Excessive time called at DGPT finals

[araytx]

At DGPT finals today, Gannon Buhr was called on an excessive time (over 30 seconds to throw) warning. I firmly believed that the proposed rule change, while it may not change how things occur in our local tournaments WILL change what goes on at DGPT. With the TDs monitoring notoriously slow players, perhaps the pro game will get closer to what it is supposed to be.

Thoughts?

 

[Steve West]

Today, we have become a Sport.

 

[gooberau]

At DGPT finals today, Gannon Buhr was called on an excessive time (over 30 seconds to throw) warning. I firmly believed that the proposed rule change, while it may not change how things occur in our local tournaments WILL change what goes on at DGPT. With the TDs monitoring notoriously slow players, perhaps the pro game will get closer to what it is supposed to be.

Thoughts?

All for it. It was truly painful to watch him on the first few holes take four or five air swings at his lie, THEN go to his bag to choose a disc, then return for a few more swings, and finally a shot.

I had to go out (early morning here in Australia) so I missed the call. Who called it? And I assume this was just a warning? No penalty stroke?

 

[discoriented]

About time. I didn't see it but would be interested to know if it was called by a player or an official It sucks that they waited 'til now, and that it was a kid instead of Nikko, but good to see someone making an effort. I don't think fiddling with a range finder should be cause for extra time either.

 

[Steve West]

...I don't think fiddling with a range finder should be cause for extra time either.

It's not.

 

[Emoney]

Good...the pace of the game is a large part of disc golf's playing and viewing popularity...

The 30 second rule is also part of the challenge for a touring pro.

I wished this happened more often.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Buhr has been on coverage a few times. I knew that I didn't enjoy watching him, but I never thought about why. I went back and watched a couple of shots and he is definitely consistently over the limit.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It sucks that they waited 'til now, and that it was a kid instead of Nikko, but good to see someone making an effort.

Completely agree with all of this.

 

[Countchunkula]

Nikko is slow, but he's not the earliest or worst example of unreasonably slow play. Pretty sure Geoff Bennett was doing his lengthy warm up routine while Nikko was still in school. I expect there are other examples of notoriously slow players from earlier eras.

 

[Horsman]

When did Gannon get called.

 

[robdeforge]

I don't think fiddling with a range finder should be cause for extra time either.

It's not.

just to provide a link:

https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-equ/qa-equ-1-can-i-use-rangefinders

QA-EQU-1: Can I use rangefinders?

Yes, but you must still throw within the 30 seconds allowed by the Excessive Time rule.

 

[Nale72]

When did Gannon get called.

If I remember correctly it was in the second half of the back 9 he was warned and they said the call was made by an official and not the players in his card.

I agree about that Nikko would have deserved a few time warnings also for a long time, but from when I saw Gannon and Nikko in the same card a while ago, Gannon might even be slower (and slow on all kinds of shots) than Nikko. With Nikko it's mostly his putts, but Gannon is slow on all shots.

 

[Jimb]

I don't think fiddling with a range finder should be cause for extra time either.

It's not.

Going beyond 30 seconds due to using a rangefinder may not be allowed by the rules, but it certainly does seem to be the cause sometimes.

Get to your lie. Walk back to the bag. Unzip your rangefinder bag and whip it out. Walk back to your lie. Use the range finder. Walk back to your bag. Zip it back in the bag. Walk back to your lie. Then go through normal throw prep. Etc. I've seen it happen on coverage and haven't put a timer on anyone. Maybe we/they should. Thoughts?

 

[flatflip]

just to provide a link:

https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-equ/qa-equ-1-can-i-use-rangefinders

Seems like this should be somewhat tempered by
802.03.A.2 They have had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie.

Part of determining the lie is assessing how far it is from the basket, no? Now what a "reasonable amount of time" is is probably the crux of the debate.

 

[biscoe]

Seems like this should be somewhat tempered by
802.03.A.2 They have had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie.

Part of determining the lie is assessing how far it is from the basket, no? Now what a "reasonable amount of time" is is probably the crux of the debate.

No it is not. "Determining the lie" is figuring out where to mark, not how far from the pin.

 

[krupicka]

Part of determining the lie is assessing how far it is from the basket, no? .

No. If the lie is not being relocated, you only need to know where the basket is and the thrown disc is to determine the lie. The distance does not matter.

 

[robdeforge]

Part of determining the lie is assessing how far it is from the basket, no?

according to

QA-EQU-1: Can I use rangefinders?

Yes, but you must still throw within the 30 seconds allowed by the Excessive Time rule.

no, assessing your distance from the basket is not part of determining the lie. otherwise that Q&A would be worded differently.

edit: lol sorry for piling on, none of the other responses were there when I started!

 

[flatflip]

Well that got shot down pretty quickly.

I should note that I do not use a rangefinder and am strongly in favor of the enforcement of the time limit rule.

Still, unless "determination of the lie" has a strict definition in the rulebook, there is room for interpretation.

 

[robdeforge]

Well that got shot down pretty quickly.

I should note that I do not use a rangefinder and am strongly in favor of the enforcement of the time limit rule.

Still, unless "determination of the lie" has a strict definition in the rulebook, there is room for interpretation.

krupicka is the chair of the rules committee, I'm inclined to listen to what he has to say. to "determine the lie" one only needs to find their disc and see where the basket (or any mandatories) are. no need to figure out how far the basket is to determine the lie.

 

[flatflip]

Unfortunately, he's not going to be at every tournament, so it wouldn't surprise me if a TD gets the question. FWIW, I would shoot it down pretty quickly if I were the TD.

I'm coming from the world of building code compliance. Statements like this get litigated all the time. Luckily the spirit of our game is such that we don't have a rule book as thick as the IBC, where there's a chapter thicker than the PDGA rulebook just containing definitions.