I crave competition, but I’m not very good. Suggestions?

[JC17393]

No offense..but if you've been playing the game 15 years and you're still not regularly playing under par, winning some events, etc, then quite frankly...you've learned the game wrong. Seriously...forget what anyone says here and hire a local pro for some lessons and get your game up to spec. If you're not willing to do that.....then...forget about the competitive side and just go throw some plastic and enjoy the health benefits.

Bull.

I know players that have been at it for 25+ years that can't get their rating appreciably above 800 or play "under par" (subjective criteria to be sure) to save their life. Doesn't mean they've done anything wrong or that lessons will make much difference. Their ceiling is simply not as high as some others.

They still play 20+ tourneys a year and enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[slowplastic]

Bull.

I know players that have been at it for 25+ years that can't get their rating appreciably above 800 or play "under par" (subjective criteria to be sure) to save their life. Doesn't mean they've done anything wrong or that lessons will make much difference. Their ceiling is simply not as high as some others.

They still play 20+ tourneys a year and enjoy the hell out of it.

I dunno...it's not hard to throw 250', which means that someone should then be able to throw 200' on any line and with some accuracy. 250+200=450' on two shots. So then even take it down to getting easily within the circle on any sub 350' hole. It's really not hard to play par golf on city courses if your mindset is to play par golf rather than throw as hard as you can and then continue to try the difficult shots to "save it" after a bad tree kick.

I get that not everyone wants to put in the time to learn to throw 350+, but it's still really easy to get 3's on 350' holes.

 

[JC17393]

I dunno...it's not hard to throw 250', which means that someone should then be able to throw 200' on any line and with some accuracy. 250+200=450' on two shots. So then even take it down to getting easily within the circle on any sub 350' hole. It's really not hard to play par golf on city courses if your mindset is to play par golf rather than throw as hard as you can and then continue to try the difficult shots to "save it" after a bad tree kick.

I get that not everyone wants to put in the time to learn to throw 350+, but it's still really easy to get 3's on 350' holes.

Not saying it is hard to shoot par, but par is subjective and course dependent and not necessarily the best generic barometer of how good a player is. And my main objection is the notion that playing X number of years means that a player should be able to do certain things like win tournaments or throw low scores. There is a point where age and injury or even just body type can diminish one's ability to reach and/or maintain certain skill milestones. Doesn't mean the player is doing anything incorrectly or that they should quit competing as a result.

200-250 feet with accuracy is a higher bar for some than you make it out to be. And an inability to be able to do that is not necessarily an indication of a lack of trying.

 

[slowplastic]

200-250 feet with accuracy is a higher bar for some than you make it out to be. And an inability to be able to do that is not necessarily an indication of a lack of trying.

This is the part that is hard to understand or compare. I only know what it's been like for me. Not too hard after focus/practice, and I definitely feel like I've messed up if I miss those shots.

 

[JC17393]

This is the part that is hard to understand or compare. I only know what it's been like for me. Not too hard after focus/practice, and I definitely feel like I've messed up if I miss those shots.

Change 200-250 to 400-450 or 500-550. If you can do it, of course it feels like something anyone should be able to do with a little practice. That's not really the case for everyone, though.

 

[DiscJunkie]

1. Read the SW22 book.
2. Playing with a group of DG'ers is something you cannot duplicate.
You can't play solo every round and then show up at a tourney and expect to score well.
3. Decide what you want. Do you want to play well and enjoy scoring well compared to others? If so, you have to out-work them. Here's the perfect book: Disc Golf is Not a Game of Magic. There is no magic formula. If you want to best them, out-work them.
4. If you're having fun just playing solo, no work required. Just don't expect to score better than others who may be working hard at their game.

Not trying to flame anyone.
I am kinda where you are, and my approach has been (is) to work at my game. Is it the right choice? For me--positively yes.
My hope is that you will find fun and enjoy this game--whichever path you choose.

 

[DiscFifty]

They still play 20+ tourneys a year and enjoy the hell out of it.

I'm not saying he can't have fun and enjoy the hell out of the sport....my point was if he is concerned "truly" about winning or losing...then yes I stand by my point that after 15 years and he can't shoot under par (yes..this is subjective I get that..) and losing all the time, then yes he has been doing it wrong for a very...long....time. It could be a simple fix, it could be he's doing something very wrong causing accuracy problems, maybe he simply can't putt, hell I don't know...I think my advice to get a pro right away and nail down the issues is a rock solid suggestion for anyone in this situation. I think that is more sound advice than everyone telling him this or that, or suggesting countless vids, etc, etc. You have to at least understand what the core problem is and an in person lesson from a pro would be the quickest and most reliable place to start imop.

There is a point where age and injury or even just body type can diminish one's ability to reach and/or maintain certain skill milestones. Doesn't mean the player is doing anything incorrectly or that they should quit competing as a result.

C'mon...he didn't mention any of that and if he did I wouldn't have responded like I did. I started the game seriously at 50 years old, 500lbs, bad knees. 5 years later I can stand still 280-300ft all day long. It's not that difficult if you get the right training and put in the time. I took lessons early on from a pro and he dialed in some obvious things I was doing wrong. The biggest thing to comprehend was weight shift, that by itself is a hell of a thing to understand but when you see someone doing it in person, in slow motion, it can click alot sooner.

I meant no-disrespect to the op, but I thought it was important to be honest and perhaps steer him in the right direction to get some lessons asap if he is truly concerned. We all know and have seen peeps playing the game for a long time that still have oat, torques overstable drivers, etc, etc, and it always is a surprise to find out how long they have been playing. There is no doubt they never took lessons, never knew or cared to correct their form, etc, etc. In my division...I play with guys that have been playing for 20-30 years that like you said...are barely above 800, can't drive 250-300ft to save their life. But when you see them drive...it's obvious why. Still amazes me every time to see a player like that. Hell..just telling them to replace that Nuke OS with a lighter Nuke SS would probably add 50-80ft for most of them.

 

[JC17393]

Before we try to break down and analyze the guy's technique and form and practice habits sight-unseen, perhaps simply looking at what he actually said and responding to that is the best way to go.

Yes, he says he wants to compete and maybe win. He also says that he's playing Intermediate and finishing last a lot. Seems to me that the simplest fix, without changing anything or making assumptions about him or the way he plays the game, is for him to get out of Intermediate and into a division he can be more competitive in (Rec, Novice, Masters if he's of age).

If after that, he wants to improve himself and get better and move up, then by all means advise away about adjusting techniques and practicing more and all that. But from his description, he has skills but he can't put them together in competition. Seems more mental than physical and could be helped by removing some of the pressure to shoot perfect in Intermediate, and moving down to Rec where he can perhaps get his competitive sea legs and put together some solid competitive rounds to figure out what that feels like.

 

[Quinntastic]

Ok, so clearing a few things up.

I've been playin for 15 years, but due to a major health scare I am pretty much relearning as of 2 years ago. I'm in pretty good health now. 2 years ago I got acute necrotizing pancraetitis, 3 day coma, 4 months in ICU, fall risk, lost 75lbs, had to relearn to walk and blah blah blah. Been through this somewhere else on here but figured I'd mention that again.

Currently driving around 300-350' avg with decent control. This is with a philo destroyer, if I use my old beat 165g DX banshee i can get it to around 400' but not very accurately so don't use that shot in rounds.

I've gone long streaks close to par. +1-3 for about a month solid, but lately that's fallen off. I've gone from driving 200' at the start of 2017 to my current 350' now, so I'm constantly finding new trouble, so I haven't really been a rut of the same round over and over syndrome, but pretty much always finding a new way to mess up.

I try to hit a field once a week to work on form and such. I have a basket in my living room and try to throw at least 50 putts from 25' a day. I've improved drastically but have a hard time canning them in rounds still.

Also I'm bipolar, so I mean it's not really like a huge deal but getting control of my mental game has proven difficult at times whether it's from on course or off course distractions.

Goals are basically not be last hahaha. I'm having fun mostly, but I want to at least be middle ground. 20/30 would be cool hahaha.


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[Quinntastic]

Also the courses I'm playing are pretty wooded and technical mostly. Very few holes over 400', but lots under 300 on crazy lines through MN brush. Wouldn't say they are difficult, but they aren't the avg pitch n putt city parks. Lakewood Hills, Kaposia and Acorn Park are my home courses if anyone knows them for reference.


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[Broken Shoulder]

Also the courses I'm playing are pretty wooded and technical mostly. Very few holes over 400', but lots under 300 on crazy lines through MN brush. Wouldn't say they are difficult, but they aren't the avg pitch n putt city parks. Lakewood Hills, Kaposia and Acorn Park are my home courses if anyone knows them for reference.


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A few years ago I shot 83 (+2) on the 27 hole long layout at Kaposia for the first round at MN Ams. All Par 3s. That was good for solo second in Advanced and rated 978. (Don't ask about round 2.) Point being, maybe let's not use Kaposia as our benchmark.

I wish i had some advice to offer. Sidewinder's book recommendation is a good one.
Maybe get to where your head isn't the thing getting in your way. Dial back, play for par, and change your mental approach to putting.

Also, realize that after a health thing like that, you need to rebuild all of that muscle memory again. It takes time. Forgive yourself your mistakes and try to learn from each one.

 

[slowplastic]

That's good distance, and woods golf makes it way harder to be consistent. Easy to get an unfortunate kick and getting a 4 is then hard. It sounds like you're putting in a lot of work and practice, so don't overdo the expectations on yourself. It's likely mostly a head thing, and everyone gets bad kicks. I have heard several times in pro round commentary that after a player gets a fortunate break, like a tree kick that still puts them in the circle, they have to use that as an opportunity and cash in the birdie rather than thinking they didn't deserve the good break and not focusing on the putt as much. Breaks go both ways, the mental side of it is tricky and you have to realize nearly everyone else is going to have a good and bad kick in the round if you're playing somewhere very wooded. It's how you deal with it that affects a few more strokes.

 

[Quinntastic]

Also, realize that after a health thing like that, you need to rebuild all of that muscle memory again. It takes time. Forgive yourself your mistakes and try to learn from each one.

This has been pretty hard for me. I try not to make excuses for myself, but I suppose at a certain point an excuse can be legitimate. My form and everything is now completely different then it was 5 years ago, so makes sense it would take time to get it settled down and the kinks worked out.

I've also heard so many times "you get worse before you get better" but I'm not really sure how much worse is something I should be concerned about.




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[Quinntastic]

I totally get what your saying with the trees. I feel like if I make it a couple holes clean I stay pretty clean the whole round. Or at least when I get a bad kick it's easier to handle. But when I start knocking wood early, I start focusing on that and it compounds. Trying to work out a way to clear my head. Easier said than done for me hahaha


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[ThrowaEnvy]

....But when I start knocking wood early, I start focusing on that and it compounds. Trying to work out a way to clear my head. Easier said than done for me hahaha

I'd play Rec... see where you fit in. You are only playing against yourself anyway... don't worry about those other guys doing the same thing.

The mental side of the game can be tough to keep reigned in when stuff goes wrong... sometimes less pressure in a lower division helps. I just got through a tournament, I played masters not open since I'm not as good as I have been and it helped. I had a rough start, the guy I was playing with was cool, LHBH like me, was a local and kicking my ass.. But I kept lumping it out chanting the usual things:
"Theres nothing wrong with par"
"One shot at a time"
"Throw for the gap not the basket"
"Oh well lots of holes left"
"It's not a bad shot just a chance for a sweet second shot"

I also like it when someone else keeps the scorecard then I don't think about if I'm ahead or behind and recognize when a safe par is the right choice. I played a reasonable round thought I could have been better... won masters and tied the open score for tourney best. Probably wouldn't have happened if I was playing open...

I was also missing putts at the start, I pack two identical weight putters and if stuff is missing I switch, I know it is purely psychological but it helps me.

Playing in the woods? You gotta have a Comet... if stuff isn't clicking on my short game I will use it in place of a putter for slower settling or a driver and take less distance over accuracy. It's a great training disc... for more info consult any thread here haha. A decent selection of 3 midranges will help depending on putter overlap.

Also a go to 150g driver of some sort is money for restricted footing/ movement or when you aren't throwing as hard as usual. Also a reliable fairway driver or three.. and a wind driver (fairway or distance) and a utility distance driver that's fairly straight. A well balanced bag is crucial, but making it too heavy will wear you down.

Tourneys are won by guys who are better supplied.. Towels, sammiches, water, I pack a chalk / birdie bag, mini bottle of sunscreen, a bucket hat I can fold and stow... and always slug a litre of water pretourney.

Keep competing, play with people who are better than you for tips and motivation, play with some noobs or kids for nine holes with only a putter and they will think you are awesome. Especially play doubles... if there's a regular dubs league get in on it. Talk your partner up, talk yourself up, hell talk the competition up... when that negative energy gets going it snowballs and sucks everyone in.