- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,856
What word would you use to limit the rule to only physical devices that are not part of the player's body?
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Can a player ask a spectator/fan to rattle the chains?
- Thread starter BogeyNoMore
- Start date
What word would you use to limit the rule to only physical devices that are not part of the player's body?
warobert
Eagle Member
Oh come on, the PDGA rules are not worded nearly tight enough for this level of rules lawyering.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
I can still do the wet the finger down in mouth then gauge the wind, no device other then using my own body. Otherwise then every throw I make with my own hands is an assisted throw as I am using my own body as the device and I need to give a 1+ to every stroke I throw for each hole.
This is what I think of some getting too technical on the sport. :gross: :gross:
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,812
Yeah, words =/= "device". Nice try.
Actually everything is a device, he's right. Leave those discs home next round - they make the game too easy.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
So, according to Chuck, all four players should be been given a penalty after the "Star Birdie" chain rattling at konopiste?...
Yup. And according to SW everyone who's ever played should be given a penalty on every throw for using their eyes.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,856
That's why "according to" ultimately doesn't mean a thing unless it is followed by "the Tournament Director".
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
You mean "according to the rules as commented on by Chuck." The rules generally tell players "Don't touch" like a sign in a china shop. It's more complicated to write a rule to allow all of the possible exceptions where you have to answer "What about this?" or "What about this?" versus relying on seemingly reasonable situational judgments (but whose reason?) where a particular action like "ringing the chains" isn't out of step with other ways players are allowed to discover where the target is located.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
I have always thought of the rules in a fashion of "if it is not proscribed it is permitted". IMO extrapolating things you CANNOT do from the written rules as opposed to extrapolating things you CAN do steps into the realm of legislating things yourself which is not where I believe we want to go.
wow...after reading through this thread, I still don't know. Can I have someone rattle the chains for me or not? Because there is no doubt it's a directional aid when you're stuck behind thick brush, trees, etc, and it could save a stroke from having to re-tee or throw from a previous lie.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,856
"Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed." Rattling the chains is not placing an object.
The only possible rule that might be specifically violated is "A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, [with some exceptions]". If the chains are in the same place they were before the rattling, have they actually been "moved"?
Of course, the action - while not illegal itself - may incidentally violate other rules like excessive time, or distracting other players, or interference if a throw hits the hand shaking the chains.
I'd say: Don't ask for it. It's kind of an imposition, so it's not something we want to become a common part of the game. But, if you do, make an appeal if your group gives you a violation.
Zanguini
Birdie Member
If a disc hits a tree in a forest and no one is around to see it... Did you shank your drive?
Why would the group give a violation for asking to have the chains rattled? That's not a violation of any rule (or "logical" extension of any rule in the book). If the group feels that rattling the chains is against the rules, all they have to do is say no.
As for it not being something we want to become part of the game...too late. The occasion that inspired the thread did not happen out of the blue. It wasn't the first time someone has asked for help locating the basket from a blind position and certainly not the first time that the response was to rattle the chains of the basket. It's a practice that's been going on since the pole hole target was invented, I imagine.
The answer to the question posed by the OP is yes, a player can ask someone to rattle the chains. The answer to the follow up is that no, there is no rule barring someone from rattling the chains for that player. Everything else in the thread is speculation and wishful thinking.
Not sure if I still shanked it but I know i will still have to spend 20 mins finding it
The player needs to know where the basket is to take a legal stance. If the other players on the card refuses to help, and they are not in a position to call a potential stance violation, I think I would give them all a curtesy violation for that.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,782
FYI - TD didn't have a problem with chain rattling.
