Form Check Diary ✅

[Kjimsern]

Hi

I'm all over the place so i want to have one thread to document the progress and have more structure on the feedback.

Intro: I'm a dedicated Norwegian athlete who's putting in the hard work every day to prepare for the journey across the sea and compete in the U.S.

In advance thanks for your time and help.

 

[Brychanus]

Hey my dude-

Agree it's better to centralize.
1. We talked a little about your strides & shortening X-step. Though I want to mention that generally extended spine and anterior pelvic tilt moving it off the drive leg makes it harder to get that ideal sudden and compact shift because of the way the leverage changes in the hip sockets. It also makes it harder for the lower part of the spine to swing back and forth a bit like walking naturally.

You've heard this before so I'll ask a bit more about the bigger context: what have you tried recently to relax that/have a more neutral spine? Are you doing anything outside your throws and drills in the gym?



2. I have another mechanical pt. that might help your shift but it will be easier if we talk about the above first. I think you need to address the APT first but maybe with a new strategy.

 

[Kjimsern]

Hey my dude-

Agree it's better to centralize.
1. We talked a little about your strides & shortening X-step. Though I want to mention that generally extended spine and anterior pelvic tilt moving it off the drive leg makes it harder to get that ideal sudden and compact shift because of the way the leverage changes in the hip sockets. It also makes it harder for the lower part of the spine to swing back and forth a bit like walking naturally.

You've heard this before so I'll ask a bit more about the bigger context: what have you tried recently to relax that/have a more neutral spine? Are you doing anything outside your throws and drills in the gym?

View attachment 335493

2. I have another mechanical pt. that might help your shift but it will be easier if we talk about the above first. I think you need to address the APT first but maybe with a new strategy.

alright, i will try to get some videos on friday that's when my next form session is.

Ill just focus on relaxing my spine more during the whole throw right?

What does «apt» mean also?

 

[Brychanus]

alright, i will try to get some videos on friday that's when my next form session is.

Ill just focus on relaxing my spine more during the whole throw right?

What does «apt» mean also?

APT was short for "anterior pelvic tilt."

Kim, are you doing any exercises in the gym? Part of APT is neuromuscular control. I am considering recommending some exercises. Even if the person is "strong" enough to do the move, sometimes you need to reinforce the way they move more generally.

 

[Kjimsern]

APT was short for "anterior pelvic tilt."

Kim, are you doing any exercises in the gym? Part of APT is neuromuscular control. I am considering recommending some exercises. Even if the person is "strong" enough to do the move, sometimes you need to reinforce the way they move more generally.

I actually have a very strict diet and training regiment with fully body workouts. Upper/lower body split 4 times a week with 4x4 1-2 times a week.

I trained to break a world record in dips 5 years ago so im top 1% in all the baselifts even though i only do most of the weight training to get max strenght to convert it into speed later in season.

And i havent missed a workout either except for when i deload every 6 weeks, if that counts.

I do alot of things from «kneesovertoes» to build mobility and keep my body healthy, he has alot of great excersises.

 

[Brychanus]

What are you doing specifically for lower body & core?

 

[Kjimsern]

What are you doing specifically for lower body & core?

I can probably make a short video of my typical lower and upper body workouts so you can see.

Im starting on max strenght sequence now for 6 weeks, so gonna start lifting very heavy again before the speed phase.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need your spine to change tilt back and forth on the x-step/kick like I talk about in Kick the Can/Ball. Note how I'm doing more of a slalom ski / Ride the Bull move dynamically balanced back and forth rather than overcommitting balance to one direction.

 

[Kjimsern]

You need your spine to change tilt back and forth on the x-step/kick like I talk about in Kick the Can/Ball. Note how I'm doing more of a slalom ski / Ride the Bull move dynamically balanced back and forth rather than overcommitting balance to one direction.

View attachment 335515
View attachment 335514

This made sense to me, i will try it on friday.

 

[Brychanus]

You need your spine to change tilt back and forth on the x-step/kick like I talk about in Kick the Can/Ball. Note how I'm doing more of a slalom ski / Ride the Bull move dynamically balanced back and forth rather than overcommitting balance to one direction.

View attachment 335515

My understanding and way of trying to communicate about this part continues to change.

Do you fundamentally agree that there are a few ways to "skin the cat" posturally and in the X-step as long as the overall function of Figure 8 & Hershyzer locomotion/controlled acceleration and balance are preserved?

E.g., I have Simon's evolution in mind, or Gibson's, where they have clearly tinkered with it quite with the transition move, including the posture transitions, but end up in what you and I would probably call the "same" place.

 

[Kjimsern]

You need your spine to change tilt back and forth on the x-step/kick like I talk about in Kick the Can/Ball. Note how I'm doing more of a slalom ski / Ride the Bull move dynamically balanced back and forth rather than overcommitting balance to one direction.

View attachment 335515
View attachment 335514

Alright, i tried the drills and also one throw focusing on it.

Feels like it helps a little with spine posture, what do you think?

I still have to give this a few weeks though.
Maybe make it a part of my preshoot rutine before i go for the real swing?

 

[Kjimsern]

Hey my dude-

Agree it's better to centralize.
1. We talked a little about your strides & shortening X-step. Though I want to mention that generally extended spine and anterior pelvic tilt moving it off the drive leg makes it harder to get that ideal sudden and compact shift because of the way the leverage changes in the hip sockets. It also makes it harder for the lower part of the spine to swing back and forth a bit like walking naturally.

You've heard this before so I'll ask a bit more about the bigger context: what have you tried recently to relax that/have a more neutral spine? Are you doing anything outside your throws and drills in the gym?

View attachment 335493

2. I have another mechanical pt. that might help your shift but it will be easier if we talk about the above first. I think you need to address the APT first but maybe with a new strategy.

I tried to relax my spine, it made me tip a bit more forward during my stride.

Hmm

 

[sidewinder22]

You are landing open/shifting from in front, instead of closed/shift from behind.

 

[Kjimsern]

You are landing open/shifting from in front, instead of closed/shift from behind.
View attachment 335618

Alright, should be easy enough to fix.
I was superfocused on my spine and footwork, so forgot about that.

 

[Kjimsern]

You are landing open/shifting from in front, instead of closed/shift from behind.
View attachment 335618

I tried again today, i also tested something interesting. I tried to throw really far from a kneeling position and im telling you that really shows how my posture problem is. Leaning alot towards the throw itself and leaking in so many ways ( exagerated though).

i throw 450 feet from my knees but thats with bad posture and power pocket is hugging aswell.

 

[sidewinder22]

Kick the Can - start setup in a normal standing stance. You are starting in a Hershyzer/crossover and then you start by extending your spine so your head is leading/tipping over in your stride instead of your butt leading and spine/head lagging back behind.

 

[Brychanus]

450' from the knees? Why do we even bother with the rest of our legs? Well, I guess you get another 150' from that.

Folks, I am suddenly fascinated by what you can isolate with the kneeling throw and how it might help us help you. Kim, I think I'm going to say similar things to what you've heard before, but maybe if we just cut your legs off at the knees your body we can get you to take this idea faster. I think (hope) this tracks with what SW is trying to help you fix.

Compare your setup and swing pattern to Sadlowski. You already know you had the spine extension and APT:



Ok. But notice that Sadlowski actually starts spine neutral or even slight extension as he gets on his knees. But the important part is that just as the camera cuts from the side view to the front view (which is annoying and I couldn't find a better angle), he very briefly gets more seated toward his heels and relaxes his spine with a bit of flexion/more neutral than you just before he cues up his backswing. You maintain the spine extension. I have a suggestion.

1. Once you get on your knees, focus on (a) relaxing at the lumbar and (b) hinging at the hips and seating back toward your heels just a bit, just like sitting back toward a chair.


2. Here's the other big thing, and what SW & I keep seeing, I think. When Sadlowski bombs that shot, notice (a) the main direction of the ball, (b) the direction of his hands at ~impact, and (c) the direction of the elbow at impact. This is the same as "swinging upward nose down" in disc golf with his whole posture in a nutshell. Notice (d) how dramatically tilted upward his shoulders are to lead the shot. Instead, your move swings "over the top", and takes the hand, elbow, and shot way to the right. In fact, the trajectory of the disc is crossing the orientation of your shoulders, which means I think you have lost the leverage chain between the shoulder and the disc somewhat. Notice that everything in Sadlowski's swing is "inside" of the shoulders at launch. Doesn't matter your intended trajectory - I'm talking about the overall move.


Here's what I want you to try. Do this drill two handed with something heavy like a big brick, but from your knees. I want you to (1) let the brick help force you into less spine extension/relax and sit back like I said above and (2) as you swing back, give your body the feedback to "swing upward nose down" by using your whole body to launch the brick more "forward and up" like loopghost does here.



That is the same exact idea as Sidewinder's Dingle Arm, but with two hands and throwing a brick!

Kim, this is just a fundamentally different move than yours, and I think it's hard for you because of the muscle memory throwing on a more vertical, spinning axis that doesn't have this ultra-efficient pendulum action. Do you need it purely for distance? I mean probably not - you can throw 450' on your knees, my friend. But it is a source of efficient power and likely consistency. Maybe let the knees teach you something new. If not, then something else!

 

[Kjimsern]

Kick the Can - start setup in a normal standing stance. You are starting in a Hershyzer/crossover and then you start by extending your spine so your head is leading/tipping over in your stride instead of your butt leading and spine/head lagging back behind.

450' from the knees? Why do we even bother with the rest of our legs? Well, I guess you get another 150' from that.

Folks, I am suddenly fascinated by what you can isolate with the kneeling throw and how it might help us help you. Kim, I think I'm going to say similar things to what you've heard before, but maybe if we just cut your legs off at the knees your body we can get you to take this idea faster. I think (hope) this tracks with what SW is trying to help you fix.

Compare your setup and swing pattern to Sadlowski. You already know you had the spine extension and APT:

View attachment 335673

Ok. But notice that Sadlowski actually starts spine neutral or even slight extension as he gets on his knees. But the important part is that just as the camera cuts from the side view to the front view (which is annoying and I couldn't find a better angle), he very briefly gets more seated toward his heels and relaxes his spine with a bit of flexion/more neutral than you just before he cues up his backswing. You maintain the spine extension. I have a suggestion.

1. Once you get on your knees, focus on (a) relaxing at the lumbar and (b) hinging at the hips and seating back toward your heels just a bit, just like sitting back toward a chair.
View attachment 335674

2. Here's the other big thing, and what SW & I keep seeing, I think. When Sadlowski bombs that shot, notice (a) the main direction of the ball, (b) the direction of his hands at ~impact, and (c) the direction of the elbow at impact. This is the same as "swinging upward nose down" in disc golf with his whole posture in a nutshell. Notice (d) how dramatically tilted upward his shoulders are to lead the shot. Instead, your move swings "over the top", and takes the hand, elbow, and shot way to the right. In fact, the trajectory of the disc is crossing the orientation of your shoulders, which means I think you have lost the leverage chain between the shoulder and the disc somewhat. Notice that everything in Sadlowski's swing is "inside" of the shoulders at launch. Doesn't matter your intended trajectory - I'm talking about the overall move.

View attachment 335675
Here's what I want you to try. Do this drill two handed with something heavy like a big brick, but from your knees. I want you to (1) let the brick help force you into less spine extension/relax and sit back like I said above and (2) as you swing back, give your body the feedback to "swing upward nose down" by using your whole body to launch the brick more "forward and up" like loopghost does here.



That is the same exact idea as Sidewinder's Dingle Arm, but with two hands and throwing a brick!

Kim, this is just a fundamentally different move than yours, and I think it's hard for you because of the muscle memory throwing on a more vertical, spinning axis that doesn't have this ultra-efficient pendulum action. Do you need it purely for distance? I mean probably not - you can throw 450' on your knees, my friend. But it is a source of efficient power and likely consistency. Maybe let the knees teach you something new. If not, then something else!

Alrigh i will try to get this done today, i have to say we gotta do alot of wierd stuff to get the results.

 

[Kjimsern]

Kick the Can - start setup in a normal standing stance. You are starting in a Hershyzer/crossover and then you start by extending your spine so your head is leading/tipping over in your stride instead of your butt leading and spine/head lagging back behind.

450' from the knees? Why do we even bother with the rest of our legs? Well, I guess you get another 150' from that.

Folks, I am suddenly fascinated by what you can isolate with the kneeling throw and how it might help us help you. Kim, I think I'm going to say similar things to what you've heard before, but maybe if we just cut your legs off at the knees your body we can get you to take this idea faster. I think (hope) this tracks with what SW is trying to help you fix.

Compare your setup and swing pattern to Sadlowski. You already know you had the spine extension and APT:

View attachment 335673

Ok. But notice that Sadlowski actually starts spine neutral or even slight extension as he gets on his knees. But the important part is that just as the camera cuts from the side view to the front view (which is annoying and I couldn't find a better angle), he very briefly gets more seated toward his heels and relaxes his spine with a bit of flexion/more neutral than you just before he cues up his backswing. You maintain the spine extension. I have a suggestion.

1. Once you get on your knees, focus on (a) relaxing at the lumbar and (b) hinging at the hips and seating back toward your heels just a bit, just like sitting back toward a chair.
View attachment 335674

2. Here's the other big thing, and what SW & I keep seeing, I think. When Sadlowski bombs that shot, notice (a) the main direction of the ball, (b) the direction of his hands at ~impact, and (c) the direction of the elbow at impact. This is the same as "swinging upward nose down" in disc golf with his whole posture in a nutshell. Notice (d) how dramatically tilted upward his shoulders are to lead the shot. Instead, your move swings "over the top", and takes the hand, elbow, and shot way to the right. In fact, the trajectory of the disc is crossing the orientation of your shoulders, which means I think you have lost the leverage chain between the shoulder and the disc somewhat. Notice that everything in Sadlowski's swing is "inside" of the shoulders at launch. Doesn't matter your intended trajectory - I'm talking about the overall move.

View attachment 335675
Here's what I want you to try. Do this drill two handed with something heavy like a big brick, but from your knees. I want you to (1) let the brick help force you into less spine extension/relax and sit back like I said above and (2) as you swing back, give your body the feedback to "swing upward nose down" by using your whole body to launch the brick more "forward and up" like loopghost does here.



That is the same exact idea as Sidewinder's Dingle Arm, but with two hands and throwing a brick!

Kim, this is just a fundamentally different move than yours, and I think it's hard for you because of the muscle memory throwing on a more vertical, spinning axis that doesn't have this ultra-efficient pendulum action. Do you need it purely for distance? I mean probably not - you can throw 450' on your knees, my friend. But it is a source of efficient power and likely consistency. Maybe let the knees teach you something new. If not, then something else!

This was a long day for me, it took me so many hours and attempts.

I wont give up, unless you guys do.

Alright, so i tried the loopghost drill. ( i tried the normal variation aswell )

First attempt, spine tilt is way off. 50 tries later i managed to fix that ( hopefully)

Doing the drill from the knees was hard, but i did sit more back and focus on relaxing my spine.

Not sure if i can transfer that to my throw somehow unless you guys know something i dont.

Alright Andrew, i coaches eyed your form and mine on kick the can for 1 hour until i feelt like i did it correctly. ( would be nice if i actually pulled it off now after 789 attempts )

 

[Brychanus]

This was a long day for me, it took me so many hours and attempts.

I wont give up, unless you guys do.

Alright, so i tried the loopghost drill. ( i tried the normal variation aswell )

First attempt, spine tilt is way off. 50 tries later i managed to fix that ( hopefully)

Doing the drill from the knees was hard, but i did sit more back and focus on relaxing my spine.

Not sure if i can transfer that to my throw somehow unless you guys know something i dont.

Alright Andrew, i coaches eyed your form and mine on kick the can for 1 hour until i feelt like i did it correctly. ( would be nice if i actually pulled it off now after 789 attempts )

I'll like SW work on the You were tipping off the rear leg in your first medicine ball toss. The good news is that this is the same posture issue as everything else and you did improve. I want to point out a reminder of what tipping over is. It is keeping your balance over the rear foot and tipping onto the front leg. That's what you did here:


IMHO I think you should be spending a lot of time with getting these medicine balls correct b/c we already see you trending in the right direction, and I think your body needs a lot of reinforcement that the weighted ball can help with. I will show that you need to keep improving your balance while you do it. Let's look at you, loopghost, and Simon.

You can't "see" balance unless you know what to look for and have done it yourself. It is how your head balances over your feet. I will try to show you again.

Left column: the yellow line is where I think your balance is as you shift into the plant. I think it is no longer on your rear foot, but it is between your feet, so you are throwing more stuck behind your brace than those two guys. The green lines show that Loopghost and Simon have their balance all the way forward at this point. Notice that you are still tipping a bit off your rear foot because you left some of your balance behind.

Right column: the yellow line is your balance again. Notice in the orange line that your head didn't make it over top of your front foot because your balance was trapped. Notice also that Loopghost and Simon's rear foot is weightless and their heels are more toward the target, whereas your rear foot spun out with the toes ahead of the heels.



IMO this is still one of the best balance drills ever made because it gets at the fundamental issue. It's the same thing in dance, and the same thing in the backhand. I know you've seen this before, but you fundamentally need to be doing this in your throw as you move from the drive step to the plant. Revisit it often for now. Show us if you are uncertain what I'm trying to get you to do.


For your medicine ball tosses, I would rather see you exaggerate the tilt when you land forward.


You should end up more like this as you release to exaggerate the balance and the correct side bend. Right now you have barely any (too little) side bend. If you add more to your move you will probably feel the ball accelerate faster and more effortlessly.

Last, your knee throws. Good news, I'm starting to see your spine relax more toward neutral. Keep working on that:



The tosses themselves need more of what I mentioned above. It may help you to adjust where you are throwing. Sit in the same position. I don't mind your "normal backswing" and that did look a bit better than either your kneeling throw or the first ball toss. Look at the red lines here, which are your shoulders and the trajectory the ball took. You are still not in braced tilt (like above), and your shoulders come flat "over the top." The green lines are closer to where your shoulders should end up, and where the ball should go (I'm not being exact - notice camera angle is different than the next picture). You want to look much more like Sadlowski. This will feel like your whole body is propelling the ball more "away" from you, and more "up" relative to the ground. Keep working on it, this is battling years of muscle memory!






Almost everyone struggles with this and I don't think many people fully understand it... Hang in there!