"Bit of a Lazy Mark Job by ..."

[JoakimBL]

It looked like the disc was too close to the pole to mark with a mini. In that case, is there a way to legally put the same disc in? Could you take an unplayable lie mark directly back in that situation?

I would use 803.02 B as the closest applicable rule:

If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

Obviously, the disc is not below/above the playing surface in this scenario, and you are not prevented from taking a stance, but it does create a precedent that you can mark behind a solid obstacle (the pole)

 

[araytx]

Rules are rules... but let's be realistic...would anyone....ever......make the call in that situation?

Not if it were the first time so saw it, but I would give the private soft warning and tell him what he did wrong. I don't assume that players know.

 

[robdeforge]

It was literally under the basket. If you can't see that glaring detail and shrug off whatever minuscule perceived slight you may have otherwise felt, I feel immensely sorry for you as a person.

this is my favorite defense:
"it literally doesn't matter, why are you making such a big deal??"

to which I would say: "if it really doesn't matter one way or the other, it shouldn't be hard to do it correctly and be done with it"

 

[DiscFifty]

Rules are rules... but let's be realistic...would anyone....ever......make the call in that situation?

Not if it were the first time so saw it, but I would give the private soft warning and tell him what he did wrong. I don't assume that players know.

I stand corrected.

 

[DoWork]

this is my favorite defense:
"it literally doesn't matter, why are you making such a big deal??"

to which I would say: "if it really doesn't matter one way or the other, it shouldn't be hard to do it correctly and be done with it"

Agreed in theory.

In reality though, this molecule of minutia has been taken to a whole new galaxy of douchiness, simply because people are bored and want to grind whatever axe they come across, no matter how inconsequential it may be. Get over yourselves, throw some plastic and move on with your life. Nobody cares. Period. #cheers

 

[araytx]

I stand corrected.

No actually, you're right. Even in my response, I don't make that call.

 

[robdeforge]

molecule of minutia

.... what does that even mean?

the player being discussed didn't follow the rules in a very obvious way. he should have been warned. beginning and end of discussion.

#cheers

 

[Putt for D'oh]

.... what does that even mean?

the player being discussed didn't follow the rules in a very obvious way. he should have been warned. beginning and end of discussion.

#cheers

Which rules?

 

[JC17393]

Which rules?

The marking rule 802.06.B.

The marker is supposed to be placed "on the playing surface, touching the front of the thrown disc on the line of play". Technically speaking, the mini wasn't placed on the playing surface while touching the front of the disc on the line of play. It may have ended up on the playing surface and it may have ended up on the line of play (not so sure about that), but it was not placed there while the thrown disc was also there.

 

[AnttiM]

But can't the thrown disc be moved as much as necessary to enable marking the lie with a mini marker disc?

 

[Casey 1988]

Most of us carry an entire bag of discs with us. For drop ins like that, I have used a driver to drop in for the putt, so the "not having another disc to putt with" is a bad arguement. Any disc in your bag will work, and a lot easier than figuring out where you'd put your mini to mark it.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Yep I have used a different disc since the time I have had more then one disc.

 

[Casey 1988]

By the current rules the rest of the card committed a courtesy violation as they all had turned and walked away not watching the "throw" or mark.

Still wondering why Casey gets lambasted for being Casey and quoting old rules when the wording that would have made this mark clearly an infraction has been removed from the rules.

What I have done in this situation is well I always had more then one disc in a PDGA event so I just used a driver or a midrange when I only had one putter in my bag at that time. The putter disc was parked so I did not need a Putter to make the shot. The old rules were more clear, I agree on calling specific marking violations. In the most recent edition to the rules it was changed to the before 2006 version of marking making it harder in some instances to call a violation on Marking. PDGA should revise parts like this incident to make the Disc Golf game more professional or it will look casual when compared to most other disc sport contests other then Guts which is already more way more casual then Disc Golf.

 

[robdeforge]

Agreed in theory.

In reality though, this molecule of minutia has been taken to a whole new galaxy of douchiness, simply because people are bored and want to grind whatever axe they come across, no matter how inconsequential it may be. Get over yourselves, throw some plastic and move on with your life. Nobody cares. Period. #cheers

because I guess my last post got deleted? here's some information for you about marking the lie and whether this would have resulted in a penalty throw:

Marking the lie in a manner other than described above is a marking violation. A player receives a warning for the first marking violation. A player receives one penalty throw for each subsequent violation of any marking rule during the round.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80206

 

[AnttiM]

Another example: the disc lies on the center of the roof of the basket. How would you suggest it should be marked?

 

[robdeforge]

Another example: the disc lies on the center of the roof of the basket. How would you suggest it should be marked?

Good Q... if it's truly in the center, how does one determine the line of play?

 

[DoWork]

because I guess my last post got deleted? here's some information for you about marking the lie and whether this would have resulted in a penalty throw:


https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80206

... And as I said before, you'd need a cardmate to second it for that to matter at all. FYI even on the card in the OP, nobody cared- and there was money on the line.

I mean hey, if you want to be "that guy" go right ahead, but just because you can doesn't mean you should and that should be obvious in a sport like this. This will be my last post on the subject. Have a nice night.

 

[JC17393]

Another example: the disc lies on the center of the roof of the basket. How would you suggest it should be marked?

Does it really matter?

Since baskets are omni-directional, it wouldn't matter where it was marked or where the line of play was as long as the group agreed the mark was good. It's not as though there's an advantage to marking it on the east side of the basket as opposed to the west or the south or the south-southeast. It's the same look and the same drop-in no matter which side you're on. I'd mark against the pole on whatever side I was closest to when I walked up to the basket, then drop in from there.

 

[Steve West]

Does it really matter?

Since baskets are omni-directional, it wouldn't matter where it was marked or where the line of play was as long as the group agreed the mark was good. It's not as though there's an advantage to marking it on the east side of the basket as opposed to the west or the south or the south-southeast. It's the same look and the same drop-in no matter which side you're on. I'd mark against the pole on whatever side I was closest to when I walked up to the basket, then drop in from there.

If it is exactly centered it doesn't matter.

However, if the disc was a little off-center the combination of:

The line of play is the imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through and beyond the center of the marker disc.

plus:

If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from [...] marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

gives an answer: Place the marker disc against the pole on the side where the center of the disc is.

Going back to exactly centered on top, place the marker against the pole on any side and then - since it is not clear where the line of play is - no one can say you "clearly" did not mark it on the LOP, so the call cannot be made.

As to the original situation: When the disc is on the ground up against the pole and you want to use the thrown disc, you place the mini up against the pole on the same side as the thrown disc.

Note that every throw must be made from behind a marker (or from a tee pad or drop zone). So make sure to place a mini anytime you decide not to use the thrown disc as a marker. Never throw from naked ground.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

As to the original situation: When the disc is on the ground up against the pole and you want to use the thrown disc, you place the mini up against the pole on the same side as the thrown disc.

So, you are saying to prop the mini up against the pole? Or say tree trunk or vertical-ish rock face which may be a much more common scenario where one would feel the need to use the previously thrown disc. If you place the mini more upright than flat and when picking up the thrown disc the mini rolls away, do you then replace it flat on the playing surface where it was or prop it up against the pole/tree/rock?

Because we have examples of two totally different pros (one being Steve Rico whom I thought has a decent reputation for being a rules follower) at two different events marking in near the same way it makes me think this is a preferred way. And that the wording that has been removed in the last two revisions.

Placing the mini on the disc/above the playing surface and up against the obstacle, then removing the thrown disc in a manner the mini stays on the playing surface up against the obstacle. The whole stink in this thread came from the announcers reaction "whoa a bit of a lazy mark job" NOT when he placed the mini and slid it off the disc, but when he walked up and threw the mini down. After that action/reaction he did bend down and place the mini.

Unless per rules the correct placement of the mini is wedged between the front of the disc and the obstacle, I would conceded the warning but as the rules currently read the method to mark this lie seems correct. And again question is if the mini is leaning on the obstacle and rolls away when you retrieve the disc do you replace it leaning against the obstacle or flat on the playing surface touching the obstacle as the marker ended up in the two examples in this thread?

 

[robdeforge]

... And as I said before, you'd need a cardmate to second it for that to matter at all. FYI even on the card in the OP, nobody cared- and there was money on the line.

I mean hey, if you want to be "that guy" go right ahead, but just because you can doesn't mean you should and that should be obvious in a sport like this. This will be my last post on the subject. Have a nice night.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80102

A warning is the initial advisement a player is given for violating certain rules; subsequent violations of the rule incur penalty throws. A call for a rules violation that results in a warning does not need to be confirmed to be enforced. Warnings do not carry over from one round to the next, nor to a playoff.

emphasis mine. you have a good one as well