Whether live coverage or post-produced, the model that most of the companies have today is not very sustainable long-term. I wonder/question if and when the single individuals driving each one has a life situation which doesn't allow them logistically to continue at the same level, can/will the company continue doing it? Kinda like when Steve Dodge left Vibram and what happened? Or when John Deusler left Terra Firma Media? Or going back to the beginning, when Steady Ed left Wham-O and the big disc golf tournaments suddenly lost their biggest sponsor?
I just have an opinion, or should I say, position, regarding disc golf coverage. First, I am not pointing at or calling out anyone specifically. I am simply stating in general that it is very unrealistic to expect something for nothing. That is, not exactly the same, but very similar to the welfare mentality. I stated in other posts, that I was very willing as an organizational leader to listen to the suggestions of anyone in the business who had an idea of how to make our organization better; my only stipulation was that if they brought a problem to me, they should also bring with it a possible solution and that solution should include what they themselves would either contribute or sacrifice to make that solution happy.
And therein lies my struggle with people who complain, offer negative comments, or even offer comments which they see as constructive to our current offerings of disc golf coverage. These guys are busting their tails, struggling on shallow budgets, looking for volunteers to help with what is (I suspect) a losing-money-proposition, at least in its current form, while 95% of we consumers do not deliver on assisting with the cost. We'll pay for most of our other entertainment, especially that which is delivered online or on cable TV, yet, most of us won't for disc golf. That just doesn't sound right. It's not like silly videos to make us laugh, that the person hopes to someday be their own YOUTUBE sensation; these guys are catering to a specific niche audience -- discgolfers. And it only seems right to support them with either time or money, ESPECIALLY, if you'll be critical of them.
Perhaps jvphobic, Royalhghnss, TheDiscGolfGuy, Jomez, or others with more detailed/intimate knowledge of the financial model can come on this forum and add to the discussion. I am not changing my comments from previously ... HERE, HERE, and HERE are some links if you wish to go back and see what was previously stated. However, I will respond on this thread to previously pointed out comments directed specifically at me.
I welcome a discussion of what you guys currently think of the fiscal model. I struggle with people who think they are doing just fine: I don't. I think they are lowballing their own prices, simply because they love disc golf so much, and hopefully, just like Bobby CDSB back in the day, they are eyeing (more like hping for) a bigger prize on down the line. But here's a question, if some nationally known music artist or other celebrity called Jonathan Gomez and said, hey, we've seen your work in the disc golf arena and we want you to be our tour's videographer for about $20,000 a month for the next 18 months, does disc golf coverage change? Or can it be sustained?
NOW moving on...
You really think a paying member of on online forum is comparable? I just think you were trying to make a point. And I get your point. But there's a big difference in costs between a one-time cost to set up an online forum followed my monthly monitoring and maintenance in a single location VS for each event traveling to a site, doing drone videos, prepping graphics, getting familiar with the course and lines enough to have cameras in the right place, physically following them around during the round, capturing video, editing it, providing voice-over commentary time and recording etc, and getting it turned over within 30 hours. Add in live coverage and then there are also even more costs in terms of manpower, equipment, and resources.
Before I go on, I will clearly state that I have not said anywhere that you nor anyone else specifically is a non-contributor to the Patreon accounts. My comments are general in nature and are geared toward the "I-want-something-for-nothing" crowd. I do not know if you or anyone else is in that group, and I don't need to know. [Given some of the comments/responses I've gotten, the famous line, "Methinks thou doth protest too much" comes to mind.] I, myself don't contribute to all of their Patreons; I think that would be spreading the resources too thin and I, like everyone, can only contribute so much money. However, comparing supporting the stand-alone vendors of a specific event to the people producing coverage is also a comparison that is not close to the same – particularly in terms of cost. Plus people don't get on these forums and criticize or complained about the Innovs vendor, the Black Ink Discs vendor, the Bearded Bros Bars vendor, etc. like they find criticism of disc golf coverage.
I doubt that the ads cover the cost of coverage. I know that for the event I helped work on we had a sponsor (one year it was two) pay for the post production coverage. The ads within were nice and they help a little, but even those I am not sure are sustainable. We cater to a specific crowd and a DD ad isn't likely to get me or most discgolfers to change by Innova discs, nor is a Discraft ad gonna convince me to change my Prodigy discs and vice versa. Those guys are just being nice to pay for a small ad, (you know the grow-the-sport, be supportive mentality) but long-term, that model is not sustainable. You took on my premise (which you missed it btw), but I am not sure what your premise is. If it relates to as space pays for coverage, then I will apologize if I'm wrong, I just don't think that the ads come close. It sounds like you believe the ads model IS sustainable long term and you think that eventually the "value of the ad space will catch up" to the point where coverage is profitable solely with ads and Pateron accounts will no longer be needed. Again, I mat be wrong, but I just think that thought is so off-base logistically. Maybe we can get a comment from Jomez, jvphobic, TheDiscGolfGuy, Royalhghnss, and others
I just have an opinion, or should I say, position, regarding disc golf coverage. First, I am not pointing at or calling out anyone specifically. I am simply stating in general that it is very unrealistic to expect something for nothing. That is, not exactly the same, but very similar to the welfare mentality. I stated in other posts, that I was very willing as an organizational leader to listen to the suggestions of anyone in the business who had an idea of how to make our organization better; my only stipulation was that if they brought a problem to me, they should also bring with it a possible solution and that solution should include what they themselves would either contribute or sacrifice to make that solution happy.
And therein lies my struggle with people who complain, offer negative comments, or even offer comments which they see as constructive to our current offerings of disc golf coverage. These guys are busting their tails, struggling on shallow budgets, looking for volunteers to help with what is (I suspect) a losing-money-proposition, at least in its current form, while 95% of we consumers do not deliver on assisting with the cost. We'll pay for most of our other entertainment, especially that which is delivered online or on cable TV, yet, most of us won't for disc golf. That just doesn't sound right. It's not like silly videos to make us laugh, that the person hopes to someday be their own YOUTUBE sensation; these guys are catering to a specific niche audience -- discgolfers. And it only seems right to support them with either time or money, ESPECIALLY, if you'll be critical of them.
Perhaps jvphobic, Royalhghnss, TheDiscGolfGuy, Jomez, or others with more detailed/intimate knowledge of the financial model can come on this forum and add to the discussion. I am not changing my comments from previously ... HERE, HERE, and HERE are some links if you wish to go back and see what was previously stated. However, I will respond on this thread to previously pointed out comments directed specifically at me.
I welcome a discussion of what you guys currently think of the fiscal model. I struggle with people who think they are doing just fine: I don't. I think they are lowballing their own prices, simply because they love disc golf so much, and hopefully, just like Bobby CDSB back in the day, they are eyeing (more like hping for) a bigger prize on down the line. But here's a question, if some nationally known music artist or other celebrity called Jonathan Gomez and said, hey, we've seen your work in the disc golf arena and we want you to be our tour's videographer for about $20,000 a month for the next 18 months, does disc golf coverage change? Or can it be sustained?
NOW moving on...
I do love the hypocrisy inherent within your post, given that you are arguing for people to support coverage on Patreon rather than expecting it for the cost of the Innova, Black Ink Discs, Bearded Bros Bars, Cali Connections, PacWest Disc Golf, and a variety of other commercials and ads which were paid to help provide the coverage and only actually have value if people watch the videos (as I said in the Las Vegas thread, anyone viewing the videos increases the value of these spots, which increases the amount the channel can charge, which generates more revenue. Just look at the mess the NFL is in currently), or rather that they should be ignored or discounted since they are not contributing extra money, and yet you are on the forum for free, rather than having purchased any sort of tiered membership which helps keep this forum and course database running in addition to the one banner ad at the top of each page (not that I have a problem with the banner ad, just for consistency of the argument's sake).
DGCR Store
And I am a patreon of both CCDG and Jomez (since we're putting that out there), although I'm not a Patreon of Smashboxx. However, that might soon change, since I did actually enjoy watching the live stream today (splicing in FPO coverage fills the dead air so well), but we'll see man.
If you would like to support this forum as well, you can purchase a membership in the store, which is in the banner above or can be found at the link below:
DGCR Store
I will also say that the Jomez and CCDG boys make money off ads, which only have value if people watch the videos. Yeah, it doesn't fully help cover the bills, and kicking more money into the pot is great, BUT for them to even make some money or for it to be worth it to Innova or Dynamic or MVP or whoever to pay them to go film a tournament, people first and foremost have to watch for that money to have actually accomplished anything.
So what I'm trying to say is, your whole basic premise of people who don't pay into the Patreon not really being part of what helps financially support these guys simply is not actually true. Any John Q Smith or Jane Q Doe who watches the videos helps support these channels because those added views increase the value of the advertising spots they sell, which allows them to make more money (and actually will reduce and ultimately eliminate the need for Patreon if the ad slots become valuable enough).
You really think a paying member of on online forum is comparable? I just think you were trying to make a point. And I get your point. But there's a big difference in costs between a one-time cost to set up an online forum followed my monthly monitoring and maintenance in a single location VS for each event traveling to a site, doing drone videos, prepping graphics, getting familiar with the course and lines enough to have cameras in the right place, physically following them around during the round, capturing video, editing it, providing voice-over commentary time and recording etc, and getting it turned over within 30 hours. Add in live coverage and then there are also even more costs in terms of manpower, equipment, and resources.
Before I go on, I will clearly state that I have not said anywhere that you nor anyone else specifically is a non-contributor to the Patreon accounts. My comments are general in nature and are geared toward the "I-want-something-for-nothing" crowd. I do not know if you or anyone else is in that group, and I don't need to know. [Given some of the comments/responses I've gotten, the famous line, "Methinks thou doth protest too much" comes to mind.] I, myself don't contribute to all of their Patreons; I think that would be spreading the resources too thin and I, like everyone, can only contribute so much money. However, comparing supporting the stand-alone vendors of a specific event to the people producing coverage is also a comparison that is not close to the same – particularly in terms of cost. Plus people don't get on these forums and criticize or complained about the Innovs vendor, the Black Ink Discs vendor, the Bearded Bros Bars vendor, etc. like they find criticism of disc golf coverage.
I doubt that the ads cover the cost of coverage. I know that for the event I helped work on we had a sponsor (one year it was two) pay for the post production coverage. The ads within were nice and they help a little, but even those I am not sure are sustainable. We cater to a specific crowd and a DD ad isn't likely to get me or most discgolfers to change by Innova discs, nor is a Discraft ad gonna convince me to change my Prodigy discs and vice versa. Those guys are just being nice to pay for a small ad, (you know the grow-the-sport, be supportive mentality) but long-term, that model is not sustainable. You took on my premise (which you missed it btw), but I am not sure what your premise is. If it relates to as space pays for coverage, then I will apologize if I'm wrong, I just don't think that the ads come close. It sounds like you believe the ads model IS sustainable long term and you think that eventually the "value of the ad space will catch up" to the point where coverage is profitable solely with ads and Pateron accounts will no longer be needed. Again, I mat be wrong, but I just think that thought is so off-base logistically. Maybe we can get a comment from Jomez, jvphobic, TheDiscGolfGuy, Royalhghnss, and others