Bad/Homer Course Reviews

[DiscGolfCraig]

The color assigned to the tees in the hole info is red. There is a standard for tee colors.

Where are you seeing anything that the course has short/red tees? That's what I'm confused about. There weren't any short tees when I played there in 6/18. Maybe there are some now. From looking at the course pictures on this site(I don't remember from when I played), I only see blue on the tee signs.

 

[dreadlock86]

The color assigned to the tees in the hole info is red. There is a standard for tee colors.

there is a standard for par too, that doesn't mean everyone follows it

i've played numerous courses with blue short tees and white or red long tees. plus all the courses where any given set of tees don't adhere to one level but instead cater to the "best" or most exciting tee shot on that particular fairway.

to just say "there's a standard for that" doesn't really address reality

 

[wolfhaley]

The color assigned to the tees in the hole info is red. There is a standard for tee colors.

Rollin Ridge has black, orange and red. I think reds are the shorts. Blacks are for sure the longs.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I wish parks, course designers, installers, etc. We're all just kind of agree to a color standard for intended challenge/skill level.

To the best of my knowledge the most widely "accepted" convention is:
Rec = red
Int = white
Adv = blue
Pro = gold

... but it's not uncommon to see other colors, or white shorts and red longs, and other confusing things.

 

[ejvogie]

Parks Department, "Sure, we can make the tee signs."

Designer, "OK, but color standar..."

Parks, "We'll. Make. The signs."

 

[Discette]

I wish parks, course designers, installers, etc. We're all just kind of agree to a color standard for intended challenge/skill level.

To the best of my knowledge the most widely "accepted" convention is:
Rec = red
Int = white
Adv = blue
Pro = gold

... but it's not uncommon to see other colors, or white shorts and red longs, and other confusing things.

Sometimes there are other considerations when choosing colors for layouts.

Shelton Springs DGC uses Red and Black tees which happen to be the colors of the High School located next to the disc golf course. The Red tees were made with red concrete.

 

[ohtobediscing]

I guess the directional nature of the baskets affects all players relatively equally though. If you're playing with a group of similarly skilled players, the first time or two through the course luck is going to be the determining factor in who wins. After that though it's going to be more about who can execute specific shots for specific holes. My usual mentality is "get it close, doesn't matter where, sink you putt and keep walking. I'd actually really love to have a course like this near me as it would force me to develop an aspect of my game I don't normally give much thought to.

An irony about this whole Lake Stevens baskets bit is that my closest local course, Brickyard Bayou, is a short course technical gem with many pocket greens, that allow only one approach direction. I guess I remember Lake Stevens baskets with chagrin because I was still in my early years of throwing true golf discs, and it was frustrating not being able to place the disc exactly where I wanted (like I could with an ultimate lid).

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm not sure it matters too much what color scheme is used for the name of the course, color of tee markers or tee signs. But identifying the color level of the course layout on the tee signs such as Blue Par 4 or Red Par 5 would be helpful if those colors are not already being used in the color scheme for the markers.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

I'm not sure it matters too much what color scheme is used for the name of the course, color of tee markers or tee signs. But identifying the color level of the course layout on the tee signs such as Blue Par 4 or Red Par 5 would be helpful if those colors are not already being used in the color scheme for the markers.

Terminology would be a lot easier than a color scheme for tees/course length. Golf has it right in this sense.

It seems it became a mandate a whole lot of courses wouldn't be installed as local p& r departments wouldn't want to deal with the hassle.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Terminology would be a lot easier than a color scheme for tees/course length. Golf has it right in this sense.

Not sure what you mean by their terminology having right?

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Not sure what you mean by their terminology having right?

Pro tees, mens, ladies/shorts, juniors. There isn't a doubt about the lengths/challenge of each.

Getting back to the issue with a red tee at Panther Creek, a player can tell that a 9600-foot, extremely hill course isn't an intermediate/900-level layout.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Pro tees, mens, ladies/shorts, juniors. There isn't a doubt about the lengths/challenge of each.

Getting back to the issue with a red tee at Panther Creek, a player can tell that a 9600-foot, extremely hill course isn't an intermediate/900-level layout.

Those ball golf terms are outdated but we understand they are stuck with tradition. I and several other designers rejected the term women's or junior tees even when I started designing with Steady Ed's help in 1989. We also tried to scrap the words Pro and Am for tees, using Tournament, Competitive and Recreational until shifting to colors once the ratings system was developed in the late 90s. Our DGCD group developed the current PDGA color/skill level scheme in the early 2000s which parallels a common ball golf color/skill scheme without using their gender/age label names.

The PDGA division names should have transitioned to colors also but DG has also gotten stuck in the outdated traditional names where the Rec and Novice titles constantly annoy players. Colors are gender neutral, totally based on skill. The fact that new players won't initially know the color scheme doesn't matter. They will learn it soon enough if they continue to get serious about playing whether recreationally or advancing into competitions.

 

[armiller]

The only clear terminology is "long" or "short" tee (or "middle", etc.) "Junior" or something can clarify for additional, even shorter tees.

As far as colors, we all get used to certain color schemes based on places we play. E.g. Houck courses with Red=short, Blue=long, White=intermediate, Gold=longer long (that may not always be available) are well known and may thus set some kind of standard.

But even here in Pittsburgh, Deer Lakes and Moraine are both top 20 courses on DGCR, maintained somewhat by the same Pittsburgh DG association, and don't bother using the same scheme. Deer Lakes uses the Houck-esque Blue-White-Red, while Moraine uses Gold-Blue-Red. I don't see that as a knock on either, though I did get confused when registering for a tournament, when I was confused about which layout was "blue."

Just make sure you stay consistent within the same course, and you'll have no complaints from me.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The only clear terminology is "long" or "short" tee (or "middle", etc.) "Junior" or something can clarify for additional, even shorter tees.

As far as colors, we all get used to certain color schemes based on places we play. E.g. Houck courses with Red=short, Blue=long, White=intermediate, Gold=longer long (that may not always be available) are well known and may thus set some kind of standard.

But even here in Pittsburgh, Deer Lakes and Moraine are both top 20 courses on DGCR, maintained somewhat by the same Pittsburgh DG association, and don't bother using the same scheme. Deer Lakes uses the Houck-esque Blue-White-Red, while Moraine uses Gold-Blue-Red. I don't see that as a knock on either, though I did get confused when registering for a tournament, when I was confused about which layout was "blue."

Just make sure you stay consistent within the same course, and you'll have no complaints from me.

As Houck was the fifth member of the DGCD in 1995, he has been directly involved in developing the DGCD color scheme eventually adopted by the PDGA. Those J. Gary (also a longtime DGCD member) courses mentioned above use our color/skill scheme: Gold 1000 rated, Blue 950 rated, White 900 rated, Red 850. When someone indicates it's a Blue level course, it just means the longest set of tees are for Blue level. Moraine is a Gold level course with tees for Blue and Red skill levels. Point being that the terms "long" and "short" tees are still insufficient to indicate the intended skill level. The long tees on a short course may be Red level for instance with even shorter ones at Green level.

 

[armiller]

I never had any idea there was supposed to be so much to it. So I guess that means the blues at Moraine are supposed to be roughly equivalent in challenge to the blues at Deer Lakes?

I don't see that it matters much. At least it doesn't matter to me. But I guess I should have just stayed out of this discussion lol. But I do appreciate some edumucation about the back story on these things.

But I hope course designers spend zero energy on this aspect of design, instead continuing to design good holes. Then assign whatever rainbow of colors you want, I'll still enjoy your course.

 

[wolfhaley]

I never realized that either. Most places I've played that had multiple tees weren't even color coordinated. It makes more sense now for the ones that were.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I never had any idea there was supposed to be so much to it. So I guess that means the blues at Moraine are supposed to be roughly equivalent in challenge to the blues at Deer Lakes?

I don't see that it matters much. At least it doesn't matter to me. But I guess I should have just stayed out of this discussion lol. But I do appreciate some edumucation about the back story on these things.

But I hope course designers spend zero energy on this aspect of design, instead continuing to design good holes. Then assign whatever rainbow of colors you want, I'll still enjoy your course.

The goodness of a hole depends on the skill level it's designed for. This is at the root of quality course design. State what skill level you're designing for then prove it by testing the design and tweaking it where needed. Otherwise, you're just putting baskets and tees where you think they look cool and/or challenge players of an unspecified skill level. The thing is, if the terrain is already cool, a rookie designer can still produce a design that players will like, but perhaps missing out on a design targeted to a skill level that's even better.

The aesthetics of a hole can be the same from a tee 100 feet longer, straight back from another tee but each tee is not as good as the other depending on your skill level. Many players don't recognize what a good designer did to get the length, fairway width and shot shape(s) correct, not just the look and left turn/right turn aspects of a design. Good hole designs many times will look "obvious" to players - as if anyone could have done it - when the reality behind the scenes is usually much more complex, especially in typical situations where the Park Department or course owner has additional constraints on the design.

 

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by thrembo
Someone needs to take the Steve West "What Is Par" class.

or some "what is par?" class with a different instructor...

Did someone say par? I volunteer!

What is Par?

 

[Olorin]

or some "what is par?" class with a different instructor...

Lesson 1:
Close Range Par

Extra course reading: Par Encyclopedia

 

[brutalbrutus]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=10878&mode=rev

6 holes... 1100ft... wide open.... "I'll give it a 5 because my 3yrd old son can play it!"