First form check!

[Brychanus]

Need a break and probably wise to take it to the course next. This fella is on my mind. I'm not sure I'll ever get this high on my toes but posturally it seems like where this may be taking me, and in the ballpark of SW's last images of his own form.

 

[Brychanus]

Looks like you are trying to get your left foot xstep around in front your right foot and it gets in the way of your right foot stride. Try doing a little zig zag x-step so your left steps more to the right/east and your whole CoM moves a little same way, and then right steps a little left/west. Your right leg needs to push you slightly deeper east going into the x-step.

You know this but for my & lurker benefit:

It's bizarre to me how sometimes I "see" something in advanced form after we get my body to do a version of it. I think I "understand" "throwing with my center" much better than before. And I also understand why other people have trouble seeing it.

GG is doing a dramatic and awesome version of SW's suggestion.

It was important for me to pay more attention to what happens to his center as soon as each foot starts making ground contact. My first step is becoming more similar to GG's going more East, which like him, is helping my body get closed off and set up torque in transition BEFORE hitting the ground again in the "prep step" (step before X-step). We also both hop/rise in the prep step to set up the "effortless" gravity part of the move.

Then in the "prep step" he ends up tossing his CoG back East a bit (well, actually it's quite a lot in different camera angle), which is also setting up counter torque in the whole move in that direction, which is also what is helping him load up that ridiculous backswing maneuver when his rear foot plants the X-step. That's part of why he gets soooo much space before he whips back through and out from his center - throwing the body back East. Conveniently since it also helps get me more confidence in the rear leg with its weird issue I'm relieved to run with it lmao.

I think I learned a little bit exploring with more hip hinge last week, but it's clearly time to move back in line with my anatomy again.

After rest days I'll try to do this move as tall and long as possible and get my legs more relaxed in transition and see what we get. It's going to be easier on my plant knee if I can get more Inside/less quaddy and just whip the entire move through more like GG's "zig zag," I think.


I do think there is probably a way to talk about this without the imaginary pink orb, but for me it helps me consolidate yet another thing. Plus, people end up getting their bodies and centers trapped so often that I don't think it's just about cute pink orbs floating in space.

 

[Brychanus]

I think these are all things you have cued recently so starting to tie them together:

Mostly a rest day so I tried just a few at half speed trying to get the front leg to swing in underneath me unimpeded and "stick the landing" better so I can take some pressure off my my plant knee as the next priority before I throw a round.

It does seem to the the case that a bit more pronation in the pump jives well with the prep step sending my body East and it adds more torque overall. I also am able to take it a little more vertical which allows better access for the plant leg to swing forward. Then I can just supinate into the backswing and it's already starting to work together smoothly.

I still see evidence of my gait issue in these but I think if I keep fishing around in it and try to stay as tall as possible while launching my CoG into the X hop I might also be able to keep improving the backswing and landing to swing more inside posture. These feel "good swingy" to me overall...

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Step 1st right foot further west/left out in front of your body/head.

2. When you pump, your arm and CoM are both going upward together on right leg and downward together on left leg, so you have a lot of vertical movement on the disc. I pump earlier and start dropping my arm earlier when my CoM starts rising on right leg, so they are countering and keeping my disc flatter vertically in the backswing. I think this is also why your backswing always looks rushed. Pump your arm/disc away from your rear foot as far as possible and then start backswing as you start rising on right foot.

 

[Brychanus]

1. Step 1st right foot further west/left out in front of your body/head.

2. When you pump, your arm and CoM are both going upward together on right leg and downward together on left leg, so you have a lot of vertical movement on the disc. I pump earlier and start dropping my arm earlier when my CoM starts rising on right leg, so they are countering and keeping my disc flatter vertically in the backswing. I think this is also why your backswing always looks rushed. Pump your arm/disc away from your rear foot as far as possible and then start backswing as you start rising on right foot.
View attachment 339491

Got it & love it again. Right now I'm getting a lot of sneaky momentum in the landing even when I'm going slow, so I'm extra motivated to keep at this to get pressure off the plant knee. Throwing at like 60% & this is strangely relaxing lol.

1. This is a little harder than the 2nd but attempted. Probably going to need a few days. I know I keep mentioning it, but I think the gait issue always tends to make my right leg compensate a bit for the left leg so part of the knee always going slightly West in the prep step and plant is related to that. But I can nudge it closer to what you said I think and it might continue to improve.

2. We've been here before but this time my brain now "feels" my CoG more while my feet are moving so it's a little easier to tweak again. I ignored most of the pump other than the sequence to see what we'd get. On the best ones I definitely feel like I have more control over the backswing tempo and I think we see it's creating more space and swing length again.

I'm still not landing great every time and I can feel the old bad tip interfering, but it's better when the backswing gels and the shift gets more compact.

Good news is pressure on the plant knee decreased again immediately, already getting a bit more out of the "CoG whip" again overall.




Edit: btw this is exciting - this is probably the "best" my release point has ever looked:

 

[Brychanus]

Almost tied PB on the local meatgrinder mixed layout. Most lines are 350' or less so it helped keep me relaxed. Couldn't really figure out the distance driver releases because I was tending to rush on the only open hole on the course where I use them. But then I got my rhythm, and putters, mids, and fairways mostly came out great.

Cool "in the wild" body insight was:

I realized about midway through the round I was able to get slightly more control over this part of the Hershyzer in transition, and it helped me to visualize the "strong" green lines between foot, hip, and shoulder. Kept thinking about "tall" strides like Wysocki, Orum, Pujols, Chapman. I suddenly got more control over the plant landing and my shots, and then it was like my brain started to learn "backwards" from the plant and it was feeling more like a crow hop.

It also seems to be helping to just feel like I'm "throwing the bat" overall. Very little thinking, very much CoM slinging the disc out when I plant. Full on centrifugal mode.

I put my legs through a lot past couple of weeks so I'm going to treat the next week or two like "active recovery" and throw at 60-70% focusing on the recent bits until the new balance and rhythm starts to feel more natural again.

Maybe I can keep getting the strides to improve. It does seem like due to rear leg & gait issue I will either tend to (1) extend slightly off rear leg or (2) have rear knee go more East or (3) have plant knee go more West at landing - they are all kind of tradeoffs when I walk, too. But I can get sorta balanced throughout.


Right after the round:



One other one where I was tinkering with transition posture and a touch more momentum, bringing the final stride more "out in":


Project Water Buffalo throw continues. This is very promising, thanks again man.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking much better!

Now stop trying to look at your 12 o'clock, and stare down your hit point like hammering nail into wall sideways. You can also look into left eye dominance and see if that might be an issue, although you could also throw with eyes closed like Val Mandujano.

 

[Brychanus]

Nice, thanks man. I see it (ha).

Apparently eye dominance can change over time and be context-dependent.

So this is also interesting - I generally test more right-eye dominant and that was the case also for throwing, but I did the test while in my new/current backhand setup posture eyeing an "apex" and the test went convincingly to my left eye. It surprised me. I wonder if it just started to happen for some reason as I adjusted other things.

Maybe it was just because I was testing it after you mentioned the possibility, but I also just may turn out to be the most backwards student possible.

I've never tried throwing eyes closed but could feel it having an effect on my foot-to-head balance, so that's worth a whack. Didn't ever notice Val was doing that until I watched frame by frame just now.

 

[Brychanus]

I just played a round with @SocraDeez while he was passing through town and tried a couple shots closing my left eye. They came out immediately better on their own. I'll check the look of that in my next blanket session

 

[Brychanus]

First (re)scheduled tourney ever is Sat. Likely to be wet if not postponed. Mostly wooded and accuracy within 300' & hitting gaps will matter.

Threw max Wt. Comet field session on wet ground through two posts to target at 300-320'ish feet. Wanted to rule out/in what's working best today.

What's clearly working - salvo hit 7/8 discs in C1 at low effort and clean lines. Felt like "swimming thru like Gibson":
-Left eye closed. Ok to start with two open but close left as I start the move.
-Focus on posture and slash thru low arm slot in pre-shot. You're throwing hammers, not frisbees dude. Fork grip still seems "best" for me.
-Get as loooong as possible off the left foot in the pump. This might be the single most important part of my move to reinforce right now. Helps everything "click". Shift underneath gets better, swing length gets better, power/effort ratio and control dramatically goes up. Easier to stride athletically and hop past disc in transition. More space to swing. Even the bad swings are better.
-Feeling out the Gurthie "zigzag" athletically and focusing on the whole rhythm & swing length was usually better than focusing on the parts. Rhythm "felt" very cool today.
-"Permission to smash."
-Relax. Enjoy. Watch frisbee.

What's promising in long run:
-My body conditioning has clearly helped my resilience/synergized with efficiency if nothing else. I probably threw 70+ shots working up to 75-80% power and didn't really tire noticeably. Much more a momentum than effort-driven swing even when balance was a little shitty.
-"You're so flat footed": my calves did seem to tire faster than anything else, so putting in some body work there.
-Always leave on a high note. I left once I got to my "what's working" conclusions and immediately after the last salvo started coming out slightly sloppy again. Celebrated the takeaways, discarded the negatives.
-eyes closed seems to get head more on stack and a little more power potential, but finding release point is very tricky. It was like I could feel my whole body and balance better, though.
-mess with grip/slash thru only a bit. Comets looked really good today when I stop screwing with it too much.

What's clearly bad if I focus on it too much in a real throw:
-Either too intentionally pronating the pump or supinating the backswing. Tends to disconnect my arm from the shift. Arm seems okay-ish on its own if the rest is functioning better, and especially using the full pump off left foot.
-Exactly where my feet and head go. Just need to try to stay balanced-ish and get the disc to the apex.
-Micromanaging my grip mid-swing.
-Worrying if the whole swing falls apart for a salvo immediately after messing with something. Just chill out & go back to the "what's working" pile and throw.

My "golf distance" is in the best spot it has ever been. Need to keep mitigating tendency to tip Northwest in transition. Will keep using the field to hone placement & see if I can coax a little more out at low effort. Will wait for dry conditions for that.

 

[Brychanus]

First tourney report & strategy changes:
Given this was the first time I've ever intentionally competed I wanted to journal everything I noticed and remembered. I had a great time and learned more in one day than I thought possible. Some things went very well. There is plenty I can fix with practice.

I placed 8th out of 32 in the new player/low division. I was fine with that given I've never formally competed or played the layout, which had some unusual and very tight wooded lines and going off fairway was basically all shrubs, thorns, and presenting with few scramble lines.

I told cardmates it was my first time and everyone was nice. I decided to put positive energy into my card the whole time, which also helped me keep from focusing too much on any of my own negative thoughts.

Competing had the same effect it did in martial arts and dance, where I was a weird combination of strangely zen the entire time, and generally much more focused on the goal. On the other hand, given that the tone of the tournament was so low-key, it also kind of lulled me into a sense of complacency. I think I have another gear of focus I can shift into overall. Overall, it was probably good for me to start with something that kept me mostly relaxed.

I had been at a wedding dancing the night before (which was only because the tourney was rescheduled), woke up at 4am due to my baby and couldn't fall back asleep. I don't think my legs had quite recovered from earlier in the week and they were a little more fatigued than I'd have liked going into the tourney. However, I actually felt pretty good when playing so I don't want to put too much on those variables. Nevertheless a little more rest would be great.

I knew this was going to happen to me, which is also why I avoided it for so long: I had fun - but now I also want to improve my chances to win.


Summary - I clearly need to get smarter:
The things that didn't go well were all predictable, and they call for obvious changes in my habits.

Probably most important, I made a rookie mistake and practiced too much on skills I wouldn't actually use in the tournament, and not enough on the right ones. I only needed to use my "golf distance" drive power once, and had over-practiced relative to what I needed to compete while working on form.

I had way too much trouble finding my touch shots with my throwing putter, and so many of the holes were upshot distance that it cost me easy birdies the first half of round 1. I tried to "club down" to putters but my grip felt weak and alien after working so much to hone Comets at 300'+ the week before, especially when I was trying to finesse 200' shots or less in the woods. It was like I couldn't even figure out how to get my mechanics to work on them for some reason. I kept either overjuicing it with the putters or early Comet shots, or had unintended rightward releases while my movement was settling down. My grip felt much more comfortable on my Comets than anything else, so by the end of the first round I just started to throw every shot with my Comets and my performance improved. After switching to Comets-only, I hit every gap shot but one, which I narrowly missed (and then bogied lmao). I f@#$ing love Comets.

Once my short "drives" calmed down, I was comfortably in C1 most of the time but still missing easy putts...


My highlights:
1. Comets, baby. Hyzerflip game was cooking. Touch game started to come back with confidence in the disc.
2. Felt confident putting anywhere between 20' and 60'. I was doing pretty well. Those little Simon-like flex putts are money in C2 in the woods. I don't know why they work so well for me but I'm happy I have it.
3. I was generally taking my time and playing smart. There were a couple places where I was a little more conservative than I would be in casual play but it prevented me from bleeding strokes.
4. Drew metal on one weird shot I've never thrown before - Comet.
5. The few times I was off the fairway it was less than 5'.
6. My body felt good the whole day, and next day felt good too. There's definitely a little overuse from the week so I need to keep watching my drive-power shot volume and rest timing.
7. Mostly stayed loose and moved easily. My new weight shift mechanics were on my mind a bit, but I didn't worry about it and just focused on the task at hand. Mechanics-heavy preshot routines are very important for me now and keep me from thinking too much, too.


The most alarming mistakes to me were:
1. I got MORE nervous the closer my putts were to the basket. I dropped a Comet within like 15' in three consecutive 250-270' holes - the same hyzerflip three times in a row. I only made the first of three putts - less than 5' from the basket. I remember getting strangely nervous and wimped the other short putts. I think that happened for a few other short putts, but these were the most upsetting because the contrast between awesome drives and spoiled "easy" birdies was palpable. Need to drive and putt for dough.
2. One exceptionally dangerous elevated basket placement called for something like a stalling anhyzer flex shot with something overstable. I have a beat Gator I've quickly fallen in love with and had a nice shot in mind. I knew as soon as it left my hand it was hitting first available. Big contrast between smart intent and execution.


Strategy change:
I am going to try switching to "competition mode" now minding only the last few weeks' changes and see how my game and form adapt. Conveniently, I am repainting our basement and closing down my indoor station for everything but putting, which will force me to use the field. I also need to have a more balanced set of skills at this point.

New KISS method for actually getting better at golf:

Mechanics:
Drill inside. Throw outside. No exceptions.

Bag
Kind of "no duh," but if I have 10x+ more reps with Comets than anything else, I should probably be milking them for everything I can. The grip has an immeasurably large effect on my performance now, apparently, and I am more comfortable gripping Comets than anything else. So I'm going to try to dial in my Comet fleet for anything from like 150' (maybe even less!) to 300/330'-ish feet. One grip+mold, practice controlling many effects. Hopefully Discraft never stops making Comets lmao. I seem to prefer a lot of "old school" discs and that's cool with me.

Putting
I almost never practice putting, so I forgave myself for the misses, but it's still where I give up the most strokes when I'm throwing well. I'm going to reward myself for the basement project but treating myself to putting 3x a week, and try a few practice tricks people recommend to make it more fun and generalize to high-pressure putting.

Drives & upshots in local field-establish a new routine
Warmup 200' shots throwing multiple lines on different slopes
30-40 drives working up to ~80-85%
Cooldown 200' shots

That will probably cover most of what I need in the average round, and I can tweak it to focus if I have a competition coming up.

Forehand
The time is coming... soon...

 

[jupiterboy]

Forehand
The time is coming... soon...

It's amazing to me how much I lean on my Jawbreaker Zone for forehand ups and short wooded drives. I have to make myself work with backhand ups or risk losing my touch.

 

[Brychanus]

It's amazing to me how much I lean on my Jawbreaker Zone for forehand ups and short wooded drives. I have to make myself work with backhand ups or risk losing my touch.

I guess I'm realizing that modeling after Michael Johansen in the woods wouldn't be too shabby for myself. Everyone's a little different but I can just lean into that. Comets still fascinate me because they can cover a huge range of shots but they do have a sort of fundamental demand on touch no matter how they're thrown...

This made me remember (just about my own issue): I used to use a Zone for flex forehand short drives in the woods, got concerned about my shoulder since I kept jamming my body, then got body confused trying to take it flatter or on hyzer, and then just got obsessed with working on the backhand. On the other hand, the Weckmethod clubs also seem to have helped my FH rely much more on my weight shift and improve my range of motion and protect my arm and shoulder. I'd probably benefit from having that Zone flex forehand in my bag again anyway - there's a reason those things are popular regardless of what people can point out about bad habits. I also do throw my beat Firebird FH sometimes and it has been slowly improving but I don't trust it enough yet to use when I care about score.

I might also try taking the Comets for a spin for hyzerflip forehand. Thinking of Nate Sexton's buttery understable forehands.

Also forgot to mention overhands: I'm also still really happy about how the WeckMethod club training affected these. I had to throw two overhand scrambles and parked both of them. I am still amazed that my brain just suddenly "solved" that problem. I'm sure I could look at them on camera and find something to mechanically change, but I actually just want to leave it alone since they're working so well. I wish everything else had "clicked" that fast for me lmao

 

[jupiterboy]

I guess I'm realizing that modeling after Michael Johansen in the woods wouldn't be too shabby for myself. Everyone's a little different but I guess I'm realizing that I can just lean into that. Comets still fascinate me because they can cover a huge range of shots but they do have a sort of fundamental demand on touch no matter how they're thrown...

This made me remember (just about my own issue): I used to use a Zone for flex forehand short drives in the woods, got concerned about my shoulder since I kept jamming my body, then got body confused trying to take it flatter or on hyzer, and then just got obsessed with working on the backhand. On the other hand, the Weckmethod clubs also seem to have helped my FH rely much more on my weight shift and improve my range of motion and protect my arm and shoulder. I'd probably benefit from having that Zone flex forehand in my bag again anyway - there's a reason those things are popular regardless of what people can point out about bad habits. I also do throw my beat Firebird FH sometimes and it has been slowly improving but I don't trust it enough yet to use when I care about score.

I might also try taking the Comets for a spin for hyzerflip forehand. Thinking of Nate Sexton's buttery understable forehands.

Also forgot to mention overhands: I'm also still really happy about how the WeckMethod club training affected these. I had to throw two overhand scrambles and parked both of them. I am still amazed that my brain just suddenly "solved" that problem. I'm sure I could look at them on camera and find something to mechanically change, but I actually just want to leave it alone since they're working so well. I wish everything else had "clicked" that fast for me lmao

Jawbreaker breaks in to a more neutral disc pretty quickly, which gives it more distance. I like the feel of that plastic, too. Pair that with a Z and it's an interesting pair—very different flights, same disc.

I've recently added a lighter Halo Roc3, which is actually nice and flat. That will probably take the place of my G* Eagle L for longer forehands.

 

[Brychanus]

Jawbreaker breaks in to a more neutral disc pretty quickly, which gives it more distance. I like the feel of that plastic, too. Pair that with a Z and it's an interesting pair—very different flights, same disc.

I've recently added a lighter Halo Roc3, which is actually nice and flat. That will probably take the place of my G* Eagle L for longer forehands.

Nice - I got my daughter a jawbreaker "macro" disc from the prize voucher and liked the feel of the plastic. I might try that because I like the feel of Zones for FH as much as I like Comets for BH. I also have an Eagle I didn't quite love for BH so I can try that FH a bit. I should look through my Mid pile and see if there's anything else I haven't tinkered with for FH.

 

[Kennets]

Wait, was that your first tournament? I absolutely loved my first one! People were cool and didnt go out of their way to help me out with rules etc.

The one thing i'll warn you about, is : you will have tournaments that will be absolutely dreadful. You might play very poorly, have a shitty card mate or just be off in general..

My first tournament, i nearly got a 900 rating after playing for 3-5 months and i thought i were heading for mpo within a year (yeah, im that delusional). Next tournament i played a 780 round and got a reality check.. havent played one since, lol.

As with form, tournaments can be a mental test, prepare accordingly!

Cant wait for your FH journey! *Imagine Richard Marx singing "right here waiting"*

 

[Brychanus]

Wait, was that your first tournament? I absolutely loved my first one! People were cool and didnt go out of their way to help me out with rules etc.

The one thing i'll warn you about, is : you will have tournaments that will be absolutely dreadful. You might play very poorly, have a shitty card mate or just be off in general..

My first tournament, i nearly got a 900 rating after playing for 3-5 months and i thought i were heading for mpo within a year (yeah, im that delusional). Next tournament i played a 780 round and got a reality check.. havent played one since, lol.

As with form, tournaments can be a mental test, prepare accordingly!

Cant wait for your FH journey! *Imagine Richard Marx singing "right here waiting"*

Yes, I for a long time had been avoiding it before some arbitrary level of form or distance or casual performance. I also am generally averse to joining large organizations so I kind of waffled about having anything to do with PDGA.

I finally relented and decided to sign up when my friend had nagged me enough to try it because he thought it would teach me new things. He knows me pretty well and during our post-tourney beer I asked him "you wanted me to do this so I would start making smarter choices and practice my putting and stop throwing so much into blankets, right?" He just kind of grinned at me and said "I just wanted you to get out and do it."

It would feel nice to string together all phases of the game more comfortably and consistently, and also like I know "my game" at whatever level that ends up being, and historically competing even just a little bit has focused me in new ways. It also focuses me on the future in important ways (life and disc golf).

I was thinking about the "bad tournament" scenario. Numerically my rounds came in lower than my average estimated performance elsewhere, but I let that roll off my back surprisingly fast. When I saw what I was doing when it was going well, I could say "yeah, you just need to get more in touch with that." Somehow I could just focus on what was in front of me and not behind me. I know I have a lot to learn and there's plenty of variance round to round and shot to shot I can keep working on. But I do think if I pay too much attention to it, it runs the risk of just being one new thing to stress about. I don't ever want to be there.

I did ask my cardmates to tell me their cardmate horror stories. They seemed infrequent in that local scene, but even at this tournament at the lowest level group there was a guy audibly raging sending his outbursts echoing among the trees as he failed shot after shot. There was a guy on my second card who got just a little salty and I tried to walk the line of giving him space and keeping the vibe positive. I guess I've already decided that having fun is equally weighted to performing well for me. If these things start sending me home with bad vibes, well, I'd rather just enjoy my friends & the local beer league.

I think the prep & maximizing fun is the takeaway for me either way. Diversifying practice in my little field is fun. Meeting new people is (usually) fun. Making putts after good drives or long putts after bad drives is fun. Viewing the game as a whole thing I can enjoy at this point will probably be healthier for me too.

 

[Kennets]

How you feel about big organizations and pdga, i felt the same with Spotify.. I just love podcast (and specially Andrew Huberman if that rings a bell? ), so i had to surrender.

Great to hear that you had a good experience with your first tournament!

I have a question about a certain video SW posted on another form thread, not sure if i should ask here or in my own thread lol

 

[jupiterboy]

I've stopped messing with UDisc and only track my scores on sanctioned league and tournaments. What a relief.

 

[Brychanus]

I have a question about a certain video SW posted on another form thread, not sure if i should ask here or in my own thread lol

Go for it - I don't mind if my thread becomes a more general resource when I'm not getting input on my own stuff.

I've stopped messing with UDisc and only track my scores on sanctioned league and tournaments. What a relief.

We had to use the PDGA scoring app for the tourney, and I would have to actively change tabs to see my rolling score. I actually didn't really know how I was shooting because I had a "short memory" which also relaxed me for each shot. I'm sure if I got more serious there are times when I would want to know the score for risk-reward assessments, but I liked how much I was "in the moment" the whole time.