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Distance: Today's players, yesterday's discs?
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
biscoe
* Ace Member *
When Kenny started winning world championships the driver for "big d" was the viper, by the time he finished it was tbirds and valkyries. There are tons of guys still throwing tbirds today so while there may not have been a study per se there is data out there to be collected on that at least.
Old school video
Here's Paul throwing a round using nothing but old stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLiOsUkU-Vs
Here's Paul throwing a round using nothing but old stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLiOsUkU-Vs
Last edited:
Mocheez
* Ace Member *
Slightly off topic... can we stop talking about advances in disc "technology"? Injection molding was invented in 1872. The only real technology changes have been premium plastics (2000's), overmolds (2000's), wide rims (no change since 2008), bubble plastic (2012), and pockets for lights/tracking devices (2014). Most Innova pros use the Destroyer as their distance driver which came out 12 years ago when Climo was still the #1 rated player in the world.
climo even said he thought the wraith was almost "too much disc"
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I'm not sure it's relevant. We spend hours talking about distance, proper technique and what it means, but this is a game of inches. I suspect that a player who can throw his teebird on a rope will beat a player who can throw his Boss a mile, but never less than fifty feet from the basket, every day.
The KC vs PM debate is less complex than folks think, IMO. Other than the forehand, I see them matching up nicely, even with the plastic being different. Accuracy counts. The only disc I see as mattering significantly is the Thunderbird, or an equivalent. Throwing 500 feet only matters in a big fairway. Long fairways in the woods, and short fairways in the woods, take the same types of discs, today and then. So Paul maybe has an advantage on big holes (you know, the hyzer holes everyone hates) but in the woods it's skill set vs skill set.
The KC vs PM debate is less complex than folks think, IMO. Other than the forehand, I see them matching up nicely, even with the plastic being different. Accuracy counts. The only disc I see as mattering significantly is the Thunderbird, or an equivalent. Throwing 500 feet only matters in a big fairway. Long fairways in the woods, and short fairways in the woods, take the same types of discs, today and then. So Paul maybe has an advantage on big holes (you know, the hyzer holes everyone hates) but in the woods it's skill set vs skill set.
I get all the "skill" comments, I'm just curious about raw distance potential, then and now.
Do you think Eagle, Simon could throw those discs today further than Climo did back then?
Do you think Eagle, Simon could throw those discs today further than Climo did back then?
I don't know if every high level pro could, but Eagle and Simon, absolutely yes. They are on a different level. Climo's never showed he could throw putters anywhere near the 500' mark like Simon recently did in a tournament. He was never a real "power player" anyway. Maybe Scott Stokely in his prime would be more comparable to Simon or Eagle if he had faster discs back when he was younger.
They even throw minis further...
I'm going to go ahead and say yes, mainly because Climo wasn't the distance king in his prime. He had contemporaries who threw farther than he did when he was running off all those world titles. He threw far, for sure, but that wasn't the strength of his game.
But also, the players these days are much more refined with their technique. By that I mean I think they, with a little bit of work, can make the adjustments necessary to maximize the distance they get out of a Gazelle or Cyclone or the like. Simon threw a P2 close to 500 feet at WACO. I have to think if you put a Cobra in his hand, he could throw that just as far or farther.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Yep! But only cause they watched Sidewinder's instructional videos.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I still remember the brag fests on line. "I got the newest longest driver and I threw it fifty feet farther than the last newest longest driver." I once did a snarky post based on the gains bragged about. By the time you got to the Destroyer you should have been up to 800 feet. I think JC is right, distance is distance and the difference between a Boss and a Valk is much less than folks think it is.
Stokely was throwing xl's 600 feet in 1999. An XL is 7 or 8 speed. I'm not sure how much shorter climo was than stokely, or how far today's pros can throw 7 or 8 speed discs, but this could be a good starting point.
Simon and Eagle aren't the furthest throwing guys are they? That's why I mentioned them because they seem to be the furthest throwing "elite" players today. I could have sworn I've read/heard S or E saying Drew Gibson was the furthest throwing pro today. hmm...
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,515
The thing that everyone talks about in this era debate is how far can someone today throw an old disc. Then there's the conversation of stability, control, yada yada yada.
What's never talked about is how much more important distance is today as newer courses and holes are so much longer than in the past due to the game evolving.
There's a reason Stokely and other distance throwers of the past weren't as nearly successful in terms of scoring as the ones today.
What's never talked about is how much more important distance is today as newer courses and holes are so much longer than in the past due to the game evolving.
There's a reason Stokely and other distance throwers of the past weren't as nearly successful in terms of scoring as the ones today.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
BTW - Rick, of Rick's Darts and Games, here in Houston, been selling discs since the mid to early 1980s, says that his all-time best seller is the Valk. Still is today, more so than any other disc he sells.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I wonder about this. The courses at Tom Bass, where Texas States was played for years, were always big. Lots of 500 to 1000 foot holes, and a few very technical holes. I do see a few mega courses, but the tendency back in the early 2000s was to move the teeboxes back when the pros came to town.
I just feel that there is now more of a demand for big courses to play, day to day.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,515
Just because a hole is further doesn't mean a big arm has a big advantage - even if the hole is wide open.
People, for the most part, don't understand difficulty in our sport very well.
Really..I had no idea. How long was a par 4, 5 back when Climo played?
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