Casual players on course during tournament.

[phantom51]

This weekend, I played in the 2015 Frostbreaker tournament out at Shawnee Mission Park DGC. Three times during my rounds, my scorecard group and I encountered casual players trying to get a round in. We politely informed them of the fact that there was a PDGA tournament occurring throughout the weekend. We even pointed out the posted signs near one of the course's parking lots indicating that the course was being used for a special event (which was placed several weeks in advanced to notify people).

My question is, how best to handle this? This was my third tournament, I play in Recreational and the other three players on my first card were in their 1st tournament experience. They were all looking at me for rule clarification and advice.

Now honestly, I could care less about casuals as long as they don't interfere. My second problem came in the 2nd round. We witnessed two teenage girls throwing their drives towards the group ahead of us as we came around a hill. When we approached the tee where the stood in the fairway, we warned them not to throw since the group was still trying to clear the basket. After we explained what was going on, a group of guys approached wanting to play a casual round too. We told them about the tournament and after hearing their rude remarks, we returned to continue our round to them walking away trying still to distract our drives. As we got towards the basket, the whole crowd of them threw at us for laughs then grabbed their discs and left.

I never brought this up to the TD, nor did my group as we all agreed it wasn't worth it. But honestly, what would the best action be here? I don't mean to rant, but need to be educated in case this happens again.
Thanks!

 

[DiscFifty]

If the course is not officially closed and reserved, there's really nothing you can do except let them play, they have every right to be there and play as you do.

 

[AndyJB]

Anecdote: one tournament a few years back we had a group show up trying to play a round about half an hour before start time. We explained what was going on and casually mentioned that there was still time to sign up if they so desired. Two took us up on the offer and seemed to have a pretty good time. One of them I've seen at a few events since.

But DiscFifty is right: if the course isn't reserved, they can play. Just be polite and explain what's going on Most people people are pretty cool with it and will find somewhere to play. It also helps to suggest other courses nearby. I'll even suggest DGCR to them so they can find a new course.

However, if the course IS reserved I find people to be less reasonable, for some reason. Just kill them with kindness and it's really all you can do. Jerks will be jerks, and good people will understand and move on.

 

[krupicka]

Usually we warn them that the course is full, they will be waiting on every hole, and it will be a 3-4 hour round. Often times if they start, they give up in a hole or two.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Usually we warn them that the course is full, they will be waiting on every hole, and it will be a 3-4 hour round. Often times if they start, they give up in a hole or two.

^This seems to work.

Having info on a nearby course also helps....... thanks to DGCR, there's a smartphone-friendly website to point them to.

 

[DavidSauls]

Usually we warn them that the course is full, they will be waiting on every hole, and it will be a 3-4 hour round. Often times if they start, they give up in a hole or two.

Yes, this. And tell them when lunch and the end of the day's rounds are likely to be, so perhaps they can squeeze in play then. Invite them to watch, tell them where the top players probably are, which is never where I am. Recommend other close by courses.

In the end, if the course is closed, refer it to the TD. If not, live with it. Don't waste your energy and tournament frame of mind fighting with idiots.

 

[davetherocketguy]

In this day and age of internets and all that why anyone would be completely uninformed about a tourney is beyond me. If I take the time to drive a long ways to a course I make danged sure there is nothing going on if I want to get in some casual rounds so I'd have a hard time being sympathetic if I were in the tourney. Besides, wouldn't the sudden influx of like 2x or 3x the number of cars that is normally there drive someone away? It'd drive me away. If I saw like 40 or 50 cars in a lot that normally has 20 I'd be like, "Eff this..." and open DGCR mobile to find the next closest course.

BUT...killing them with kindness is definitely the right way to go. I'd have to bite my tongue though.

 

[ru4por]

I tell the story of once going to Stafford Lakes in NorCal on vacation. The wife and I got there early, to avoid any crowds on the weekend. Of course ran into a tournament. They could not have been nicer, let us play (albeit slowly), shared local treats, invited us to lunch w/ tasty Anderson Valley beer on tap between rounds. For my wife, who had just started playing recently, it was one of the most positive disc golf experiences possible. Casuals should be enbraced, they are the future of the game. In the course is not closed, you have NO more rights there then anybody else, including non disc golfers.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Andy and Disc Fifty hit the nail on the head. Something Andy said bears repeating:

Just kill them with kindness and it's really all you can do. Jerks will be jerks, and good people will understand and move on.

I've actually been the casual player trying to work around a tournament - I wouldn't even bother trying to play through on a local course, but it's a bit different when it's the last day of a DG road trip and your choice is you play this great gourse or probably never play it. If you're courteous, respectful, and patient, it's usually fine and no one comes away bent out of shape...obviously not the case in the OP as the casuals were DB's about it.

The only other thing I'd say is it might be worth discussing with the TD to see if it's possible to close the course to non tourney traffic and what it would cost.

In this day and age of internets and all that why anyone would be completely uninformed about a tourney is beyond me.

True, and while DG Scene is probably the best place to look, not all tourneys and leagues (essentially as bad as a tourney) are posted there and I'm not about to try to search all the local club pages.

 

[JC17393]

I'm always surprised by events that don't secure exclusive use of the course during a tournament, particularly if they expect a full field of players. As a TD, I'd want to have the authority to turn casuals away, particularly if the course is full and the only result of their presence would be to further clog and slow things down. If the tournament's not full, by all means let the casuals in as long as they understand the circumstances and observe basic etiquette. At the same time, the tournament players should also be made fully aware when the course isn't closed to casual play so that they don't mishandle an interaction with a casual group.

 

[Quinum]

Usually we warn them that the course is full, they will be waiting on every hole, and it will be a 3-4 hour round. Often times if they start, they give up in a hole or two.

I also vote for this. As a casual player myself, I would just head to another course if someone explained there is a tournament going on with huge waits in between holes.

 

[TruthHurts]

I'm always surprised by events that don't secure exclusive use of the course during a tournament, particularly if they expect a full field of players.

Exclusive use to public courses, at least in my limited experience on the matter, cost money. Not a small amount either. I don't see many TDs willing to part with any more money than they have to.

 

[JC17393]

Exclusive use to public courses, at least in my limited experience on the matter, cost money. Not a small amount either. I don't see many TDs willing to part with any more money than they have to.

Every time I've run an event on a public course, I secured a permit to have exclusive use of the course. Same goes for the vast majority of events I've played over the years. The unpermitted event is the exception rather than the rule in my experience. In fact, many parks require a permit to even hold a large organized event like a tournament.

I am aware, though, of parks departments that have a working relationship with the local club such that the club gets X number of free or discounted permits per year in exchange for the volunteer hours the club members put into upkeep and improvements on the course.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I usually try to explain what is going on and if they aren't willing to wait a lot, I refer them to another area course. I also try to let any casual groups play through as soon as possible, I would rather have them in front of my group than behind. Most of the events in my area are unsanctioned or Ctiers and don't usually have the course reserved.

 

[brandon21486]

This weekend, I played in the 2015 Frostbreaker tournament out at Shawnee Mission Park DGC. Three times during my rounds, my scorecard group and I encountered casual players trying to get a round in. We politely informed them of the fact that there was a PDGA tournament occurring throughout the weekend. We even pointed out the posted signs near one of the course's parking lots indicating that the course was being used for a special event (which was placed several weeks in advanced to notify people).

My question is, how best to handle this? This was my third tournament, I play in Recreational and the other three players on my first card were in their 1st tournament experience. They were all looking at me for rule clarification and advice.

Now honestly, I could care less about casuals as long as they don't interfere. My second problem came in the 2nd round. We witnessed two teenage girls throwing their drives towards the group ahead of us as we came around a hill. When we approached the tee where the stood in the fairway, we warned them not to throw since the group was still trying to clear the basket. After we explained what was going on, a group of guys approached wanting to play a casual round too. We told them about the tournament and after hearing their rude remarks, we returned to continue our round to them walking away trying still to distract our drives. As we got towards the basket, the whole crowd of them threw at us for laughs then grabbed their discs and left.

I never brought this up to the TD, nor did my group as we all agreed it wasn't worth it. But honestly, what would the best action be here? I don't mean to rant, but need to be educated in case this happens again.
Thanks!

I was at the same event and wonder if I was in the group ahead of you. Also, while warming up waiting for the second round had a couple of guys come through and yelled that I would get out of their way in just a minute they just threw right towards me. As said above jerks will be jerks.

 

[notroman]

Every time I've run an event on a public course, I secured a permit to have exclusive use of the course. Same goes for the vast majority of events I've played over the years. The unpermitted event is the exception rather than the rule in my experience. In fact, many parks require a permit to even hold a large organized event like a tournament.

I am aware, though, of parks departments that have a working relationship with the local club such that the club gets X number of free or discounted permits per year in exchange for the volunteer hours the club members put into upkeep and improvements on the course.

This all depends on your location and your park districts. I can imagine in a larger city like Kansas City where the OP is from getting exclusive rights to a course in a public park wouldn't be cheap. I remember a buddy of mine used to run a tournament at a local 9 hole course (used to be 18, and he would bring in 9 temp baskets to bring it back up to 18). The park is busy and sees lots of casual players at the course. He tried to secure exclusive use of the course but the park district wanted something like $800 for the day to do that. Not an amount you'd pay out of pocket or want to pass on to the players.

 

[phantom51]

I was at the same event and wonder if I was in the group ahead of you. Also, while warming up waiting for the second round had a couple of guys come through and yelled that I would get out of their way in just a minute they just threw right towards me. As said above jerks will be jerks.

I agree with a lot of the comments and do believe my group handled it in the best way we could. I think the guys who hassled us and the group in front of us were just as most are stating... Jerks.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and feel correct that the casuals are needed to further grow the sport.
On a second note, it was an awesome tournament which Dynamic Discs always does well on hosting. Kudos to them! I'm looking forward to competing more in the KC Mini Series this year.

 

[phantom51]

I was at the same event and wonder if I was in the group ahead of you.

Brandon, if you started on 18 in Round 2, you were in front of us. When we got to 18 and looked at #1's tee, we were wondering why your group looked bigger. My first thought was that the group in front of you didn't hear the start yell, but when I saw you tee off and head out, those casuals started throwing at your heals. That totally got us worried.
Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the tournament as well. See you around the courses in KC sometime.

 

[brandon21486]

Brandon, if you started on 18 in Round 2, you were in front of us. When we got to 18 and looked at #1's tee, we were wondering why your group looked bigger. My first thought was that the group in front of you didn't hear the start yell, but when I saw you tee off and head out, those casuals started throwing at your heals. That totally got us worried.
Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the tournament as well. See you around the courses in KC sometime.

Yep I was in that group. I heard their discs hit behind us and just tried to ignore them. I was wondering where they went when your group showed up at the teepad on 2 instead of them. First time I had ever had an issue like that. I have played quite a bit at Waterworks, which is frequently packed, and never had an issue.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

why people would even WANT to play during an event is beyond me. That happened to us a few times when first starting out and showing up to some bigger courses. We always left as it was way too much of a headache trying to play through or within the event and respected what was going on at the course.

Some people are just ignorant. Sounds like you ran into a few of those peeps on the DG course.