OS complement to my verdict. Was throwing a Buzzz OS previously, but wanted more glide, so when the verdict came in, the zone did too for when I want something to just go short and fall out of the air.
​

Comets - Z (max wt) ESP (171g) and X (176g) -

I have settled on Comets as my mid of choice. I was obsessing too much over the particulars of the Roc cycle, fussing over levels of wear, worrying about losing them... forget it. A domey ESP Comet flies like a beat rancho off the shelf, so why not save myself the trouble?
​

Envy - Neutron 173g -

Stable/OS driving putter, popular for a reason. Flies like a more stable judge that dumps on target from 100 ft. Also nice to FH which is a bonus. Not married to the envy; if I lost it I would toss an aviar3 or something in the bag and not bat an eye.​

Daggers - Hard and Medium 171-175g -

I use freshies for putting in the circle and the more seasoned ones for throwing and long putts. For a while I was contemplating throwing a 6/10 judge too for floaty approaches and long putts, but I realized there was nothing wrong with throwing the dagger - sure they are deep with a big chubby shoulder, but so is the nova. They fly like a stable, glidey lid, which is exactly what I was looking for alongside the envy.
​

... and that's that. 15 pieces in total, which is 4-6 less than I would typically bag with Terns. :hfive:

I am aware that my drivers follow a bit of a strange curve where the stable stuff starts at speed 10, and it slopes down from there to speed 7 with the FD/underworld. It's more of a stylistic choice than anything really. However, if my form improves in 2018 I would probably grow out of saints/FDs/underworlds quickly, which I guess is a good problem to have...

 

[Alexplz]

FD3 - C 172g -

Decided to toss this in next to the thundy. I thought it myself it would be nice to have a more workable firebird, or a faster banshee... :thmbup:
​

Thunderbird - Pro 171g -

Decided to pick up a pro thunderbird to work in. Decided I liked the sound of sticking with the true speed-9s so the fortresses are out... for now. Champ 3x thundie on deck to cycle in.
​

Valkyrie - Pro 168g -

Was thinking of bagging a line of champ/star/pro valks, but decided I liked the idea of cycling pro thunderbirds. Interested to see how this beats in, and whether or not it would make me reconsider bagging the FD and underworld alongside it. Saint is out.
​

 

[Alexplz]

Bag update for start of season. I've been able to play more quick rounds than I usually get to as I have gone a couple times on lunch to the local course. Still attempting to stick with more reasonable speed drivers for now. I might expand into Terns later in the season and maybe switch the speed-9 stuff to an Innova-molded lineup, including PDs, thundies, valks and SWs.

Wraith - Star 169g

Still the biggest FH bang for my buck - not worried about discing down for FH, just want to go far, straight and right sometimes. I would also throw this into a headwind to potentially see full flight from my backhand.​

Culverin - GL 171g

Figured I'd try the culv alongside the saint, as as far as I'm concerned the wing and sharp edge seems more similar to the saint than the saint pro does. I would be throwing a thunderbird here if I wanted to bag a distance lineup including valks or sidewinders, which is a definite possibility for the future.​

Saint - GL 171g

This will be my main distance driver for now over the typical champ or GStar Tern. Quite stable at my power level, lots of glide, controllable. If I end up picking up a thundy or PD I like over the fortresses, I'd probably throw valks in this slot to keep my distance suite consistent, just because I'm particular like that when it's not too impractical.
​

Hatchet - GL 171g

Picked up the Hatchet, and for a while I didn't throw it in this slot because I thought the wing was actually more narrow, closer to teebird-width. Actually compared and measured, found that this is a true speed-9 disc with similar rim width to the saint, valk, etc. Haven't thrown it yet but hope that it will finally fill the slot of less-stable saint in trilogy plastic.​

Underworld - VIP 170g

Utility understable driver for rollers and tailwinds mostly. One of the few premium plastic discs I've ever found to be truly understable off the shelf.​

FD3 - C line 171g

Workable OS fairway, fine for all manner of overhands and FH rollers, too. Would like to try a star firebird here.​

Servo - Neutron 170g

Picked this up as a slow fairway to complement my leopards - this one flies incredibly straight with a fade on FH rips in the woods. Can it be the case that GYRO™ is really more than just snake oil and pixie dust?​

Leopard - Pro 167g

I like slow fairways, what can I say? And as far as I'm concerned the Leo is the kind of slow fairways. Intend to work this one in to controllably flippy and throw in a premium plastic leo.
​

Rocs - DX and KC 171-174g

I figure I'll try to start a Roc cycle again this year, this time will a better, more carefree attitude. I'll fill gaps with appropriate Comets and let my fresh rocs season naturally, starting with DX and moving to KC.​

Comet - ESP 171g

I've as a part of the Roc cycle I've decided bookending with a squirrely Comet is the way to go so I don't have to worry about A. beating up a Roc so much and B. losing a perfectly beat understable Roc. If I can get a roc to this level of understability, great, I've shelve this for a while until I lose said roc or it leaves the sweet spot.​

Harp - Hard 175g

Used to throw Zones, nothing wrong with them, but I liked the idea of a slightly deeper option in the Zero plastic. I may cycle in another hard harp and allow this one to kick out or overlap the Shield; we shall see. Thrown on FH chip shots.​

Shield - TP 174g

Picked this up as a standalone driving putter. I wanted something faster and more wind resistant to drive than a dagger, but more of an old-school style chubby putter than a beat up harp. Flies straight to fade, slightly beefier than a judge. Also, feels remarkably good in my hand. Finally, worth noting that if you look close, there is a very subtle bead... I understand the Shield is advertised and considered to be non-beaded, but I would call it more of a hybrid.​

Pure - GL 175g

Wanted a premium plastic neutral putter to go with the Shield rather than fussing with cycling in a base plastic driving putter. My seasoned throwing dagger is for shorter ups.​

Daggers - Hard and Medium 171-175g

I use freshies for putting in the circle and the more seasoned ones for throwing and long putts. For a while I was contemplating throwing a 6/10 judge too for floaty approaches and long putts, but I realized there was nothing wrong with throwing the dagger - sure they are deep with a big chubby shoulder, but so is the nova. They fly like a stable, glidey lid, which is exactly what I was looking for on precarious ups.
​

Still under 20 discs I believe, which is dope. I will say, putting with a Dagger and refusing to drive with it really bloats my number of putters and molds. Oh well. opcorn:

 

[jmdaire27]

Bag update for start of season. I've been able to play more quick rounds than I usually get to as I have gone a couple times on lunch to the local course. Still attempting to stick with more reasonable speed drivers for now. I might expand into Terns later in the season and maybe switch the speed-9 stuff to an Innova-molded lineup, including PDs, thundies, valks and SWs.

Wraith - Star 169g

Still the biggest FH bang for my buck - not worried about discing down for FH, just want to go far, straight and right sometimes. I would also throw this into a headwind to potentially see full flight from my backhand.​

Culverin - GL 171g

Figured I'd try the culv alongside the saint, as as far as I'm concerned the wing and sharp edge seems more similar to the saint than the saint pro does. I would be throwing a thunderbird here if I wanted to bag a distance lineup including valks or sidewinders, which is a definite possibility for the future.​

Saint - GL 171g

This will be my main distance driver for now over the typical champ or GStar Tern. Quite stable at my power level, lots of glide, controllable. If I end up picking up a thundy or PD I like over the fortresses, I'd probably throw valks in this slot to keep my distance suite consistent, just because I'm particular like that when it's not too impractical.
​

Hatchet - GL 171g

Picked up the Hatchet, and for a while I didn't throw it in this slot because I thought the wing was actually more narrow, closer to teebird-width. Actually compared and measured, found that this is a true speed-9 disc with similar rim width to the saint, valk, etc. Haven't thrown it yet but hope that it will finally fill the slot of less-stable saint in trilogy plastic.​

Underworld - VIP 170g

Utility understable driver for rollers and tailwinds mostly. One of the few premium plastic discs I've ever found to be truly understable off the shelf.​

FD3 - C line 171g

Workable OS fairway, fine for all manner of overhands and FH rollers, too. Would like to try a star firebird here.​

Servo - Neutron 170g

Picked this up as a slow fairway to complement my leopards - this one flies incredibly straight with a fade on FH rips in the woods. Can it be the case that GYRO™ is really more than just snake oil and pixie dust?​

Leopard - Pro 167g

I like slow fairways, what can I say? And as far as I'm concerned the Leo is the kind of slow fairways. Intend to work this one in to controllably flippy and throw in a premium plastic leo.
​

Rocs - DX and KC 171-174g

I figure I'll try to start a Roc cycle again this year, this time will a better, more carefree attitude. I'll fill gaps with appropriate Comets and let my fresh rocs season naturally, starting with DX and moving to KC.​

Comet - ESP 171g

I've as a part of the Roc cycle I've decided bookending with a squirrely Comet is the way to go so I don't have to worry about A. beating up a Roc so much and B. losing a perfectly beat understable Roc. If I can get a roc to this level of understability, great, I've shelve this for a while until I lose said roc or it leaves the sweet spot.​

Harp - Hard 175g

Used to throw Zones, nothing wrong with them, but I liked the idea of a slightly deeper option in the Zero plastic. I may cycle in another hard harp and allow this one to kick out or overlap the Shield; we shall see. Thrown on FH chip shots.​

Shield - TP 174g

Picked this up as a standalone driving putter. I wanted something faster and more wind resistant to drive than a dagger, but more of an old-school style chubby putter than a beat up harp. Flies straight to fade, slightly beefier than a judge. Also, feels remarkably good in my hand. Finally, worth noting that if you look close, there is a very subtle bead... I understand the Shield is advertised and considered to be non-beaded, but I would call it more of a hybrid.​

Pure - GL 175g

Wanted a premium plastic neutral putter to go with the Shield rather than fussing with cycling in a base plastic driving putter. My seasoned throwing dagger is for shorter ups.​

Daggers - Hard and Medium 171-175g

I use freshies for putting in the circle and the more seasoned ones for throwing and long putts. For a while I was contemplating throwing a 6/10 judge too for floaty approaches and long putts, but I realized there was nothing wrong with throwing the dagger - sure they are deep with a big chubby shoulder, but so is the nova. They fly like a stable, glidey lid, which is exactly what I was looking for on precarious ups.
​

Still under 20 discs I believe, which is dope. I will say, putting with a Dagger and refusing to drive with it really bloats my number of putters and molds. Oh well. opcorn:

I feel ya with the putting only putters. I putt with Judges, but throw Envies and a Zone. I prefer working angles with an Envy!

 

[elmexdela]

you need a truthskie broskie