Help me throw discs gooder!

[AtomicDom]

Super big thanks for this ^. I had seen the first part of that video but didn't know about the second. In terms of disc golf, should I take this as meaning the front leg(or hip?) should be resisting the torque being generated by the rear leg turning inwards?

All this time I had no idea at all that the front leg should be resisting anything, I thought it was just supposed to clear out of the way. Goes to show how even the smallest of details really matter.

Tbh, the smallest of gains have me optimistic, but my level of obsession with figuring this out is getting close to loony. I wake up, think about my form, go to work, think about my form, eat food, think about form, sleep, dream about form.

I was feeling really discouraged before today, but I'm hoping the little breakthroughs today will lead to some bigger ones soon.

 

[AtomicDom]

I also have a question on grip, as I saw a lot of wobbly and overturned throws today so I think my grip may be hindering me some.

The way I've been holding a disc is like the standard power grip.

The pressure that's holding the disc in my hand is between the pad of the thumb on top, just outside the rim of the disc, and the last crease of the index finger joint (last crease before tip of the finger). It feels ok, but I feel like it would be impossible for me to grip the disc any tighter than I do already in terms of holding through the hit. I also feel like most of the time the disc ends up resting in my palm up until the throw and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Should the disc be held by more extended fingers?

Thanks again!

 

[sidewinder22]

Super big thanks for this ^. I had seen the first part of that video but didn't know about the second. In terms of disc golf, should I take this as meaning the front leg(or hip?) should be resisting the torque being generated by the rear leg turning inwards?

All this time I had no idea at all that the front leg should be resisting anything, I thought it was just supposed to clear out of the way. Goes to show how even the smallest of details really matter.

You have to resist somewhat to maintain dynamic balance(brace), once you are balanced on the front you pretty much automatically clear.

Tbh, the smallest of gains have me optimistic, but my level of obsession with figuring this out is getting close to loony. I wake up, think about my form, go to work, think about my form, eat food, think about form, sleep, dream about form.

I was feeling really discouraged before today, but I'm hoping the little breakthroughs today will lead to some bigger ones soon.

I think most of us here have been through or going through that obsession.

 

[sidewinder22]

I also have a question on grip, as I saw a lot of wobbly and overturned throws today so I think my grip may be hindering me some.

The way I've been holding a disc is like the standard power grip.

The pressure that's holding the disc in my hand is between the pad of the thumb on top, just outside the rim of the disc, and the last crease of the index finger joint (last crease before tip of the finger). It feels ok, but I feel like it would be impossible for me to grip the disc any tighter than I do already in terms of holding through the hit. I also feel like most of the time the disc ends up resting in my palm up until the throw and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Should the disc be held by more extended fingers?

Thanks again!

Time for the 2 finger grip. Changing body positions and timing should happen to throw with the 2 finger where you want it to go. You are misconceiving some things about holding on, you should be driving the disc around.

 

[slowplastic]

Time for the 2 finger grip. Changing body positions and timing should happen to throw with the 2 finger where you want it to go. You are misconceiving some things about holding on, you should be driving the disc around.

This is true. As long as your disc is aligned correctly to your forearm and things are in plane, then wobble and bad releases are a lot to do with timing. If you have a griplock, it's because of bad timing/body position...not suddenly having super strong hands. Same with early releases, it's often because of moving too fast too soon.

 

[AtomicDom]

Gonna try the two finger next practice session. My friend says that he presses the disc against the thumb part of his palm instead of the middle of the palm. Is that what I should be aiming for?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, there's some variations, but generally middle of the palm is not where you want the disc, it should be higher.

 

[AtomicDom]

Still hitting a wall with getting snap on any kind of a consistent basis. I've read all of the Snap 2009 thread and a few others.

I believe I understand the concept fully but cannot for the life of me, implement it fully.

I've seen the thread on drills to help learn snap, should I just concentrate on that thread until I've made progress? Any other helpful videos or links? I'm really getting to wits end trying to see some progress. My accuracy has certainly improved since I've started this, but surely my distance has suffered.

Thanks again all

 

[sidewinder22]

Have you got your elbow forward yet? "Going from back here, to up here adds anywhere from 60 to 100' or more." - Masterbeto

Would also suggest reading the thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

 

[AtomicDom]

I've decided to simplify things. I realize that if I don't learn to generate snap consistently, there's no point in working on anything else.

I'm working on the "incomplete technique" by Blake T. I do betos pec drill when doing field work.

I'm still stuck on drill #1 at this point and I do that until my finger starts to get sore.

For kicks, to try and simulate the feeling, I had my Father give me a little lesson in hammering nails. He's a carpenter by trade for over 20 years, so I thought he could give me some insight on proper hammering.

Somethings I noticed, his upper arm/ forearm stay at nearly a 90 degree angle the entire swing. Though the elbow did open a little right before impact. The motion seemed to be completely driven by the upper arm falling, then the wrist opening. I could definitely feel the strength of the wrist opening, driving the hammer down harder than with just the arm. This was also noticeable because the difference of how far down the nail was driven by using the wrist action. Much further than with just arm.

Unfortunately, I still can't seem to translate this with my disc via the secret technique. But I'm pledged to do whatever it takes to " get it" at this point. I'll try to post more video next time I make it out. It's been rainy in Kentucky most of the week so didn't get to get much outdoor practice in.

 

[AtomicDom]

Moving in the Right Direction...

It's been a while since I've posted an update, I'm finding that it's harder to record myself than I thought (Getting a good angle, lighting, etc.)

So I've got two videos here, One of BH and one for FH. I started thinking a few weeks ago that if I'm going to spend as much time as I am, working on my BH form, it only made sense to try and work on FH as well. My FH game has never been strong and for good reason as I would hardly ever throw that way unless it was a short to medium upshot. I'm starting to be able to get about 200'-225' on a good FH with an overstable driver (A Firebird or Destroyer usually). I know that overstable drivers with cover up form flaws, so that's mainly for when I'm playing a round and going for as much distance as I can muster.

As always, I super appreciate all the feedback and help some of you guys give. Especially you SW22. I'm sure you get tired of telling internet disc jockeys the same things over and over and over, but I appreciate you doing it nonetheless to help some poor souls like mine that have never been to a real DG clinic or had anyone to teach them in person.



Some things that I noticed while analyzing my own video:

- I do still round on occasion, but I know that it's a lot less often than I used to, so I'm breaking the habit slowly. It's to the point now that I almost instantly know when I've done it before the disc leaves my hand.

- I know that my brace has gotten better, but it's still not there yet. I know that I'm not forcing my lateral momentum all into it, probably leaking power in that manner.

- Noseup angle issues still prevail, I've made some improvements; moved my grip a little and pushing down the disc with the tip of my thumb more.

- Elbow Extension. Again, better than it used to be, but still not far enough.

- Wrist Rollover. Not something that happens often anymore, but seems to sneak in when I'm getting tired.




I haven't gotten to the point of completely understanding FH form, so I'll leave that analysis to the experts.


Again, Huge thanks to all you guys/girls out there helping Rec players like me move up.

 

[sidewinder22]

I was about to repost the Head Position and Lag video, you are still turning your head ahead of your body so there's no anchor to swing and release your arm from.

In your backswing you are moving your body and arm all away from the target at the same time. You need an equal and opposite motion to load, so your body moves targetward while the arm/disc stays in place or moves backward.







Your FH grip looks a little funny and swing through really high(high shoulder) without much of a reachback with the elbow. You need to tilt yourself into a more athletic position so your shoulder comes through much lower like a short stop or 3rd base player picking up a grounder and throwing to 1st base on the run and swinging through your center of gravity.

 

[AtomicDom]

Really appreciate the quick reply SW, I actually was just watching the Stokley clinic vids yesterday. I'll get to work incorporating this in my field work tomorrow.

The FH grip I'm using is the power grip, with bent forefinger, middle finger extended along the rim.

 

[AtomicDom]

Curious about something Stokley says in his clinic vid. He says that starting out you should try NOT to follow through. More like snapping a towel. I've always seen that stopping your motion isn't good for the body or form in most respects. I have nothing against Scott and appreciate him putting his clinic vids out there but is this something I should do?

Edit: In regards to Forehand. (Duh, maybe include an important detail.)

 

[sidewinder22]

It could be a feel ain't real thing because you feel the disc spring from your hand, or he is just saying you don't want to be spinning around. IMO he is following through, it looks quite similar to mine. To me it's the same motion as skipping stones, throwing a football or hammer sidearm, SS throwing to 1st base. I don't focus on a follow through, it just happens.

 

[AtomicDom]

you are still turning your head ahead of your body so there's no anchor to swing and release your arm from.

In your backswing you are moving your body and arm all away from the target at the same time. You need an equal and opposite motion to load, so your body moves targetward while the arm/disc stays in place or moves backward.

I've had some time to think about some of these concepts and I'm still reaching some issues in understanding/implementation.

If the head is an anchor point, does that mean I should feel as though my shoulders are turning around my spine while my head stays in place? Is this a feeling I'll have to resist to keep it there or should that come naturally when other aspects of the throw are correct?

I think I've reached a point where I understand what I'm doing wrong, I just don't know what exactly to adjust. What feeling I should be getting in different areas at different times.

Bracing, I think is troublesome for me for two reasons. I was a right handed hitter in baseball so everything feels really weird to recreate a lefty's swing. This also seems to be something that's mostly done by "feel".

Some questions on bracing:

Should the brace feel like I'm trying to balance all the weight transfer into my heel? Will I feel like I'm just balancing on one foot? I can do the can crush drill, but often I look like my weight is to far back and to my right.

Does that mean I should aim to have the weight transfer more inside my plant leg thigh? When I practice a brace, no pivot or disc in hand, I feel pressure on my outside hip/lower butt but I don't feel that being transferred into a more forceful throw so I figure that must not be right.

Some other ?s:

I know that forward weight transfer shouldn't begin until after planting. Should I be transferring weight at the exact same time as turning my rear leg inwards? Turning the rear leg inwards, should this feel like I'm trying to fold my hips in half but my plant leg is resisting until the pivot happens?

Sorry for so many questions at once. I really don't have anyone to bounce things off of except for one buddy I play with regularly. Yes better than I am and has cleaner form, but isn't great at explaining what he's feeling or what/when he's doing things.

I think I may have fixed some of my grip issues while having a long discussion on grip with a friend. It definitely feels more comfortable and I threw a 300' drive when I had a good nosedown release.

I was hoping to be a little further in practice than this by now. I have a tournament next week in Frankfort, KY. I feel I haven't made as much progress as I would like but I do feel I'm further along than a few months ago when I registered for it.

I will say that since taking on this endeavor my accuracy has greatly increased since my days of strong arming every throw. Then, I hit my line maybe 3 or 4 times out of ten. Now it's more like 7 to 8 out of ten.

Thanks again SW and everyone else.

 

[sidewinder22]

I've had some time to think about some of these concepts and I'm still reaching some issues in understanding/implementation.

If the head is an anchor point, does that mean I should feel as though my shoulders are turning around my spine while my head stays in place? Is this a feeling I'll have to resist to keep it there or should that come naturally when other aspects of the throw are correct?

I think I've reached a point where I understand what I'm doing wrong, I just don't know what exactly to adjust. What feeling I should be getting in different areas at different times.

Bracing, I think is troublesome for me for two reasons. I was a right handed hitter in baseball so everything feels really weird to recreate a lefty's swing. This also seems to be something that's mostly done by "feel".

The head is the anchor, but it can and does move through the bracing, just not ahead of the swing. My head is always following the hand/disc, a lot of people that struggle with this part try to turn their head/body to locate the target ahead of the swing of the hand/disc. Your body should be lined up so you don't need to actually see the target to release out to the target.

You are basically trying to learn to swing lefty and should have the same/similar feeling as your righty baseball swing. This is why so many people struggle with BH even with athletic background, it's not natural unless you are ambidextrous / switch hitter, and will take lots of practice to get it to feel more natural. Think about swinging one handed, and getting the ball/bat to release into center field, you should feel the need to close up your stance from a two handed swing to get any power of your swing into the field, otherwise you would feel your power releasing sideways.

Some questions on bracing:

Should the brace feel like I'm trying to balance all the weight transfer into my heel? Will I feel like I'm just balancing on one foot? I can do the can crush drill, but often I look like my weight is to far back and to my right.

Yes, balanced on the plant foot totally through the finish.

Does that mean I should aim to have the weight transfer more inside my plant leg thigh? When I practice a brace, no pivot or disc in hand, I feel pressure on my outside hip/lower butt but I don't feel that being transferred into a more forceful throw so I figure that must not be right.

Not entirely sure what you talking about in the second part, but inside plant leg thigh sounds correct.

Some other ?s:

I know that forward weight transfer shouldn't begin until after planting. Should I be transferring weight at the exact same time as turning my rear leg inwards? Turning the rear leg inwards, should this feel like I'm trying to fold my hips in half but my plant leg is resisting until the pivot happens?

It's really weird trying to talk about weight forward, and the timing between both legs(you can't really think about both sides of your body at the same time). I think about weight in terms of a scale under each foot and just maintaining balance, you shift 100% just walking, if you jump you can increase your weight and change your acceleration.

The timing can vary depending on your stride/speed. Generally the rear foot should be airborne(no pressure) before you are totally braced. If your rear foot is still on the ground and driving through the brace you are likely going to hurt your lower back. This is where the rear leg countering behind the front leg comes into play, it actually stops the rotation of the pelvis, but your weight continues forward into the brace.

I will say that since taking on this endeavor my accuracy has greatly increased since my days of strong arming every throw. Then, I hit my line maybe 3 or 4 times out of ten. Now it's more like 7 to 8 out of ten.

Thanks again SW and everyone else.

Efficiency and consistency should be your goal. More distance will come after that and you can then learn to get nasty.

 

[AtomicDom]

Appreciate the feedback man, you're really helping to keep me pushing forward.