DFP Thumb Grip

[HyzerUniBomber]

Deep Flight Plate Power Grip

CLard and I have been chatting on FB and on the phone, bewildered by this phenomenon that works. I have a few theories about why it works, but ultimately the proof is in the pudding.

Backstory: I have never been able to throw with my thumb in DFP because of the way I aligned the disc to keep it naturally nose down. I've made videos about keeping the nose down and I still think that in terms of moving from 250' to 400' this is solid advice. An extremely common issue in form review is watching discs coming out of the hand nose up.

Using a Bonopane grip or aligning the disc along your forearm fixes that issue and teaches the budding distance monkey how important it is to throw the disc flat.

And yet:

I noticed a few big arm players hold the disc in what I call the suitcase grip. The pickup the disc by the rim like it was a suitcase and maximize their ability to grip the disc - and flatten the disc during the hit by tilting the wrist.

It wasn't until I read CLard's rebuilding form thread in Analysis - that I realized that if I hold in a suitcase grip - I can leverage the flight plate with DFP thumb positioning.

So the results:

Yesterday I was throwing putters in a school soccer field. After throwing my traditional putter grip, it crosses my mind to adjust things and try CLard's changes.

Absolutely nothing changed in my hip form... this was JUST the grip change and rolling the wrist under DURING the extension and hit.

310' with a wizard on a hyzer.

I have thrown putters this far before - but TYPICALLY I'm good to about 285' with an putter.

https://youtu.be/liuPgsicl9Y?t=324

But this was 35' more and nothing else changed. I didn't maximize an xstep - it was the same mechanics that had just thrown a wizard 275' on a hyzer.

During our discussion last night, the best idea that we agreed upon - was that it's possible that creating a thumb to index knuckle "lock spot" with the disc lined up along your forearm is not as effective in holding the disc like a suitcase and leveraging the flight plate against the index finger.

Adding the rolling under of the wrist, so that during the ripping from the grip, you angle the grip just a tiny bit better - so that the reality is that only during the follow through do you notice any angulation (wrist rolls under).

Watch how Nate's follow through rolls under, where as I had always followed through as if I wanted to backhand somebody.

Good luck, hope this helps somebody and feel free to ask any questions.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I have been trying this as well after reading Clard's thread. Two things about this grip that seem to go counter to what I thought was correct for getting to the hit. One is that there is not a pinch point for the pivot. Secondly it seems that the disc is getting pulled into the palm pretty firmly. Everything I think is right tells me to have the disc loose in the hand with a strong pinch point.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I know. I'll paraphrase our conversation:

"I feel bad because I've given completely counter advice to this before."

I don't think there's a pivot happening at all in the DFP. You get to 3:00 and the whole grip rips out while you have a very good grip on the disc.

CLard had the thought that Will S has figured out how to hook the index finger for a 4:00, while still staying in the DFP. Just idle speculation.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I don't think you need to feel bad. I know I am throwing better and farther than I ever did before. My mid and putter game has gone from serviceable to one of my strong points. I feel like I'm on the edge of making another breakthrough in distance and have a new passion for the game that all started with Heavydisc! It could just be a logical progression. You need to get to point A before moving on to Point B. That's how it works for me. I'm probably not ready for this yet but Clard thinks it's a simple adjustment because he is much farther along in his progression.

 

[cdunlapb12]

Yeah exactly, I'm excited to try this and see what it can do. Especially for someone with big hands who can really hold the disc firmly. HUB you're the reason I can out drive all of my friends so don't feel sorry. We're all still learning. Even Paul McBeth has things to learn....Maybe.

 

[RFrance]

I'm anxiously waiting for 5 PM to try this out. I already had my bucket of mids loaded up for field practice when I get off to work on the thumb push and wrist roll under. This sounds like one step better in the progression.

 

[Stevo]

I have been trying this as well after reading Clard's thread. Two things about this grip that seem to go counter to what I thought was correct for getting to the hit. One is that there is not a pinch point for the pivot. Secondly it seems that the disc is getting pulled into the palm pretty firmly. Everything I think is right tells me to have the disc loose in the hand with a strong pinch point.

Can you possibly link clard's thread? I'd like to check that one out as well...

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Can you possibly link clard's thread? I'd like to check that one out as well...

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100614

Starting around post 55

 

[clard]

One is that there is not a pinch point for the pivot. Secondly it seems that the disc is getting pulled into the palm pretty firmly. Everything I think is right tells me to have the disc loose in the hand with a strong pinch point.

It does feel weird compared to having a strong pinch point with the thumb directly over the pointer finger. The pressure into the palm doesn't really change for me, and the disc is still relatively loose in my hand until the hit. To me this grip feels less secure, but by rolling under during the hit you are able to leverage the weight of the other side of the disc/air resistance/whatever it is to get a really hard ejection from your hand.

I posted this in the other thread, but you can get the feeling I'm talking about by taking a disc, gripping it like normal and then move the thumb further out on to the flight plate. Feels weird and like you don't have a good grip on the disc, BUT if you take your other hand and pull the other side of the disc up then you can feel how the thumb gives you leverage against that force. If you get the leverage right you should feel like your fingers would rip off of your hand before the disc would come out.

CLard had the thought that Will S has figured out how to hook the index finger for a 4:00, while still staying in the DFP. Just idle speculation.

Watching slow mo of Will I can tell he is rolling under, but he still manages to hold on until super late. Interesting though that watching Simon it always looks like he is just getting to 3:00 and never really holding past that.

I'm probably not ready for this yet but Clard thinks it's a simple adjustment because he is much farther along in his progression.

I do think it is a simple change, but if it doesn't work for you right now then it won't hurt you to put it on the back burner. I will say that this feels like a fundamental part of the throw that I was doing wrong until now.

 

[sidewinder22]

Bratten's 2 finger grip will get you to hook your index correctly and seated not deep into the palm, but against the hard part of the fore palm/knuckle. I use the same fan grip as MJ, but every grip is based on the 2 finger index hook, it's like the universal grip fix.

 

[DougCrawford]

By rolling the wrist under, do you mean turning it palm up? Nates throw looks like it starts palm down and releases Palm left.

 

[sidewinder22]

By rolling the wrist under, do you mean turning it palm up? Nates throw looks like it starts palm down and releases Palm left.

Palm down, so you can see the back of your hand all the way around. The follow through is cut off, but you can see his palm rotating down in the followthrough.

 

[DiscLoser1]

 

[tbr75]

You can really see the roll under in big jerm's throw.

 

[runningDoc]

I know a couple pros who do the deep thumb but bend their thumb to the point where the thumbnail jabs into to the flight plate (depressing the plate) when driving discs. These are guys who do this even with putters and can throw putters 300+ft easily.

One guy was sponsored by DISCRAFT and has these old comets that have permanent marks by the thumbnail jabbing into the flight plate.

What I noticed is that no disc is too overstable for these guys who use that grip, manifested by easy 375ft beefy champ firebird throws, but also they can throw putters and understable mids 350ft too.

 

[Kevdude82]

This was the first instructional video I ever watched when I picked up the game. I used this grip for a while, but because my overall form was terrible, and I never worked at improving it until recently, I never managed to be able to get the full potential of this grip. I've since moved on to to way Climo grips, but I'm gonna go back on the field and give this grip another shot, now that my form is much better than before.

 

[RFrance]

I really like the results I had at practice this evening with the DFP and the thumb push/wrist roll. I was getting my Mako3 out to about 275 or so which is about 25 feet more than before. I still need to play with the thumb position and the wrist roll timing. I could really feel when the timing was right and when I missed it. I could definitely see the flight difference too. I threw a few drivers and it felt good but will need more work with those on the timing and the release height. I was liking using the three finger grip but will definitely need to compare with the four finger grip before deciding which to go with.

 

[slowplastic]

I've always wondered about how it looks like Paul and Nikko choke up on the disc when gripping it, and how it looks like it points nose up while their wrist is relaxed. But like an idiot I never tried it as I like having that pinch point feel. I have to say this type of grip feels great on fairways and wider rims, especially with the comment that the leverage of the opposite edge will help with thumb pressure during a throw. I can't wait until I can get to a field next to try it out.

 

[Stevo]

I tried this yesterday evening with putters... stood 2-3 houses down in the street and threw hyzers to a basket in my front yard. Tried a slow 2-step from 3 houses down and sailed past my house into the neighbors yard. Got it dialed in though. Very easy to throw on clean lines with no wobble - I feel I can control the plane and release angle better and in doing so, truly telegraph the hyzer/anhyzer by tilting my body rather than the disc.

 

[Mocheez]

I experimented with this grip a couple of years ago. For me, it seems to work best with a very low pull through. I couldn't use that grip while pulling through high around my chest. With a low pull through, rolling under at the hit seems to happen naturally.