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Hammer head should "smash through" the release point somewhere around 10 o'clock and follow through.

There's more in there, but you are going to need to fundamentally change how you move and your balance to access it. My bet is you're going to have trouble doing the action he shows starting ~03:24 here.


You start out kinda ok, but then you revert to the common, very robotic-looking, very flat swing trapped in the horse stance and rotating around your spine. The high-level form shouldn't be "flat" even if you are throwing flatter release angles. Compare your hips and shoulders to Ezra. Notice your rear foot with a lot of pressure still on it when you plant.

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Ezra's and your balance off of the rear foot should feel much more like this:
1693403488148.png

Same thing in McBeth's throw, just turned back more due to the backswing:
1693403604724.png

There is nothing revelatory or IMO controversial in the above. It's just part of how your body should balance and sway in athletic movement. For whatever reason so many of us turn into rigid flat robots trying to throw otherwise.

I recommend in roughly this order:
1. Throw out of more circular motions like these in an open field. First time I threw a Comet 300' out of these with no effort it taught me something important. Do a few when you warm up. Yes, literally jump up and down on one leg and throw. Break the flat habit with an exaggeration in the other extreme.




2. Seabas22 Hershyzer and Door Frame drills, then throw directly out of those moves. You need to learn proper side bend and the feel for the "drop" of your body out of a slightly more pendulum-like move into the plant. See the connection between thee setup in these drills and how Simon or Eagle throw.
1693404088924.png

3. You have a lot to discover in (1) and (2) first. If you insist on x-stepping, spend time with Hammer X Step and Swivel Stairs and Turbo Encabulator and work on the "pendulum" balance. You don't need to end up throwing like a pendulum thrower in the end, but you want to learn why they can generate good power easily.
 
Thank you, as always, for the very detailed and informative feedback, Brychanus. Just practicing a bit here with no disc at home I think I feel what you mean.

I'm determined to get this weight shift down! Will hopefully look much better in my next videos. Will work on the drills you prescribed. The second gif in (1) was what I think helped me to finally feel the lag feeling, just on one leg instead of two. If I can marry that with a better weight shift, hopefully that will lead to the results I'm looking for!
 
Brychanus were pretty fast on that one 😅

I can only speak for what I did when I worked on my BH.

Drills that makes the hand "heavy" is the way to go.

- hammer drills

- windmill drills (as seen with SW)

- throwing heavy stuff.

They each serve a different purpose, while still covering the swing "thought". Timing, balance, posture, the swing, bracing, can't go wrong with them.



Get out to the field and do this drill, if you struggle, SW's hammer drills or aceitdiscgolf (hello brychanus) both got some sweet stuff on their channel.

I would start with one leg (ala the gif of SW) and then incorporate a one step slowly (hammer tosses and windmills throws).

Teach vs feel:

When you throw a heavy object in a pendulum motion, at some point (for me) you have no other option than to "brace for impact", unless you wanna get hurt (in some cases, really bad lol). Front leg braces against the forward momentum, core is tight and the arm has no other option than to hang on for dear life until the "hit" point. Any posture, timing and other "flaws" will suck, cause you'll feel yanks and other stuff immediately. There's plenty of ways to swing and throw a hammer the wrong way (hi brychanus again, I'm still working on getting my release point corrected), but that's not the point at this stage.

You need to feel momentum going into the swing (hand) and then adjust accordingly.

First time I ever felt the "heavy object" in a disc golf throw, I got it out to 430 without even trying (overshot a 330 hyzer shot by a 100 feet lol)

Long story short.

- one leg drills

- posture, balance, weight shift drills

- throw a hammer or another heavy object.

We get too lost in in-depth details, that we forget about the "simplicity". Record yourself throwing a hammer or a heavy bag of some sort and you'll see your form is already 10x times better. Keep it simple!

I'm no SW or brychanus, this is just what I've felt in my own journey.
 
I often aim to point out important details, but cannot agree more with Kennets that the first big keys are get moving more loose and naturally, get your center of mass doing more work in the throw, feel the "heavy" momentum, and get athletic and balanced moving back and forth on your feet. If you get too much of the "deer in the headlights" effect caught in details you can get lost. Throw lots of stuff.
 
Oh and btw - don't go to the field and absolutely smash discs out there! Throw a hammer for x amount of time, then replicate with a disc. It doesn't matter if you throw 150 or 300, it's all about the "feel the heavy hand".
 
Thank you both! You've given me a lot to mull over and practice.

What's a little bit frustrating is that I finally was starting to feel that heavy-hand feeling in the last videos, but it still didn't translate to a big difference. Likely due to the combo of rounding and not planting properly.

I feel like I'm close to getting it, but I've felt that way so many time before lol. Lost my 4 lb hammer by accidently leaving it at the field last time. Need to head to Home Depot :)
 
Thank you both! You've given me a lot to mull over and practice.

What's a little bit frustrating is that I finally was starting to feel that heavy-hand feeling in the last videos, but it still didn't translate to a big difference. Likely due to the combo of rounding and not planting properly.

I feel like I'm close to getting it, but I've felt that way so many time before lol. Lost my 4 lb hammer by accidently leaving it at the field last time. Need to head to Home Depot :)
When someone somehow nicked my sledgehammer (why???), it was like losing a family member (ok, not that bad, but almost).

Keep this in mind when you're struggling.

Remember it takes at least 2-3 weeks for motor learning to solidify with lots of reinforcement, sometimes longer if it's brand new to you as an adult. Choose just 1 or two things at a time and grind away.

I'd be going after the heavy hand/throwing objects freely in open space and door frame drills right now. Get feedback if needed.
 
Hey guys,

Got out to the field a couple of days this week. I've been really working on my weight shift, and would love some feedback on whether or not I'm heading in the right direction. The upper body is still all kinds of messed up. I'm finding it really difficult to weight shit from behind me with my current coil and sidebend. I'm wondering if it's perhaps how I'm lining up or if it's an issue with the drive leg, but I can't seem to stay back all the way into the plant. I feel like I'm getting pulled open early. Could be a flexibility issue with the hips or something. Still rounding badly. I'm trying finding the right amount of side bend, I seem to be bending in the coil better, but kind of standing up out of it when uncoiling. Do I need more left side bend in the uncoil?

First day: Felt better about the weight shift from behind and was seeing better distance. Fairly consistent 375 or so. In reviewing the video felt like I was maybe still tipping over like Brychanus diagnosed last time.

Second day: Going into it I felt like I was finally getting the weight shift. Was incorporating more of a gas pedal motion and I was focusing on driving with back leg into the plant while still coiling backand my practice with just my hand was feeling really good and heavy. Was even getting quite a few Climo-esque finishes with the drive leg bent up in the air to the left in perfect balance over the plant leg. For the life of me, I could not replicate this with a disc in my hand. I was REALLY struggling to stay all the way back this time. Lost about 50 feet of distance from earlier in the week. Definitely experiencing the regression you mentioned in your last post, Brychanus. Was trying to implement more sidebend as well, but I could NOT stay back. Not sure if it's just really hard to keep coiling backwards while gas pedaling the drive leg, or if it's something fundamentally wrong with how I'm doing it (alignment). The way I'm currently shifting almost feels like (and looks like in some cases) I'm hopping off the back foot into the plant. Is this part of my problem? Also had a much greater propensity to throw it straight into the ground (see last two throws)

Would love some feedback on whether weight shift is trending in the right direction. Also, could someone clarify for me the direction/angle of the drive leg foot relative to the target? If I turn the heel more targetward it feels easier to lead with my butt, but am I making it too difficult to turn back around? Should the heel be more perpendicular to target as it lands? Was trying to take a shorter X-step, but kept reverting back to old habits.

With my changes based on the recent feedback I've received, I can feel there's a well of power there to tap into. I've felt very rubber bandy and heavy, but I'm struggling to corral it for my benefit.

Thanks in advance, as always.
 
Practicing a bit more today, and another hypothesis is that I'm not letting my lead hip turn back enough when I start to get on my drive leg. Keeping the plant leg back a little bit longer feels really good.
 
You've got all kinds of posture & sequencing confusion going on and the "deer in the headlights" effect trying to control parts of your body when you move. You get very rigid going tall in your x-step and then everything comes through together in your upper body rather than counter-rotating back all the way until you land in the plant. Can't get proper power out of the core or acceleration that way.

In this case I'd highly recommend backing up to what I suggested above:

"2. Seabas22 Hershyzer and Door Frame drills"

I'd probably go door frame right now. You need to get relaxed and figure out how to get power dropping against the door frame getting pulled taut through your upper body and to the disc.

 
Did write an essay, but had to delete it again (stupid English and me trying to explain stuff). Gonna do this short, lol.

Your xstep is killing everything. You cross way to far for my liking (and your body's), you get stuck on it and you get way to rigid/robotic. In my opinion you could either :

A : absolutely ditch the xstep when you drill and do fieldwork (ofc you can do xstep if you wanna rip one or play a round). I personally think you would benefit from doing one legged drills (doorframe, hershyzer, windmill throws, hammer tosses ). You could incorporate an xstep with the hammer and then do loopghosts windmill drill (with a disc) with an xstep right after you've been dingling the hammer for some time. But I would only suggest that when you really got a feeling of the swing.

B. Continue doing an xstep and STRUGGLE with everything. I'm too dumb to see how it would benefit you at the moment.

I've recently switch from a 5 step walk-up (front pointing towards the target at the first step), to a completely sideways 3 stepper. I found everything is MUCH easier to time, specially the time with the coil, plant and brace. You might find the same feeling if you ditch the xstep or do a sideways 3 step walk-up

Oh and btw. More hammer drills.
 
Thank you both!

I've definitely done/been doing all of the drills you mention, but obviously I've not quite been doing them correctly or I wouldn't still be having these issues. May need to take some video for feedback on them directly and better self analysis.

Just got done playing around with the door frame drill some more and may have figured out a better coiling path. That, paired with lead him turning back/starting turned back more is providing a new feeling that I'm looking forward to testing out.

I appreciate the patience with my struggles!
 
I regret absolutely nothing about all the time I spent/spend on standstills. I still go back to standstills as soon as I find the equivalent problem in my X-step and see if I can improve both.

Usually a version of the same problem applies to both if it has to do with something between the rear leg and planting to throw. My standstills eventually started getting more powerful and reliable on their own and it became easier to make changes more quickly.

X-step adds complexity that is just harder to deal with if you're lacking fundamentals.

I have received hundreds of pointers of feedback on drills, mostly from Sidewinder and others chiming in once in a while to whack me upside the head. I do not regret it. learning this way online is not for everyone.
 
Mate, I've been doing drills forever and when I actually think I'm nailing it, I record myself and I'm still stuck with the same issues as always lol. You and me share some pretty common issues that's hard to fix/switch muscle memory.

The "stuck on rear leg" you got going on, I battled that for over a year and at that time, I worked hard on my form. It's hard, but you'll absolutely get there!

I've been lurking on most form threads, picking up what SW and brychanus have said and then spend lots of time comparing myself in said drills and stillframes. Brychanus worked intensively on door frame drill in his form thread, whilst getting a new one ripped by SW - definitely worth a visit when you're working on yours too.

At the moment I'm treating my footwork as a dance/sports/ the game of "tag" with very clear progress (with very tired legs)
 
Hey guys,

Back again with another form video, asking for help!

I've been working hard on my weight shift. Taken several form videos between now and my last post, but didn't feel like I'd made enough progress to warrant posting them. I've still got a lot of work to do, but I think I've made some improvements in the last couple of weeks. I hoping my weight shift is looking a little better, but would love your thoughts!

I've finally been able to get the feeling of the disc being pulled in centripetally. I'm still working on my balance and positioning to get it deeper in the pocket for longer, but I'm finally not just instantly opening up/rounding. Elbow finally feels like it hinges, disc is pulling inward, and wants to open up kind of like a backhand smack. I can get this backhand feeling in particular better with no disc in my hand, but the more I turn and shift my weight while facing backwards I can still get something of the feeling with a disc.

Improvements were due largely in part to making the weight shift feel like a left handed baseball swing, as well feeling like both my feet are twisting/torqueing counter clockwise like in Mike Maves in The Move video.

I was throwing things way more nose up than normal, so that was hurting my distance some. Didn't really see a huge distance improvement, but it felt much easier in my arms. Taking that as a step in the right direction. Thinking the nose up is partly due to coming over the top for so long and learning how to get the nose down from that angle. Need to get used to this new swing plane and how to keep it nose down relative to that. Still feel like I'm not 'ringing the bell' with my hips, and I'm struggling to get the leg sweeping behind me feeling. Seems like it's still kind of stuck behind me. Again it feels closer the more I shift from behind, so maybe that's the key? Also need to better manage where I'm sending my butt/weight to better sit into the plant with the right tilt. Seem to be starting the downswing a bit too early before fully planted, which probably isn't helping matters.

If you have tips on my feelings above, or if you see something I'm not, I'd really appreciate any feedback!
 
Also, I apologize for not including a video of my current standstill. I definitely did a metric ****ton of them as per previous advice, and I definitely think it's been helping.
 
Somewhat better than before.

Note how your head/chest/spine is extending so you have no forward compression of the chest/head over the disc/foot/hip.
Note how Simon pushes his right knee back to the east which clears the hip to the east while his chest/head stay compressed/tilted forward over top the front foot/hip and disc.
SC talks about the forward chest compression in tilted spiral 2.
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