Moving snow?

[cheesethin]

Can a player remove snow from their lie/stance area? It fits my idea of a casual obstacle, ie loose. But QA-CAS-2 implies that it isn't.

QA-CAS-2: Does the term "body of water" in the casual relief rule include bodies of ice and snow?
No. "Casual water" as listed in the rules is water as it's commonly understood, in its liquid form. The rules do not grant casual relief from snow, ice, or even steam should you encounter it. Note that the Director can announce that ice or snow are casual obstacles, in which case they may be moved if they are on or behind your lie.

The bolded sentence is also a bit confusing because it talks about moving the obstacle, whereas the Q&A starts off talking about taking relief from obstacles - not the same thing.

 

[araytx]

Can a player remove snow from their lie/stance area? It fits my idea of a casual obstacle, ie loose. But QA-CAS-2 implies that it isn't.



The bolded sentence is also a bit confusing because it talks about moving the obstacle, whereas the Q&A starts off talking about taking relief from obstacles - not the same thing.

The bolded only comes into play IF the TD makes a specific declaration. Otherwise the previous portions of the rule are clear.

 

[cheesethin]

The bolded only comes into play IF the TD makes a specific declaration. Otherwise the previous portions of the rule are clear.

Yeah, I explained myself poorly, my bad.

803.01 Moving Obstacles
B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
A player may move casual obstacles that are on or behind the lie partially or completely on the lie or in the stance area, regardless of whether they extend in front of or behind the lie. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.

The definition of a casual obstacle (bold) in 803.01 would, to my mind, already include snow as 'loose debris'. It isn't attached to anything, it is just lying around, much like loose dirt but made from water. Therefore my interpretation is that from 803.01 alone, a player is entitled to move snow.

But QA-CAS-2 suggests that snow must be explicitly declared as a casual obstacle, ie it is not already so. This seems to contradict (my read of) 803.01.

 

[Steve West]

Yeah, I explained myself poorly, my bad.



The definition of a casual obstacle (bold) in 803.01 would, to my mind, already include snow as 'loose debris'. It isn't attached to anything, it is just lying around, much like loose dirt but made from water. Therefore my interpretation is that from 803.01 alone, a player is entitled to move snow.

But QA-CAS-2 suggests that snow must be explicitly declared as a casual obstacle, ie it is not already so. This seems to contradict (my read of) 803.01.

You can't dig a hole in the dirt, either. It is usually a playing surface. A TD might designate certain piles of dirt as casual to allow players to move them, but it's not automatic.

Sometimes snow is a playing surface. Sometimes it is a built obstacle. Hence, the need to ask the TD.

 

[araytx]

Yeah, I explained myself poorly, my bad.



The definition of a casual obstacle (bold) in 803.01 would, to my mind, already include snow as 'loose debris'. It isn't attached to anything, it is just lying around, much like loose dirt but made from water. Therefore my interpretation is that from 803.01 alone, a player is entitled to move snow.

But QA-CAS-2 suggests that snow must be explicitly declared as a casual obstacle, ie it is not already so. This seems to contradict (my read of) 803.01.

I do not see such a contradiction. QA-CAS-2 is clear that "casual water" is in its normal liquid form. Nothing in 803.01 would (in my mind) make any solid form of the chemical compound with molecular formula H2O become "loose debris". Definitions come before the rule.

You can't dig a hole in the dirt, either. It is usually a playing surface. A TD might designate certain piles of dirt as casual to allow players to move them, but it's not automatic.

Sometimes snow is a playing surface. Sometimes it is a built obstacle. Hence, the need to ask the TD.

Exactly.