Long timers: What have you learned?

[HyzerUniBomber]

I just re-read the hammer to the right (here: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112863) thread from a few years back and it's interesting to think back on how many times I thought I'd discovered something that ultimately fell to the wayside and I never really addressed it... hammering the disc to the right, hips this, wide rail that, grip that...

I think quite a lot of what I was doing back in those days was fumbling around in the dark, seeing what worked at all, fixing one thing, breaking two and then trying to make it stick.

If I come back to the table now and put my strongest hand down I'd argue that the BIG ticket items are:

1. Forehand and backhand: learning to brace. Settling on the front side: crushing the can, swinging a hammer, 1-leg drills. If you can't throw from 1 leg, it's almost assured that you will be a mess with an x-step.

And that's it: A list of ONE item. It's so damn important it pretty much lives a lonely life of solitude. Yes, other things will be required, good angles, timing etc - but if you just put your mental brain juice into that thing, so much other stuff works out.

Let's say that you've got solid bracing worked out, but you're stuck at 350-420'... AND YOU REALLY HAVE #1 WORKED OUT... you might just need to point that off shoulder target-ward at the top of your backswing. I forget this sometimes and get lackluster power.

It's not reaching back more, it's coiling your core more - specifically by taking your non-throwing shoulder and "pointing" it targetward. Easy to forget when you're trying to keep an eye on the target and still want power.

The other thing that saps power with regards to good coil, is that we forget that loose long toss lesson: loose muscles do everything faster. Muscle up, you lose speed.

As soon as I incorporated good bracing and staying loose into my forehand, I went from using FH as a get out of jail card to using FH for anything right breaking.

Lastly and most importantly: have fun. I'd be lying if I said that any aspect of being obsessed with form is fun. I lost that part of the game for a while and I didn't like that. If it stops being fun, take some time and enjoy other things. Hell, your body may even thank you for it. I've found a great balance of regular life, running, and disc.... well, maybe not enough running.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[DiscFifty]

"If you can't throw from 1 leg, it's almost assured that you will be a mess with an x-step."

Could you point me to the best video, article, etc, that shows the 1 leg drill? Thx.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

"If you can't throw from 1 leg, it's almost assured that you will be a mess with an x-step."

Could you point me to the best video, article, etc, that shows the 1 leg drill? Thx.

Dunno if this is the best, but it's short.

 

[RandyC]

I started playing bit over 3 years ago and I started working on my form from day one. I agree that bracing and loose muscles are the key. One leg drill was the best drill for me aswell. I can hit 550 when the stars align correctly but due to being obsessed by technique like you and many others.. There are days or weeks when I forget the task in hand and try to perform some cool elbow move which usually leads to 20ft hyzer throws.

 

[Casey 1988]

I know what you mean I was too into Disc golf for a while but I found the putter model for me lucky and most of the bag. of disc I use. Then in 2014 the year I fixed my putting stance to the one I use now, a Basket ball putt with no spin whas what I had before. A cousin mentioned I would do well to have one longer driver then a Valkyrie in my bag on that is either neutral to minimal understable or a lighter weight overstable Disc. I did get a Champion Destroyer at 170 grams a white with enough red I-dye on it though it was not calld an I-die as it was one color over white. Then I found as soon as I got home a Neon Green/yellow Champion Destroyer at 176 grams. Then 2016 near the end i got a Star Shark to complement my Pro Shark both at the 175 max weight they make the disc in those plastics. Then 2017 i had to in August replace a few discs like a old Valkyrie 171 grams worn out blue one to get a Glow Champion 170 model and those feel like the old Champion plastic. Also in August I had to get a Double set of Jaw breaker Magnets to replace an old Hard set well just one disc the disc from after 2006 a Magnet that got warped hitting a tree on a putt at Shipwreck Cove in Eire State park in Jun, it was warped to the point I could not play with it. The Jawbreakers are 173-174 grams and are on labbled putter and the other Approach for longer putting/hazard putting. they both have Drawn in red Sharpie the Ring from the stamp of a Pro D Magnet, need it for thumb placement when Putting. I still have the hard 173-174 gram stiff pre 2006 Magnet in the bag mostly for winder shots in summer when a stiffer putter is needed or for a putter disc if the Jawbreakers are too floppy in summer being it is too hot out.

Sorry for the long post but I had to stop as i was getting too into disc golf as of 2008.

As of August 2017 I got a Vertex Angle Fishing Backpack and modified that simply because the bag for $65 and a $10 extra soft stroller bottle holder and $1 worth of pins permanently crimped closed on the bag to have the thing work. The old bag I still have as that was a Discraft Tournament bag from 2007 I won at an ace race that I latter in 2016 added a Set of Outcast clip on fishing Backpack straps that do sort of work when Playing Disc Golf. I also made the original strap more comfortable when using it that way with Athletic tape as well as added a second bottle holder to the bag. The new bag works fine though it is 6.5 pounds empty. I needed a new bag the old one was too small for all my extras I had, they barely fit into my old bag.

 

[Casey 1988]

I have learned that now you need to have a Forehand or be able to throw with other hand then no matter if Dominate hand is right or left. I can't but then I never really needed to do this as I have a different shot with backhand for the disc. I also learned that Approach/driving Putters only hybrid putter/midrange is a thing most brands have in there lineup. Some people can even putt with these discs too. Also a brand i loved a disc from Is no longer in buisness, Lighting but then Got To Go Gotta Throw owns these discs plus the molds and will make them in the same/similar type of plastics once the massive amount of discs that they have for each mold runs out.

 

[Casey 1988]

I have learned that now you need to have a Forehand or be able to throw with other hand then no matter if Dominate hand is right or left. I can't but then I never really needed to do this as I have a different shot with backhand for the disc. I also learned that Approach/driving Putters only hybrid putter/midrange is a thing most brands have in there lineup. Some people can even putt with these discs too. Also a brand i loved a disc from Is no longer in buisness, Lighting but then Got To Go Gotta Throw owns these discs plus the molds and will make them in the same/similar type of plastics once the massive amount of discs that they have for each mold runs out.

Well not so much a Hybrid putter is new but that they are now more a mix of a fast putter and a fast mid as well, most brands have one or more of these. Hybrid Approach/Driving putters that for most are hard to do regular putting with are a newer concept but discs that are lower profile putter/approach discs had been around but they were discs that for most they could still putt with.

 

[mullethead326]

This thread had potential.

Be smooth. Learn to work angles of release. The best throwers hit lines consistently, not just throw far. Maintain the same plane from reachback through release.

 

[billyjacko]

1. Forehand and backhand: learning to brace. Settling on the front side: crushing the can, swinging a hammer, 1-leg drills. If you can't throw from 1 leg, it's almost assured that you will be a mess with an x-step.

It's not reaching back more, it's coiling your core more

These were the exact two items I was going to say. One leg drill, and thinking of twisting the spine upright, balanced and leveraged. I wish I would have started doing one leg drills 10 months ago when it first got brought up in my thread. It really cleans up a lot of things you THINK you know about throwing a fisbee. I'm still a long ways off, but thinking of the spine twisting, balanced and upright makes me automatically get leveraged in the backside. I've also started thinking of the rear shoulder fallowing through toward the target and I haven't been missing lines anymore.

As for a more psychological thing, I've learned to stop thinking I know anything. I see a lot of people (and this was me in the early days) trying to discredit the information coming to them in form check threads. A lot of people come in with the mentality that if they can get the disc out to 350', they only need to tweak one little thing and they'll become Lizotte. I just had to accept I sucked to start making true changes on the field. I would be able to start understanding it in walk through and drills, but when it came to having a disc in my hand, everything would fall apart.

I'm still a long way off, but most of my progress has come in the last two months. A big part of that is doing one leg drills into a "net" (actually a mattress with a blanket over it). It's really nice to not think of where the disc is going and just look at the mechanics (seriously, post video of yourself doing one leg drill if your not getting it). Working on it that way is less stressful, and allows muscle memory to sink in. It transitions much better to the field that way.

 

[DavidSauls]

As I age and decline, it's harder to cover for bad form with athleticism.

And, at the same time, harder to work out the bad form.

 

[RandyC]

As I age and decline, it's harder to cover for bad form with athleticism.

And, at the same time, harder to work out the bad form.

My dad is close to 70, not the most athletic guy out there but still gets a standstill distance to 330. (That would be his max range, usually around 270-280ft.) Basically everything is pretty wonky what he does but he learned to brace his shots with one leg drill.

 

[DG_player]

As a noodle arm, i have to say the only thing that has ever actually helped me gain power is working on bracing.

I'm sure a lot of the other technique advice has some value to a much more advanced player. However from my perspective, it seems like bracing is the foundation and without building from a solid foundation focusing on other aspects of the throw will have negligible value.

 

[stevefolfer]

Im 54 and have been playing for a while. I feel like my form has gotten better but distance has stayed about the same. On a football field, throwing from goal line to goal line(300ft) is a really good throw. I seem to be maintaining my distance and becoming more consistent. Bad throws are less bad. I also feel like better form is helping to prevent injuries. Ultimately though its all about putting. I can throw the disc all over the place but if I putt good I play good.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah all the older stuff from the DGR threads about hammering, late pull/outward pull, half/full-hit just caused me to think about the disc path and that's it. The thing is, if your body is in the wrong position and you try to copy the "ideal disc path" then you're going about it the wrong way, with no momentum and no tension. Everything has to be set up the right way and you'll get into the next position.

I agree with the one leg stuff, and I need to do more of it. But what I think is super important to understand is:
-if something looks off/wrong to you about your throw, even a bit...then it's probably definitely very wrong
-if something seems a bit wrong, then go a step or two or three before that. If your elbow is in the wrong position at the right pec, then look at reachback height, or shoulder plane when turning back, or even spine angle when X-stepping
-if you are not in balance in the follow through, then your balance leading up to it, probably during the whole throw, is incorrect

Also you need to:
1. Identify the issue you are having. For example, you are tipping forward as you are throwing, or as we say, collapsing past the plant.
2. Identify why this is happening. In this example, it could be caused by trying to shift in front, rather than setting up from behind.
3. Find drills to change your patterns. For example crush the can or Hershyzer drills to load into the rear leg and land balanced on a closed front side.
4. Incorporate into a throw. Feel how to use this drill feeling in a throw. Remember that drills are for concepts, but the goal is to throw smoothly in this mechanically better way.
5. Do it until it's muscle memory. Then identify the next worst problem. You're at step 1 again. But, it gets faster/easier each time. Some things will add distance, others will add consistency. Both are good. One is fun, the other actually helps your scores.

 

[Discette]

Long timers: what have you learned?

Don't read any posts by Casey1988.

 

[billyjacko]

-if something seems a bit wrong, then go a step or two or three before that.

This is something you said in my thread that really stuck with me, and I've been repeating it to anyone that will listen. When I would identified a problem area, I always wanted to try to fix that problem. Reality is I'm doing something wrong in the set up to get out of position. I couldn't have all the bad mechanics before it and suddenly whip into the right position because my mind wanted me to.

From my experience it typically comes from balance issues. It just doesn't feel powerful to glide through your x-step on your toes, and not turn your pelvis until your almost ready to pull. Instinct tells us to lunge into the x-step which sets us up to rock back and forth like the out of control washer machine Sean Clements talks about all the time.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

After playing for many years at various levels of 'results' success, I have learned that the exclusively 'technical', 'how to' approach to improvement is in error, despite the fact that technical skill is the foundation for consistent 'good' play.

I now tend to view every thing as a part of a larger process, focus on my 'process' goals and allow results to come or run away on their own. A parallel tip to this idea, would be to allow oneself to throw when it's time to throw - not thinking about the throw while throwing. It's paradoxical, but I have found that to gain control or to 'improve', I must consciously release the desire to control my results.

The game of golf is fairly unique because the game's structure forces players into that position as a matter of course, because the cooperation or competition with others is 'indirect'.

I have also learned a lot about sportsmanship, hospitality, human nature in general, my own character and the character of those I've played with frequently, which are perhaps the more important lessons than getting an extra 50' on my drives or being a consistent putter inside the circle.

 

[ALT-J]

For years my problem was the weight shift. I did not realize until last summer that in order to shift the weight forward and brace the weight has to be on the rear leg first, not centered. I think its weird becuse i have had a pretty good putting form producing power from the lower body for 2 years and not figuring out that the very same fundamental would work on driving. That discovery clicked everything and I learned which muscles to use to really rip the disc.

Its pretty much impossible to use the big upper body muscles for throwing if you are not properly braced. Funny how just one discovery made everything feel so natural and I evolved from 330 distance to 450 relatively quick. For all you struggling friends out there, keep on practicing and trying new things. I was hopeless after years of trial and error and after all it was just one minor adjustment that made everything make sense.

 

[ALT-J]

As for a more psychological thing, I've learned to stop thinking I know anything. I see a lot of people (and this was me in the early days) trying to discredit the information coming to them in form check threads. A lot of people come in with the mentality that if they can get the disc out to 350', they only need to tweak one little thing and they'll become Lizotte. I just had to accept I sucked to start making true changes on the field. I would be able to start understanding it in walk through and drills, but when it came to having a disc in my hand, everything would fall apart.

I absolutely agree on the first sentence. My development started right after I realized I dont really know anything and certainly am not a good thrower. I wish more people would do the same. Most people just cant take any feedback or advice, they just seem offended if someone is offering them advice.