Backhand: Reach Back vs "Moving Around the Disc" (McBeth Style)

[iacas]

Did some work with this yesterday and after tweaking the motion holy cow was I able to generate a ton of snap and power even from a standstill. When I threw my putters on drives they were going a good 20 ft further than normal.

How can you "work around the disc" from a standstill?

 

[Joemic]

I decided to put a "Nate Doss-esque" form into practice during league rounds tonight, and it went really well for the most part! The whole moving around the disc idea was escaping me this whole time, but I watched a bunch of videos and read the DGR links that sidewinder posted...huge help! I could feel a lot more snap on my throws and I think I got a lot more distance than I have in the past. Gotta work on the accuracy still (hit some early trees), but I'm happy with the progress!

Thanks ya'll :thmbup:

 

[OKNate]

watch will's disc from the 14 second mark to the 16 second mark. It stays in the same spot in the frame while his body/arm moves into position.

This is actually a very specific point i use when teaching beginners how to drive. I actually hold there disc stationary and as tight as i can with one hand while they hold it and do their steps with without the disc moving. By the time their plant foot is down and loaded ready to pivot, their arm is at the proper reach back position without the disc moving an inch from when they started the first step.

hope that makes sense. Maybe i'll get a video of that next week.

I believe Will is definitely "reaching back" in the sense. But his body moving forward + moving disc backward is offsetting the movement of the disc. Even in Wills instructional driving video he talks of reaching back

 

[Kenny53691]

I've had three "ah ha" moments over the years improving my driving.

1) Get my off arm out of the way (used to use both arms during start of reachback) to allow full rotation
2) Power grip (instead of a two finger grip) to increase control and accuracy
3) Walk around disc (instead of swinging arm back) allowed for deeper reachback and more control

I'm still working on #2 and plan on working on #3. I can't wait to see the improvments.....

 

[jrawk]

I believe Will is definitely "reaching back" in the sense. But his body moving forward + moving disc backward is offsetting the movement of the disc. Even in Wills instructional driving video he talks of reaching back

Yes, but in essance he is holding his disc stationairy in one position. His arm needs to extend as his body moves forward while that disc stays in one spot. "reachback" as a term is best applied during stand-still throwing and is synonomous to ball-golf backswing, where in ball golf every swing is made from stand still. That is why we are comparing "reachback" vs "Moving around the disc" as the thread title implies.

 

[OKNate]

Well then isn't it just "tomato vs tomatoe" for terminology. He is still reaching back as if he were doing a planted standstill shot. Just his body moving forward is visually making the disc look like it's in one place. This 'moving around the disc' bit you guys are all talking about makes next to zero sense to me. Watching some guy huck discs using a flex S curve stating they are 450' didn't really do anything eye opening. nor the two links. Nothing people are showing on video looks like anything other than a guy throwing like any other guy. But at the same time i'm not really trying to figure it out as i dont really have any distance issues with driving.

 

[Frolfington]

This 'moving around the disc' bit you guys are all talking about makes next to zero sense to me. Watching some guy huck discs using a flex S curve stating they are 450' didn't really do anything eye opening. nor the two links. Nothing people are showing on video looks like anything other than a guy throwing like any other guy. But at the same time i'm not really trying to figure it out as i dont really have any distance issues with driving.

So you have nothing useful to contribute, awesome! :clap:

 

[sidewinder22]

Well then isn't it just "tomato vs tomatoe" for terminology. He is still reaching back as if he were doing a planted standstill shot. Just his body moving forward is visually making the disc look like it's in one place. This 'moving around the disc' bit you guys are all talking about makes next to zero sense to me. But at the same time i'm not really trying to figure it out as i dont really have any distance issues with driving.

When you tell someone to reachback, what do they do? They bring/move the disc back with their arm. Now if you leave the disc in place and move your body around the disc you have a different way of loading.

Yes Will's body is moving forward, but the disc is not really moving, he turns his body and unfolds his arm to keep the disc in place as he moves forward.

Sorry this doesn't make any sense to you, and you apparently have perfect form already.

 

[Kodachrome]

it's a way of thinking about the problem that helps us understand it better.

since you already understand it, i guess you don't need to worry about trolling the thread.

 

[OKNate]

I'm not trying to Troll the thread at all. I'm genuinely curious about this magical "move around the disc" bit that has recently come up. Even Schusterick says he REACHES BACK. not leaves the disc there while his body moves forward. And i never said i had perfect form. I just said i had no issues with distance.

 

[A rod]

I'm not trying to Troll the thread at all. I'm genuinely curious about this magical "move around the disc" bit that has recently come up. Even Schusterick says he REACHES BACK. not leaves the disc there while his body moves forward. And i never said i had perfect form. I just said i had no issues with distance.

its just a way of building leverage. You can try it yourself by holding onto a pole, or door frame and walking through your x step. Its worked well for me in not opening my hips too early.

 

[Kodachrome]

it's not magical; sorry, i shouldn't have jumped at you like that.

basically watching all the videos made me think if i reached waaaaay back i'd get what i need to get. this other way of thinking helped me envision how to approach a throw by technically "reaching back" while maintaining the tight stance needed to throw the hips through. it focuses more on what you're doing with your body than what you're doing with your arm which simplifies things so much for people still trying to nail down that weight shift and form.

 

[OKNate]

When i watch the guys you mentioned that 'move around the disc' i see nothing out of the ordinary as far as reachback... except for Feldberg. But Feldy has a truly unique driving style compared to commonly taught practice. If you watch McBeth do monster drivers on courses in slow-mo, he most definitely reaches back far with his weight shift. Maybe some day i'll be able to make a video of how i throw and i can be educated a bit on what form i use

 

[zj1002]

Its really just another way to look at things. People are all different so explaining it different ways works for some. There is no right or wrong way to "reach back"

Some people physically reach back more, some turn their shoulders more, some swing their arms into it more. Its just up to the person

 

[sidewinder22]

Do not try and bend the spoon.
That's impossible.
Instead... only try to realize the truth.
There is no spoon.
Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

 

[DiscinFiend]

Do not try and bend the spoon.
That's impossible.
Instead... only try to realize the truth.
There is no spoon.
Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

:thmbup: Great quote & great movie series

 

[7ontheline]

When you tell someone to reachback, what do they do? They bring/move the disc back with their arm. Now if you leave the disc in place and move your body around the disc you have a different way of loading.

Yes Will's body is moving forward, but the disc is not really moving, he turns his body and unfolds his arm to keep the disc in place as he moves forward.

Its been a while since I've worked on distance during my practice sessions but last weekend's tourney showed that I'm losing the distance advantage I once had. I've always struggled with reaching back/backswing and relied more on long arms and release angles. I had an hour early this morning for some distance work without a lot of success. I read this thread about moving around and keeping the disc spatially steady and after another hour this evening was back to half hitting it again. Thanks for your insight on using the body to address the line and bhadella's advise on getting the off hand out of the way freeing up more core rotation. I noticed that without all the thoughts of what I should be doing to get more reachback as well as thinking about the line I want it hit I was able to focus my attention on my grip and release angle. Thanks!!

 

[gaerith2]

I have been trying to regain my D over the last two years and watching this video I notice that McBeth has a hitch in his pull through that brings the disc closer to his chest. Nate Doss does the same thing. My question is, is this what is meant by moving around the disc? I know it's the elbow bend, but McBeth's is very pronounced.

 

[hendryxdisc]

Both throw styles work well, I believe a large key in the missing distance for some of you fellas is not what your upper body is doing but what your lower body is doing. The main difference between the two styles is the "move around the disc" style is more dynamic. The thrower uses fewer more compact movements with the legs, watch the videos again Paul and Barry keep their heads at the same level the entire time. While the "reach back" employed by Schusterick uses longer strides and has a more pronounced "up down" movement. I say pick which ever style you want for the waist up just lead with your dominant shoulder. But really focus on keeping your lower body in contact with your upper body. The best examples I find of this are Ken Climo and Michael Johansen, they both have their own unique styles but what they both do in common is have light feet and really emphasize the turn with their hips to make their body unwind from the ground up. You can see this because they both swing their follow through leg all the way around towards the front of the tee and the pin every throw(especially during drives).

In this clip you can see Kenny from a lot of different angles and you see his reach bag only goes as far as his left hip but he leads with the shoulder and uses his legs well.

Link 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-zhfKuCn_Y

In this link MJ chews up the course as usual haha but you can see that he is light on his toes and really works from the ground up

Link 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrW91IXxRVA

 

[hendryxdisc]

Sorry for the double post ran out of editing time, here is another link of a lot of top pros you can see that they are vary greatly with their upper body especially Val Jenkins and Garrett Gurthie. But most of their lower bodies are similar; light feet, compact hip movement and leg follow through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LQy1X8taA