augggg....I'll try that again.
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How To Make It In America (In A Sport That Gets No Love)
- Thread starter bradharris
- Start date
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
This is the same reason why people want Disc Golf to be mainstream. They don't want to be looked upon as frisbee throwing pot smokers hiding in the woods.
You seem pretty preoccupied by this issue. Perhap you are not aware of the multiple other more popular and higher paying sports in which this is prevelent. I don't really see this as the sticking point. I agree with JayDub in that the issue is far more complex.
sugarnot
Eagle Member
^ actually I have no problem calling a disc a frisbee if that is what gets it to be widely recognized and to that level, to me that whole argument is just semantics. But I do have issue with the pot smoking hiding in the woods label.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Personally I really don't care what people think, other people do. I'm just giving my view on it. All the serious competitive sports are on TV regularly and the top athletes make boatloads of money.
More players = more demand for TV viewing = Bigger sponsors = Bigger payouts and endorsements = Greater competition and elite skilled players.
If you can make a million dollars a year playing disc golf you can be dang sure more and more people would take up the game professionally and younger players dream of making it.
i always call it frisbee golf when speaking with people who have never heard of the sport, everyone knows what one is so it saves time and is less confusing.
eta: i draw the line at frolf.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Disc golf is never going to be heavily televised. Can we move beyond that as the holy grail of success?
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Within 5 years we will see it on ESPN or Foxsports.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Don't hold your breath. Aside from a fluff piece or quick blurb it is not going to happen.
I believe I read that 5 years ago.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
And 5 years before that and 5 years before that. :wall:
Loomis
Par Member
I know this won't be a popular thing to say but I feel I should share it. I realize that my comments on this board are generally met with some disdain and scorn and I am prepared for that backlash. In the long and short of it, it doesn't matter what we say here because it's just a forum and forums are rarely a place of action but rather reaction. So I am ready to accept the slings and arrows that will surely come from saying this.
First, I want to say that most of my opinion comes from my history working in sports broadcasting and entertainment. I have over twenty-five years put in at this point and I enjoy covering disc golf and I want to see it grow. In the past, I worked for the PGA, Major League Soccer, The NFL, Major League Baseball and the NCAA (football). I then worked at NBC (KSHB 41 in Kansas City) and ESPN in the 1990's when they still made their bread and butter covering "obscure sports" like speed boat racing, 9-ball tournaments and professional water skiing. I then transitioned to film and television work before I went to live entertainment production. So I have some history with sports and entertainment. I don't know if this makes my opinion valid or not, but I wanted to make sure those reading this would know where my comments are born from.
Having said that, I want to give my two cents about where I think Disc Golf is as a sport on the broader sports landscape.
Disc Golf isn't sexy. And though it is widely loved and adored by those who play it. But as much I love this sport, it's not a sexy sport. It's just not. And that's not to say it couldn't be, but the way it's done now... It's not going anywhere.
And it's not about the pot smoking image or getting children interested. Lots of sports have pot smokers and they still attract sponsors. And getting children interested is not something adults can control. That's an act of desperation. Football didn't become interesting because toddlers had a ball to toss around. Disc Golf just isn't sexy enough for anyone outside of the sport to take notice of it.
It's all about presentation.
It's presentation is all wrong. Tournaments are still run in a crude fashion without much overall structure. There can be up to forty "official" events a week, and there can be three or four BIG events all competing with each other for the big name talent. If any talent shows up at all. This makes the tour look sorta thin and lazy. If there was an official TOUR it might make the sport easier to follow for people outside of it.
The sport also lacks a dynamic and interesting personality who can transcend the sport and who can take it to a bigger audience. We have personalities that the World of Disc Golf recognizes but that's where it ends. There needs to be someone with Barsby's flair, Feldberg's mouth, Nikko's look and let's say Mcbeth's Talent who can interact with the media in an interesting and engaging way. So far the interviews on tape are thin. As a former producer, if I had to piece together a story about the Memorial and I had to get some soundbites from the players, I would be killing myself to find something that didn't sound like a soundbite that was used at the Gentleman's Club or last year's Worlds, or a C tier in North Dakota. It may sound interesting to Disc Golfers but it's not the slightest bit interesting to the outside world.
There needs to be a way to transition disc golf from the obscure and isolated world that it is and have it become worthy of the attention that will make sponsors want to support it. Otherwise, disc golf will continue to languish for another forty years.
If Disc Golf isn't a SPECTACLE, then it isn't worth a dime of a sponsor's money.
First, I want to say that most of my opinion comes from my history working in sports broadcasting and entertainment. I have over twenty-five years put in at this point and I enjoy covering disc golf and I want to see it grow. In the past, I worked for the PGA, Major League Soccer, The NFL, Major League Baseball and the NCAA (football). I then worked at NBC (KSHB 41 in Kansas City) and ESPN in the 1990's when they still made their bread and butter covering "obscure sports" like speed boat racing, 9-ball tournaments and professional water skiing. I then transitioned to film and television work before I went to live entertainment production. So I have some history with sports and entertainment. I don't know if this makes my opinion valid or not, but I wanted to make sure those reading this would know where my comments are born from.
Having said that, I want to give my two cents about where I think Disc Golf is as a sport on the broader sports landscape.
Disc Golf isn't sexy. And though it is widely loved and adored by those who play it. But as much I love this sport, it's not a sexy sport. It's just not. And that's not to say it couldn't be, but the way it's done now... It's not going anywhere.
And it's not about the pot smoking image or getting children interested. Lots of sports have pot smokers and they still attract sponsors. And getting children interested is not something adults can control. That's an act of desperation. Football didn't become interesting because toddlers had a ball to toss around. Disc Golf just isn't sexy enough for anyone outside of the sport to take notice of it.
It's all about presentation.
It's presentation is all wrong. Tournaments are still run in a crude fashion without much overall structure. There can be up to forty "official" events a week, and there can be three or four BIG events all competing with each other for the big name talent. If any talent shows up at all. This makes the tour look sorta thin and lazy. If there was an official TOUR it might make the sport easier to follow for people outside of it.
The sport also lacks a dynamic and interesting personality who can transcend the sport and who can take it to a bigger audience. We have personalities that the World of Disc Golf recognizes but that's where it ends. There needs to be someone with Barsby's flair, Feldberg's mouth, Nikko's look and let's say Mcbeth's Talent who can interact with the media in an interesting and engaging way. So far the interviews on tape are thin. As a former producer, if I had to piece together a story about the Memorial and I had to get some soundbites from the players, I would be killing myself to find something that didn't sound like a soundbite that was used at the Gentleman's Club or last year's Worlds, or a C tier in North Dakota. It may sound interesting to Disc Golfers but it's not the slightest bit interesting to the outside world.
There needs to be a way to transition disc golf from the obscure and isolated world that it is and have it become worthy of the attention that will make sponsors want to support it. Otherwise, disc golf will continue to languish for another forty years.
If Disc Golf isn't a SPECTACLE, then it isn't worth a dime of a sponsor's money.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Loomis I do disagree a bit. We have NT events which do exactly attract all the big names with a larger prize pool and season ending bonus structure. Those events are also covered much more by the current videographers. More tourneys are going to want to attain NT status to get the coverage of top players.
People do like to watch sports that they play or have played so the growth of players only means more eyeballs wanting to watch. It's rarer to want to watch a sport that you don't play or haven't played before. You watch because the skill level and talent is impressive to watch knowing first hand knowledge. So you do want to focus on juniors and player growth.
I played Basketball, not on a team but I had a hoop at home and played casually in Gym pickup games mostly against former High School or College players. Played a bit in Gym class too. I also started watching Basketball (the T-Wolves) as an 11 year old. I still watch every game because I am invested in it and have first hand knowledge of what type of skill it takes to play (I got killed against the College guys). lol
I also played football casually growing up with neighborhood kids and played for the high school team. Again having first hand knowledge playing the game it makes me interested to watch the best in the world play.
Same with disc golf, I grew up playing and recently the last two years taken it seriously. I watch every video I can get my eyeballs on. More players will equal more eyeballs.
People do like to watch sports that they play or have played so the growth of players only means more eyeballs wanting to watch. It's rarer to want to watch a sport that you don't play or haven't played before. You watch because the skill level and talent is impressive to watch knowing first hand knowledge. So you do want to focus on juniors and player growth.
I played Basketball, not on a team but I had a hoop at home and played casually in Gym pickup games mostly against former High School or College players. Played a bit in Gym class too. I also started watching Basketball (the T-Wolves) as an 11 year old. I still watch every game because I am invested in it and have first hand knowledge of what type of skill it takes to play (I got killed against the College guys). lol
I also played football casually growing up with neighborhood kids and played for the high school team. Again having first hand knowledge playing the game it makes me interested to watch the best in the world play.
Same with disc golf, I grew up playing and recently the last two years taken it seriously. I watch every video I can get my eyeballs on. More players will equal more eyeballs.
Loomis
Par Member
I'm sorry I don't have the tech skills to paste quotes like the others users on here do but I would like to respond to Birdie Machine's comments.
The NT Tour is only eight events. And if it is only going to be eight events then they need to be well-attended, well-covered spectacles that are handled by people outside of the sport who know how to present a sport as entertainment. When we handle this stuff in-house, it comes off looking like a home video.
I remember one year (I think it was 2009 or 10) that the USDGC was well-covered. It was slick looking and had rotating talking heads and multiple cameras with graphics, but other than that one time it's been real hit and miss with coverage. I know I've paid for two or three "lifetime memberships" to DiscGolf Planet and yet they still keep asking me to pay for my patronage. That's a telling sign that things are not going well.
And for the record. I have watched every single video by Central Coast Disc Golf, Disc Golf Monthly, Disc Golf Guy, Clash and the coverage of dozens of other online entities. I try to watch one a night. I have my favorites and there are some that are unwatchable (anything with just music and no commentary). There's a lot of great talent calling events and getting coverage, which is why I'm surprised that all these talents haven't found a way to coalesce into one entity. And get a solid product out there. I think the PDGA is to blame on this one. It falls squarely on their shoulders to present the sport to the general public. I hope the new media guy they hired can do that. I like what he's done so far.
The official tour of top PROs needs to be a MAJOR event (or NT) every week, or at least every other week. At a minimum, every three weeks. It needs to be consistent and easy for people to follow. There needs to be more build up to the events and the audience shouldn't have to scramble to find information. This is 2014, waiting until the next day for updates is embarrassing for a sport that wants to be taken seriously.
And if a player is going to skip an event there needs to be "coverage" of why that is happening. If Tiger misses an event, that's big. If Jimmy Johnson skips an event, that's big. If Kobe doesn't play, that's big. If a product isn't going to be part of a promotion, it's big. THIS IS SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!! It's part of the spectacle of a sport to know who's in, who's not, why, who's hot, who's struggling, and a narrative that can be followed. But most importantly, it must be SHINY and SEXY and INTERESTING. Think of any major sport - any sport - it's not just the competition that matters, it's everything that surrounds it too. Spectacle, spectacle, spectacle.
[SIDE NOTE] I don't mean to bag on Doss, he's just the first example I have with Texas coming up.
The NT Tour is only eight events. And if it is only going to be eight events then they need to be well-attended, well-covered spectacles that are handled by people outside of the sport who know how to present a sport as entertainment. When we handle this stuff in-house, it comes off looking like a home video.
I remember one year (I think it was 2009 or 10) that the USDGC was well-covered. It was slick looking and had rotating talking heads and multiple cameras with graphics, but other than that one time it's been real hit and miss with coverage. I know I've paid for two or three "lifetime memberships" to DiscGolf Planet and yet they still keep asking me to pay for my patronage. That's a telling sign that things are not going well.
And for the record. I have watched every single video by Central Coast Disc Golf, Disc Golf Monthly, Disc Golf Guy, Clash and the coverage of dozens of other online entities. I try to watch one a night. I have my favorites and there are some that are unwatchable (anything with just music and no commentary). There's a lot of great talent calling events and getting coverage, which is why I'm surprised that all these talents haven't found a way to coalesce into one entity. And get a solid product out there. I think the PDGA is to blame on this one. It falls squarely on their shoulders to present the sport to the general public. I hope the new media guy they hired can do that. I like what he's done so far.
The official tour of top PROs needs to be a MAJOR event (or NT) every week, or at least every other week. At a minimum, every three weeks. It needs to be consistent and easy for people to follow. There needs to be more build up to the events and the audience shouldn't have to scramble to find information. This is 2014, waiting until the next day for updates is embarrassing for a sport that wants to be taken seriously.
And if a player is going to skip an event there needs to be "coverage" of why that is happening. If Tiger misses an event, that's big. If Jimmy Johnson skips an event, that's big. If Kobe doesn't play, that's big. If a product isn't going to be part of a promotion, it's big. THIS IS SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!! It's part of the spectacle of a sport to know who's in, who's not, why, who's hot, who's struggling, and a narrative that can be followed. But most importantly, it must be SHINY and SEXY and INTERESTING. Think of any major sport - any sport - it's not just the competition that matters, it's everything that surrounds it too. Spectacle, spectacle, spectacle.
[SIDE NOTE] I don't mean to bag on Doss, he's just the first example I have with Texas coming up.
The only entity within disc golf that has the type of capital it would take to get a real tour going is Innova. If they did decide to put money into something like that it would literally be donating to the sport as they have no incentive to do so.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Loomis I think you and I are on the same page mostly. I don't think the PDGA is doing a good enough job at all. I do foresee more events gaining NT status though. Better players equals more eyeballs and more money from sponsors. The difference between NT and A tier is usually huge as far as top player turnout, but not much different with the Prize pool. I'm fine with something like every other week or two weeks on and one off either having a NT or Major event. But yeah we should be seeing larger tourneys. The sport itself has been growing faster then the events themselves. Now like you said we have 3 or 4 A tier events a week that just spread out the players and we don't see the top players compete against each other.
HiFi- How about all the exposure Innova could get? They do own the market though so I agree a bit that it might not translate right away into a massive growth in disc sales. They could do all the filming then have ads on TV along with the coverage, not even charge for the coverage. Just get paid back with free advertising. Sponsors for the tourney would go up as well with all the extra eyeballs. Say the tourney is 4 rounds. They could produce one show showing the first 3 1/2 rounds top card in a couple hours, then go Live for the final 9 holes. 4 hour program covering the entire event. Just spit tin ideas how they could grow the sport and thus sell many more discs/baskets and bags. BTW why doesn't Innova have a backpack bag?
HiFi- How about all the exposure Innova could get? They do own the market though so I agree a bit that it might not translate right away into a massive growth in disc sales. They could do all the filming then have ads on TV along with the coverage, not even charge for the coverage. Just get paid back with free advertising. Sponsors for the tourney would go up as well with all the extra eyeballs. Say the tourney is 4 rounds. They could produce one show showing the first 3 1/2 rounds top card in a couple hours, then go Live for the final 9 holes. 4 hour program covering the entire event. Just spit tin ideas how they could grow the sport and thus sell many more discs/baskets and bags. BTW why doesn't Innova have a backpack bag?
NTs aren't created, paid for, or run by the PDGA. They're done by people in local communities. Which means we have about as many as possible right now, and can't set dates for them.
Nor does Innova have the resources to make it happen. They put a lot of time and money into a single event, the USDGC, and had to scale it back a few years ago.
Nor does Innova have the resources to make it happen. They put a lot of time and money into a single event, the USDGC, and had to scale it back a few years ago.
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