Is Super Cali fair?

[Innova63]

My own opinion on the matter is that traditional Cali rules of one extra throw per hole is generally not enough to make up for the lack of a partner throwing a second shot from every lie. But... giving the same player the ability to throw, see the result, make corrections, and re-throw, then choosing the best one is generally more advantageous than having a partner.

I like the "mulligan" modification that if you want to pay twice, you get the option to throw twice from each lie... but if you throw the second shot you must play from the second shot.

It is my understanding that in Cali rules you "must" play from the second shot. Not really best shot.
So many years ago here in WI we started playing "mid-west rules" where you could play from throwers choice making it a more true "best shot"

 

[knettles]

It was really interesting my only time playing as super cali was on our club's worst disc day. Since it's worst disc, you need an extra throw every lie to give the same amount of chances to screw up. However, I was playing decent and won by quite a margin. Every shot I threw was relaxed around 75% power and just focused on consistency. It's always fun to park a hole, then park it again, and then get to take the worst shot which is a 6 foot putt.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Actually, it makes perfect sense to me when you're playing for stakes of some sort.

One team consists of two players: two fees, two attempts per lie.
The other team is essentially a team of one. If you want to get two attempts per lie (like the other teams), then pay like the other team. If you want to pay single, shut up and be happy you get a mulligan per hole.

 

[optidiscic]

never heard it called super cali but paying 10 for 2 shots is fine imo as long as the cali is in a 3some but in a 5some no way

we play cali as 1 extra on par 3, 2 extra on par 4 and 3 extra on par 5...it actually is tough deciding when to use that extra shot sometimes and is mentally tougher than having a partner

we typically only allow the cali player to be from A pool

 

[ejvogie]

Locally it depends on the course. On the easier courses we allow 1 extra throw PER HOLE. On the harder course, we allow one extra throw PER LIE.

 

[rocthecourse]

I say give it a try BUT someone should keep a record of the results. Stuff like number of players, the cali players rating if they have one, wins and cashes, etc. Do this anytime there is a cali, regular or super.

 

[hipster]

Regardless of skill level, if paying twice, the SuperCali player should be able to throw twice from the tee, approach and putt as needed.

 

[grodney]

Is Super Cali fair? Logistics expert -- he just told us (even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious):

If you allow Super Cali, my suggestion is to not let the Cali player make their second throw/putt right away and have at least one other person in the group make their throw before the Cali player makes their second attempt. That minimizes any grooving effect, especially on putts.

 

[Mike C]

It's fair.

Normal cali rules are 100% unfair, and I've always felt this way since I started playing leagues.

In normal doubles you can get two attempts from each lie. Cali rules do not allow this, which gives that player a huge disadvantage.

If the cali player happens to have a well rounded game, that is no reason to think they deserve to be punished for having a solid skillset.

If anything playing super cali means you are more likely to get fatigued, both mentally and physically, than playing regular doubles.

I've never seen good justification for these rules.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I've gotten burned on this in tournament play (non-sanctioned) back in the 90s when the doubles TD played Super Cali and beat my team. He was also the highest rated player in the Masters division. It didn't seem right. At the time, we didn't think about having him putt then one of us putt before he putted again.

Now that we have ratings, even when not everyone playing dubs might have a rating, you can usually tell the player(s) in the middle of that pool. They should be drawing for or assigned the Cali position. If the mid-player wants to play Super Cali with double payment instead of regular Cali, then it should be fine. I wouldn't want random draw from the whole pool for Cali or Super Cali since it could either be less fair if a higher rated player gets the Cali and unfair if it's a low rated player in the pool that draws Cali.

 

[wkelly42]

CAli should have one extra shot per hole. Super Cali is, I think, actually a disadvantage. You're always going to try to improve your shot, so you will most always rethrow. You are playing TWICE as much as your competitors; you will get tired faster. By hole 18, the Super Cali person will be MUCH more tired than the team he's playing against, and will start dropping shots like crazy.

I tend to play Super Cali when I'm playing a practice round solo, and I'm not sure I'd EVER pay to do it in a doubles round.

 

[Jax11]

Chuck, I think your idea for breaking up a Super Cali's putts is brilliant. Whenever I play standard Cali and take two putts from 25ft the second often feels way too easy because I know exactly what adjustment to make. I imagine having that every hole would be tough to beat. I think your solution is a great way to level the playing field without giving a good player too much of an advantage.

I would not like playing Cali where if I elect to throw for a second time I must play it. Half the fun of playing Super Cali or Standard Cali is setting yourself up to take some Ace runs, especially when the pot is juicy.

On the topic of the OP; I believe Super Cali is really strong in the hands of a good player.

 

[wildwing]

If you allow Super Cali, my suggestion is to not let the Cali player make their second throw/putt right away and have at least one other person in the group make their throw before the Cali player makes their second attempt. That minimizes any grooving effect, especially on putts.

This sounds fair to me. Just make the Cali player throw or putt first everytime, regardless of who has the tee or farthest from basket.

 

[Rockwell]

You could also do a ratings based version. Maybe people rated >930 play normal cali, and people <930 play super cali. (or whatever the average rating of your group is)

I've seen poor players get discouraged when they are the cali player, and good players get excited. This would help even that out.

 

[Shamis]

Depends on how good the player is really. If it's a long course making 2 throws on every hole tends to cause fatigue by the end of the round and that can lead to disaster. But if the Cali player happens to be the best player out there, then yes, he's got an advantage.

For casual doubles rounds I don't see the big deal. If it was an actual tournament then I don't think Cali should be allowed at all.

 

[DiscJunkie]

At our doubles, if the person wants to pay double for the extra throw, per lie, then that is their option.
However, we do not allow second putts inside the putting circle. Only one putt inside the circle.

This shaves a little of the perceived advantage.

In our doubles, cali rarely wins.
It is not perceived as an advantage, from what I've seen, except for the best players - whose natural skills enable them to take advantage. That won't change.

 

[mashnut]

At our doubles, if the person wants to pay double for the extra throw, per lie, then that is their option.
However, we do not allow second putts inside the putting circle. Only one putt inside the circle.

This shaves a little of the perceived advantage.

In our doubles, cali rarely wins.
It is not perceived as an advantage, from what I've seen, except for the best players - whose natural skills enable them to take advantage. That won't change.

I've never quite understood the desire to make it really difficult for the Cali to win. It seems to me like you'd want them to be competitive with everyone else, especially when it's not their choice to play as the single player that week.

 

[kpc2004]

I haven't read everyone's comments so this might have been mentioned already, but I think your two choices in the poll are not enough. I would say Yes it is fair, simply because every single person had a chance at pulling the odd-man-out card to have the opportunity to become super-cali. That being said, I do think that if an open player like Sam gets it, then he will have an advantage over a rec player who would get it or an advantage over most pairings in the tournament. Will he have an advantage? Yes. Is it fair? Given the situation, yes.

 

[bombmk]

You could also do a ratings based version. Maybe people rated >930 play normal cali, and people <930 play super cali. (or whatever the average rating of your group is)

I've seen poor players get discouraged when they are the cali player, and good players get excited. This would help even that out.

That is the inherent problem with the Cali idea in general.

A low skill player will, compared to the average of the field, be way worse off on normal cali. Even Super Cali is only limiting his disadvantage.

Where as a high skilled player will gain a huge advantage.

Optimally it would be decided based on rating/hcp.

There really is no good answer to the question. It depends on the player.

 

[in4d]

The way we do it is, you get one extra shot on every lie... BUT you do not get 2 putts if you are INSIDE the circle. The group decides if you are inside the circle or not.