How to get and control snap?

[BirdieMachine]

So like many I've had days where I've thrown well and was throwing effortless 375-400. Other days just meh. So wtf is going on? How do you get snap and control it on command?

 

[DiscJunkie]

One way to learn your throw is to videotape your self.
Tape the good days and bad days and compare.

My guess is that you'll find something different about your throw.

 

[BirdieMachine]

This is the point where the "tendon bounce" occurs. The instant before the disc rips out is where the maximum acceleration occurs, and therefore, the maximum momentum shift, and therefore the maximum reverse force on the stiffened fingers and wrist. If the fingers and wrist are held stiff enough in opposition to the force of the sharp momentum shift, the tendons will flex back and help to catapult the disc forward as it leaves the hand. This is not a small force. It's very large and is in large part what gives the 90+ mph baseball pitchers their velocity.
-Dave Dunipace

Do you actually want to hold your wrist stiff from going forward or pressure backwards during the hit?

 

[crashzero]

So like many I've had days where I've thrown well and was throwing effortless 375-400. Other days just meh. So wtf is going on? How do you get snap and control it on command?

Usually comes down to timing. When you're not getting any snap, try reducing your run-up and do a very short and quick x-step and the snap should come back. This happens to me a lot when I go to a course with large teepads or no teepads, my run-up gets out of control and I have to remember to keep it compact.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I personally think that a "stiff" wrist is a recipe for elbow issues. Staying loose through out the motion, with a firm thumb to index finger knuckle pinch is a much better goal to shoot for.

There's a local shop in Denver (Shot Shapers) that has a radar gun, and I stopped by to check it out. I was able to throw from a 1-step 59mph and from a very slow x-step 63mph - on their slick pergo floor.

As I tried to throw harder, the disc speed slowed down - and as I slowed and loosened the initial setup - disc speed sped up. More muscle = bad. Tight = bad. Loose = good. Slow and explosive = good.

I believe that once they get a good gripping floor in place, I can add another 5-10% of disc speed - but currently an x-step plant was giving way to a forward slip.

My buddy Ian was able to pipe a FH 66mph and current "high score" was Eagle MacMahon at 79mph.

 

[sidewinder22]

IDK that a stiff wrist is a recipe for elbow issues or not, but it is a recipe for more power transfer/load and spring. I'd think a loose wrist is more prone to hyper extension. Also note that Dave D is talking about stiffening at the hit, not being stiff into the power zone. Really everything stiffens at the hit, it's how you deliver force.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I guess my thinking is that most of the guys who are working to discover it - are going to find it easier without trying to change rigidity of the wrist in the timing. Once you can get a solid hit, definitely worth playing the the input variables.

My concern with stiffening things up, is that when I tried to keep the wrist actively stiff too early - I can feel my upper forearm tighten up, which was pulling tendons tight, which would cause me tennis elbow.

I've developed 2 completely different throws lately, one that's looser and more of a straight back-swing and one that's trying to mimic the mcBeth's wider back-swing, but it's much more compact and "tight" focused on an accurate release point.

 

[sidewinder22]

I guess my thinking is that most of the guys who are working to discover it - are going to find it easier without trying to change rigidity of the wrist in the timing. Once you can get a solid hit, definitely worth playing the the input variables.

My concern with stiffening things up, is that when I tried to keep the wrist actively stiff too early - I can feel my upper forearm tighten up, which was pulling tendons tight, which would cause me tennis elbow.

Stiffening the wrist lead to a break through for me some years ago. I also did what you did and kept the wrist/grip too stiff too early but got a little golfer's elbow. Once I learned to relax my grip/wrist a little bit until the hit the elbow issues all went away. I prefer to use taut or firm as the term before the hit as opposed to stiff or loose, it's in-between.

 

[JedV]

I personally think that a "stiff" wrist is a recipe for elbow issues. Staying loose through out the motion, with a firm thumb to index finger knuckle pinch is a much better goal to shoot for.

There's a local shop in Denver (Shot Shapers) that has a radar gun, and I stopped by to check it out. I was able to throw from a 1-step 59mph and from a very slow x-step 63mph - on their slick pergo floor.

As I tried to throw harder, the disc speed slowed down - and as I slowed and loosened the initial setup - disc speed sped up. More muscle = bad. Tight = bad. Loose = good. Slow and explosive = good

I believe that once they get a good gripping floor in place, I can add another 5-10% of disc speed - but currently an x-step plant was giving way to a forward slip.

My buddy Ian was able to pipe a FH 66mph and current "high score" was Eagle MacMahon at 79mph.

Excellent insight, as always HUB!

There is so much truth to the saying that smooth is far.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I don't think of it at all as "keeping" a stiff wrist. My wrist stiffens increasingly as I get closer to the hit. I think about applying as much forward force to the disc as I can, without my wrist opening too early (losing load). It's an accelerating stiffening of the wrist, that's really just an accelerating forward force of the wrist.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Isn't the wrist supposed to be "hammering" the disc forward? Isn't this the opposite of having a stiff wrist? I'm really trying to understand this but these ideas seem to conflict.

 

[sidewinder22]

Isn't the wrist supposed to be "hammering" the disc forward? Isn't this the opposite of having a stiff wrist? I'm really trying to understand this but these ideas seem to conflict.

There's a little variance between the hammer and rail techniques where the wrist doesn't need to move very much in the rail. Also you don't limp wrist when using a hammer, you need to be firm enough to control the weight at the backside of the swing and then firm enough to guide the head/weight to hit the nail. This was another break through I had using a real hammer and going through the throw in slow motion varying the wrist stiffness. How much wrist movement do you really need to hammer something?

 

[Jay Dub]

I remember when McBeth was answering questions on these forums someone asked him about snap and he only reply was something like...what is this snap you speak of...

That's when I knew I had been doing it wrong all these years. :doh:

 

[Dan Ensor]

With a completely loose wrist, after the disc got to the power pocket, it would just be resting on your forearm, and any disc pivot would be the disc moving your hand and wrist (momentum transferring out of the disc, into your body), not the other way around (momentum from body transfers to disc).

 

[slowplastic]

As I tried to throw harder, the disc speed slowed down - and as I slowed and loosened the initial setup - disc speed sped up. More muscle = bad. Tight = bad. Loose = good. Slow and explosive = good.

I think this is key for me too. Like the OP I occasionally have good days where I throw a couple great drives, then I'm just on for the rest of the day. I don't have to think about anything in my throw, it just flows and I have 400+ of power. But most days I'm stuck ~30' less than that and changing any number of variables doesn't get me there.

The biggest problem is myself probably, where if I'm not throwing as far, I try to overcompensate and throw harder or force the discs out there. That leads to being overtop of the discs (so causing some annies that I don't want) or else muscling it a bit too early and not holding on until the final point which obviously kills that extra distance too.

It's just strange at how when it works it's just so easy and I feel like I can remember it and had a breakthrough...but I can almost never just go and do that the next day. Then I always wonder if I'm lying to myself about how far I was throwing...but teepads to certain tree distances don't lie. It gets frustrating.

It's so confusing how there's so many variables and if anything is off, it kills that distance. And when it works, I think of zero of the variables.

 

[Questatement]

A guy I play with carries a pair of huaraches and, when his form is off, puts them on for a few holes before going back to regular dg shoes. He swears by it and I've seen the results.