Form check RHBH

[semisensei]

Yes, thanks! Such a more natural feel with the left leg relaxing into the coil rather than awkwardly extending and sending me tipping forward. The shuffle step is intentional- my x-step was getting me into trouble, I think because my "heave" off the right leg was sending my left foot too far forward, leaving the disc too far behind it and "out of frame." This was leading to a swoop or upward bounce of the disc at the top of the downswing, which would lead to nose up or a lot of wobble.
Moving consciously to the shuffle style has really helped with my nose up/wobble issues and "connected" feel throughout the throw.

 

[Brychanus]

If you are sticking with the side shuffle for now, notice that KT has her body more completely ahead of her drive leg - a bit more aggressive like Feldberg in transition. That's part of why she gets more clean action accelerating directly into the plant. My hunch is you're going to have a little trouble with that and it'll help make some of the remaining posture issue a little more obvious to your body. Notice also her shoulders are a little more parallel to the line her body is moving and she doesn't really start to fully coil until her rear foot hits the ground. I'm trying to get your whole assembly there to "ride the bull" into that abrupt shift better.

Be careful with the side shuffle - I don't know how to verify this but I still have the hunch some versions of this form makes the elbow and shoulder a little more vulnerable. I like that your swing is looking nice and controlled but also free swanging.

 

[semisensei]

Brychanus, you are truly a gem! Thanks so much for the illustrative pics. That's a great focus to bring to my next session.

Could you expand on why you think the shuffle rhythm is harder on the arm than an x-step?

 

[SHIZZLER]

Rebuilding my form at 50

Aloha and Good evening! Recently got back into the game of DG and I have been working on my driving form since last December. This link will show where I started and where I am currently. Pif you should happen to watch, feel free to let me know.

Thank you in advance.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRKL7dBk/

 

[Brychanus]

Brychanus, you are truly a gem! Thanks so much for the illustrative pics. That's a great focus to bring to my next session.

Could you expand on why you think the shuffle rhythm is harder on the arm than an x-step?

YW, hope it helps. I'm kind of curious what overall posture adjustments do for you here since they've always been important parts of my own development. SW's creativity there never ceases to amaze me.

I'm not fully convinced the side shuffle step is always harder yet, but it's more about the mechanics and postures it puts the body in than the rhythm I worry about. If you shuffle and still want to get good swing leverage, you still need to load back like door frame drill or inside swing etc. When you do that, if the rear knee doesn't cross behind, you still need to get leverage through your legs and hips. So when you load back, you will tend have a more aggressive "inline" load directly back behind you (you can see that in KT or Isaac below). Then when you land and swing, since the hips weren't setup to clear as easily in "The Move", I think it might be prone to causing more jerk stress in the shoulder or elbow. It seems a little different than the true crow hop in that regard, which gets the whole body more forward, but I'm still thinking it through.

There's also a little confirmation bias in there since I was thinking about this topic months before KT needed elbow surgery but that's just one case and she does a couple other things that might be related. Seppo also doesn't cross the knee behind and had shoulder issues, but also uses a more pronounced in-out-in move into the plant with his long legs than KT. He also tends to truncate his backswing. All I have to go on otherwise is tinkering around with it myself. So I think it's possible it can work out, but just mind where you feel any jerk stress or next day soreness.

Last tidbit: I got more interested in this again when I started comparing the shuffle hoppers to x-hoppers. In general I think creating more space and opportunities for torque (like the X) comes with more advantages for effortless power. On the flip side, it means that players like PP and McBeth are putting a lot more force through their bodies, so even if you could throw like them with very clean form you'd still want to mind wear and tear (or maybe you don't care if you plan to be done by 40 y/o). I can definitely say that the smoother my form has gotten the easier it has been for overuse to creep up on me while developing mechanics that allow more of this low-effort "space" - managing more and more force over time.

 

[semisensei]

Brychanus, you pointing out my posture issues was spot on. I've recently been playing with a more forward tilted posture throughout the x-step and I've seen amazing results. My focus the last several sessions has been to maintain my CoG and the disc in front of my leverage points against the ground (ie feet) at all times until the plant. This has meant a conscious effort to reach my left shoulder FORWARD during the stride/coil/backswing rather than letting the right arm/shoulder lag back in order to maintain that forward tilted axis.

I finally reached my goal today of throwing a disc across an entire football field and through the uprights on the far end! Stoked.

https://youtu.be/yIikW5PGIJU

Last shot is a fun clip from the unofficial hole 19 at Pier Park, which pushed 500' until it hit the trees on the far end. There was significant elevation involved so I'm not claiming anything official, but it was definitely my furthest drive off this little classic launch point.

Still working on getting the feel and the timing consistent, but this definitely is a breakthrough for me.

I realize what I had been doing before was sending my feet out in front of me during the x-step, causing my CoG to be way behind my plant leg, which then ends up absorbing most of my momentum rather than shooting it upward. The lightbulb clicked for me when I watched a Calvin drive in slow mo: he keeps his head in front of his feet through the x step. I, on the other hand, would start "head first" but as I x-step and I begin the backswing, my upper body stays still as my feet travel forward before I plant with a kind of "hockey stop" feel.
Now, with the more "head first" lean through the x-step, my plant feels like it's catching my body from falling forward, and my body naturally unwinds and blasts the disc simply as a way to maintain balance- it feels like I am most wound up ("tense" isn't the right word, but there's more tension) in that door frame drill moment before the plant (key feel for me here is to feel like my left foot is just OUTSIDE the door frame rather than inside it, where my body is) and then everything relaxes and unwinds as momentum transfers through the whip and into the disc.

I see now that why my change to the shuffle step from the x-step helped so much was because it is easier to maintain that forward tilting axis/posture: when I shuffle, or mini x-step, I can better keep my left foot leveraged behind my CoG. With the x-step I tended to let the left foot get too far out in front.

I feel like I want to just get a bunch more reps in with this new feel, but I am curious what other things I might want to focus on. I am thinking the left arm still could use some work in the swim move, for one, but as always- have at it! Thanks y'all

 

[Brychanus]

Brychanus, you pointing out my posture issues was spot on. I've recently been playing with a more forward tilted posture throughout the x-step and I've seen amazing results. My focus the last several sessions has been to maintain my CoG and the disc in front of my leverage points against the ground (ie feet) at all times until the plant. This has meant a conscious effort to reach my left shoulder FORWARD during the stride/coil/backswing rather than letting the right arm/shoulder lag back in order to maintain that forward tilted axis.

I finally reached my goal today of throwing a disc across an entire football field and through the uprights on the far end! Stoked.

https://youtu.be/yIikW5PGIJU

Last shot is a fun clip from the unofficial hole 19 at Pier Park, which pushed 500' until it hit the trees on the far end. There was significant elevation involved so I'm not claiming anything official, but it was definitely my furthest drive off this little classic launch point.

Still working on getting the feel and the timing consistent, but this definitely is a breakthrough for me.

I realize what I had been doing before was sending my feet out in front of me during the x-step, causing my CoG to be way behind my plant leg, which then ends up absorbing most of my momentum rather than shooting it upward. The lightbulb clicked for me when I watched a Calvin drive in slow mo: he keeps his head in front of his feet through the x step. I, on the other hand, would start "head first" but as I x-step and I begin the backswing, my upper body stays still as my feet travel forward before I plant with a kind of "hockey stop" feel.
Now, with the more "head first" lean through the x-step, my plant feels like it's catching my body from falling forward, and my body naturally unwinds and blasts the disc simply as a way to maintain balance- it feels like I am most wound up ("tense" isn't the right word, but there's more tension) in that door frame drill moment before the plant (key feel for me here is to feel like my left foot is just OUTSIDE the door frame rather than inside it, where my body is) and then everything relaxes and unwinds as momentum transfers through the whip and into the disc.

I see now that why my change to the shuffle step from the x-step helped so much was because it is easier to maintain that forward tilting axis/posture: when I shuffle, or mini x-step, I can better keep my left foot leveraged behind my CoG. With the x-step I tended to let the left foot get too far out in front.

I feel like I want to just get a bunch more reps in with this new feel, but I am curious what other things I might want to focus on. I am thinking the left arm still could use some work in the swim move, for one, but as always- have at it! Thanks y'all

Everything I've learned about posture is directly from SW and his links so if I'm ever right, I'll forward the credit receipt. I stand on the shoulder of the giant, who should stomp on me wherever needed.

For you, I think you're getting the antidote to "leany leaner" syndrome cooking. Don't make my mistake and back off. That's part of the secret sauce and I always need to keep battling through it too.

I am going to go after a posture thing that starts before transition to nip it in the bud. Since we were talking about feldy and SW this stuck out right away as something that might connect for you. I think you've got a bit of tipping off the rear leg or what Clement calls "blowing the side of the kettle off." Keep the "pressure" on the rear side in your upper body more like Dave relative to the disc without spoiling that forward leverage. Also go back now and look at SW in the E-walk thread and see how he's achieving the same thing even though there are a couple minor differences and he might be a little "too rotational" per his own words.

This is hard to learn. But it also helps you coil more in transition so you get more power when you land and swing the pendulum forward. It may end up being a battle back and forth for you to get both the aggressive forward part and the backswing to jive together. But man, the good ones are good.

 

[semisensei]

Thanks, Brychanus. Is the idea that my left shoulder is already beginning to rise/coil back when my weight lands on the left foot, causing a power leak? Would you mind linking that Clement video you mentioned? Thanks again!

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks, Brychanus. Is the idea that my left shoulder is already beginning to rise/coil back when my weight lands on the left foot, causing a power leak? Would you mind linking that Clement video you mentioned? Thanks again!

It looks to me like it's a little bit of not quite achieving ideal side bend all the way coiling back and/or just not keeping the complete "pressure through the chest trapping the disc" in transition, so the shoulder ends up kind of swinging a little too much up and back posturally. On second look I think yours is more the "pot blowing off the lid" like he talks about here:

https://youtu.be/2DMwiBkvrkg?t=508

I used to have that problem much more significantly too and working with two-handed swings then taking the rear arm away helped alot (medicine ball, rod, club, hammer). I still work on it a bit since it tends to get dodgier in transition when the feet are moving and I'm focusing on getting the shift more aggressive forward like you are working on. I now think everyone has at least one "sweet spot" they can find in principle.

You don't need to think "hunch" like Feldy tends to look due to his physical issues. Actually this made me remember this image of KT, which could be helpful for you given your current form. Look at her rear shoulder and posture in transition and see if you can relate it to what Clement is talking about/doing. You might also play a little with getting a tiny bit taller in the X part so you can find your balance at a slightly slower tempo while you nail the backswing down since you're hopping anyway. That started to help me more quickly recently. It has been increasingly my swing efficiency quickly focusing on throwing putters on short tees and it scales well for power.

Have I made every possible disc golf form mistake that has ever happened? How many are left? SW, how the hell did you do it? Geez.

 

[sidewinder22]

Door Frame Drill/Bow & Arrow. You need to hold on to frame and walk your rear foot out so lead shoulder gets pulled/loaded back.