Need help developing better consistency...

[Darth Disc'er]

Just a quick update today guys.

Got out of the house early this morning wanted to beat the sun heat today. Did those drills the elephant walk one was worried that I was anticipating the step/throw/ follow through. Probably needs some more work, but had a chance to experiment with the other drills I found yesterday as well.

Checked the footage and didn't see much difference however I left the field ran some errands and tried to think about body position and how to get the shoulder down more.

Went back out and felt like I finally found a bit more leverage on the elbow getting it through and out and really feeling that whip at the end of my fingers on release. It felt kind of weird reminded me of watching Eric Oakley how he had that low to high reach back but swinging the disc down over my toes really got my spine over my rear hip and deeper shoulder rotation even though it didn't really feel like I was rotated over my hips together as I thought was how it went.



Then pulling through tried to get the lead shoulder down as much as I thought needed (I still think it looks a bit high in the video) and pulling through.

However after a half hour of spinning on my heel last night in front of the mirror I can see that needs extra attention and my stance here at least is dead up and down peg leg with no bend until I start the backswing. Also the follow through on that leg still being up and down is atrocious but I can work on those two items unless I need more attention to something else swing wise.

Thanks for the help and if I'm way off on this please let me know

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks and sounds like some progress. If you watch my one leg drill you will notice my rear heel spins down to the ground in the backswing, so it allows my pelvis to shift behind the front leg without the weight really leaving the front foot, there will be some weight on the rear foot/but it's mostly from the G-forces of the backswing and just providing leverage to get back upright on the front leg.

You have a nice hill behind you, go throw from there and try to pretend cut some tall grass with your disc swinging through.

 

[slowplastic]

You're way more centered with your shoulders rotating around your spine, spine on the leg. That is much better.

Got to let the lower body counterweight a bit more, like SW is describing with how his rear leg rotates during his backswing because of his setup and tilt.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Thanks guys great advice.

I have this sneaking suspicion that the rear leg toe is still trying to drive a little bit of hip action still but the rotation/swing pendulum effect felt way more smoother and fluid than it had before.

The rear leg foot on the ground I did notice in the video but figured it was some higher level stuff to not worry about after looking back I realize now that the back leg allows for more fluid rear hip to allow the front hip to get more backwards turned and ready to use the Power move when your going to get the ground for leverage to start the shift. Since its not weighted during the drill it just rotates from toe to heel then the forward momentum should bring it up as the rear leg drives forward into the front leg and everts back behind?

I've tried using the slope out there for learning better weight shift to the front (diagonally) sort of like a weighted Hershhyzer drill but I was doing it all wrong tipping or not realizing that the plane of motion would be down on a flat release and getting frustrated thinking everything was burning into the ground which is entirely possible if you are tipping over forwards.

Also not sure how to best spin on the heel learn this I believe I read somewhere putting toes up in the shoe would not allow you to spin on the toe but that sounds...risky maybe to injury?

Sadly with the rain tonight my practice field there maybe a bit swamped so relocate to sounder ground however I will be back out there tomorrow, different location albeit.

Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you got it or close. The shift is linear between the feet, so if your stance is diagonal, your weightshift pressure(CoP) should be diagonal as well which is linear between the feet and then you can rotate after you shift or re-center. You have to shift the majority of weight/shift your center before you can rotate on either leg in backswing or forward swing.

Lots of good info/drills in these to help explain and show how to move...
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3447339&postcount=85

If you are balanced on the front leg start to finish, you should not really have to worry about your foot pivot, it will happen as the swing momentum goes over the foot and pulls you/CoG into the finish like braced Olympic Hammer Thrower.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Hey guys quick update today.

Wasn't able to get out yesterday due to rain, complications with the field I wanted to use.

This morning I feel slightly more encouraged about some things, others not so much.




My shoes are getting beat up on the heel for one thing, should be expected I suppose with cheap ones on a budget. The inside heel is detaching from the surrounding material so I'm going to assume that the rotation is more centered over that coming out of the swing into the follow through.

I tried to stay hard centered on ball of foot and heel, imagining octopus suction cups on my mid foot still figuring out the rear foot motion, toe pivot to heel and then toe point to eversion but I'll get there.

My rear leg looks higher so possibly it is everting better not sure how to gauge this. It feels more pulled out away from me like it is countering my forward momentum. But I'm not getting that "pinched" up feeling in my thighs maybe because its weightless still doing the one leg drill or I need better shift forward. I am working on the wall butt swivel move drill today and gave a few drills a good work over yesterday as well despite the difficulties. I do find it hard to get into the Move position on one foot really feel that right hip drop and start the shift forward.

My swing bounce though is alarming me. Possibly not enough shoulder lower to under chin or some high back swing to low swing looks like the disc is passing closer to my hip. Possibly setting up to high or I sometimes try to watch (inadvertently) the disc gets my head up before the spine brings it up via spiral forward.

It didn't feel as leveraged today as last time I posted, but if technique improves should the effort be easier I suppose more efficient bio mechanics since your body says, Hey we've done this a few times before I know how to do what he wants from me.

Thanks for the advice you guys provide and the time out of your day for helping us improve, I really appreciate it.

 

[slowplastic]

I think you need a little lateral movement, watch in SW's one leg video how his body does move slightly away from and toward the target. As well this will help with getting you a better transition from the top of the backswing forward, you kind of pause momentarily at the top of the backswing and then turn forward all at once with the arm not lagging that slight bit.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Hey guys,

An update today, got some work in. Been working those door frame/ butt swivel drills all weekend mostly during commercial breaks if tv is on, randomly throughout the day when I find a few minutes.

Basically want to know if I am doing them correctly. I have my butt I'd say inch and a half below the bottom of my spine thrust into the edge of the island flush with the edge. Slightly staggered feet, back foot is almost under the counter as there is a lip. Reach back/ backswing, wipe the left cheek going outside then on the swing portion pushing forward sliding against the back of the counter. I feel like if I keep my arm loose I end up in this position which looks correct for swinging through to me, I'd like an opinion on this. Really trying to feel that lateral hip move forward/ diagonal since I can't move them back at all.

I feel pressure the whole time through the motion where my fanny never leaves the counter edge/face just more pressure on the right cheek I'd say flush less on the rear. My foot is becoming dragged into center (not sure if you can see this) so setup looks correct with the shift of the hips I think.



Throws today were iffy, still feel like I get a lot of leverage sometimes other times not. Definitely off my toe for the rotation portion I think the shoulder needs more dip in it and I am working the weightless back foot sort of pivot to heel to toe to see the counter butt/leg to swing move. May need more extension of the arm to really get the leg out in space behind me.

Do you guys feel tempo is extremely important, what I mean by this is doing the grass swing cut drill I am thinking swing - cut - swing - cut - swing - cut in my head almost like a tempo of a metronome or grandfather clock. The swing would be the top of the arc moving away from center and the cut would be coming down through vertical with the grass as if the disc was a circular blade and I was going to cut through an inch off the ground ( on a slope).

So on my regular swing I think, swing - pop or some other word to help me feel like I should be in the power pocket or for the moment the arm is fully extended at the top of the arc of the swing. Wondering if this is a bad habit to rely on or would help not be early/ late with the hips, arm, etc. Just help keep it smooth and flowing. But don't want to rely on this if it screws up something later on down the road.

Thanks for your advice again appreciate your patience in my slowness to understand concepts sometimes.

 

[Mocheez]

It looks like you are rotating the right hip way too much in the back swing and spinning around on it in the forward swing. Try keeping it more neutral and use the left hip to initiate the backswing and forward swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah your hips are just spinning, there's no shift happening before you rotate in either direction. You are locking out your rear knee in the backswing which is a reverse pivot of sorts, you can't balance when the knee locks out. You mirror that knee lockout on the front leg in the forward swing.

 

[slowplastic]

Work in some standstill shots, so that you can feel the backswing over the rear leg and then moving laterally to the front leg during this backswing and then planting. Don't be concerned if your heels or feet lift off the ground at different points of the motions, do what feels natural. Just allow yourself to flow with a forward pump, backswing, forward swing.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Took your advice SP and just worked mainly on standstill shots today.

Still worried I'm not loose enough or getting enough torque to get the disc through flat and level. Still battling that high to low (almost waist level) bounce.

I thought I was doing a better job getting the hips separated from the shoulders after watching the 2nd video Rotating your chest properly and worked this but it doesn't look very different to me in the vid I took. Timestamp 9:35 on the video tried recreating it with a yardstick/golf club to see the difference between the 90 degree rotation back from center (shoulders) and the 45 degree rotation (on the hips) getting them to match up in the follow through. I will of course work this some more.

Felt weird throwing off two feet today instead of one, I definitely think my balance is better on the front leg, probably from standing on it all over the place last week strengthening muscles getting tendons into shape getting the work in. However I feel inclined to setup more weight forward than back not sure if this is a good thing or not or just to focus on equally distributed weight before starting any motions.

I was trying very hard to just let the arm loose, flow from top to bottom dangling the arm under the shoulder under the chin before making any motions. Seemed to help get more flow to the motion.

I also tried the Rope drill from the compound pivot video timestamp 4:39 using a 12 foot string of 550 cord and my basket for putting. I think the pivot in the waist feels much smoother doing this as I pull right arm in left knee gets driven into the thigh like I believe the shift happening. The reverse feels like establishing a governor spot for the head to stop over the left foot as it feels like you max out range of motion just pulling the rope directly back. I think that drill and the one I mentioned above correlate somehow into the throw something I need to be doing better but on a more subconscious level.

On a positive note, I've thrown more discs and putters in a week and a half than I ever have before and it shows. The field I've been using is long enough to have me end up with these 150 - 175 ft upshots to get to the end and using the putters I feel WAY more confident in using one for these types of shots. Where usually I'd right aim a OS mid I am now throwing putters pretty flat and straight with a lot more accuracy then I would have felt possible with less power.

So thanks for the advice/updates/critiques keep them coming if you would. I really am enjoying trying to make this whole thing sink up somehow.

 

[slowplastic]

I would start more in the one leg finish/address position instead of between the legs as you are doing and have said you are doing. That way you still feel the goal of the hit/finish balance, and then you HAVE to rock/move laterally to the rear leg to initiate the backswing with your body weight. I'm still not seeing a lateral movement/shift and that's why I suggested trying moving to a standstill shot. The end goal is standstill and X-step, and you are getting on to the lead leg well, so I think you should keep trying to feel how to move your weight between the legs a bit more. In the X-step it will feel less deliberate over the left leg than it will in a standstill, but it's still important to feel how to be leveraged inside of the rear leg for the backswing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, that static flat footed starting position. :gross:

Watch how I'm setting up dynamically and constantly moving back and forth and swinging and flowing before and into the backswing like I'm swinging a ball(disc) on a string(arm) where my body/center is moving like the wrist getting ready to fling the ball on string.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Quick update today,

Went out yesterday didn't really feel like I accomplished much. I think I get hung up on throwing far sometimes or focusing in on one particular thing at a time and forget to do other things. Working on that.

As for today, just went out and wanted to feel loose and flow. Yesterday I was also very upright, tall, and non dynamic in my movements like before. Looked like a statue trying to throw a disc.
Sorry if these are a touch longer just wanted to show how I'm swinging trying to stay loose back and forth feel the hip drag the arm back from a pump. Footwork probably looks horrible but focus today was to be loose.




Today I think still need to be more over the hip lower even more bent in the knee for posture, something I'll work on. I really wanted to feel the hips lead the backswing today main goal. My question is one of timing though, should the move begin right after the hips extend back or the disc passes center of mass? I feel like I wait too long in the backswing to get forward and there doesn't appear to feel like any shift forward. Working on that too disc still feels low on the swing through and the elbow doesn't appear to lead much so there is definitely a leverage component missing if it is not collapsing sooner into the core.

Overall I stay optimistic think swinging the hammer last night helped a bunch I'll keep doing what you guys say to try to improve this. Thanks again.

 

[sidewinder22]

When you start your forward swing your right shoulder is spinning to the right of the target behind your front foot as you stand up out of your posture. You want your right shoulder to swing forward on a pendulum toward the left slightly coming thru over your front foot. Almost like you want use your shoulder to battering ram down a door. You wouldn't spin your shoulders to battering ram or stand up out of posture.

On your setup swings you can see how the disc is swinging around you back and forth instead of swinging the disc on a straight line back and forth on a pendulum. You are turning your shoulders too much in a circle instead of swinging the front shoulder back and forth more on a line or wider arc. Only a follow thru motion that would be after the release should take the disc to the right.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Update again today guys,

Did the battering ram drill with a crutch just tried swinging it at first feeling it move around my body, then setup to where I can try to hit a point in space on the wall with it. Was successful in not punching a whole in the dry wall. I say I went a good hour in two half hour sessions with this yesterday.

Did this again this morning a few times pre swing. Really wanted to feel that motion of driving through something, feels very powerful although with the swing mechanics in my shoulder motion may not be helping much just yet.




I think the standing up into the shot has plagued my line shaping for a long time now trying to flip a disc up to flat or throw flat ends up off line or instead of a hyzer a straight shot 25 degrees off my line to the right.
Its hard for me to get the motion I almost say I am anticipating the pivot at the end or just not generating enough torque around with the swing to get it to naturally occur.

I will be out again working shoulder height and staying more leaned over my toes, get that shoulder out more over my toes tomorrow really was just focused on feeling as much of the weight shift as I could today.

I have a pool to make use of as well, any kind of drills to do in the water to help with since the water is resistance if I'm say swing deep almost disc level creating eddys or whirlpools would form in the pocket if it all syncs up correctly?

Also I have a punching dummy so if I setup in the pocket with my elbow flush with his sternum could I reach back and try to get back to that position would help me with the getting the elbow forward / weight shift since I won't be likely to injure myself although it is a limited activity, just playing around with what I have. I can post a video or just go with what works as well worried that would lead to muscling.

Appreciate the advice and videos and despite people in the house with me thinking I'm crazy swinging crutches and hammers and stuff not giving up till I get this down pat.
Thanks again for your time and input.

 

[slowplastic]

Its hard for me to get the motion I almost say I am anticipating the pivot at the end or just not generating enough torque around with the swing to get it to naturally occur.

I know what you mean with this, I used to feel that too. If I pause your first throw from behind view, as the disc is coming forward at 0:22 your head is too far to the right/behind the heel. You aren't over the foot, that's why it feels like the foot and leg just want to release on the heel very easily. For me it feels like I'm getting over the entire foot/instep. Don't think about heel pivot or anything, get over the whole foot, it may feel like you are doing it with your chest or something different. Feel like you'll almost go through the shot over your toes or the whole shoe eventually as you follow through. This may be a bit extreme but you're not prone to pushing in front of the whole foot, and you've got to feel how to get farther to the left of the teepad/foot. The more effort/momentum, the foot will still release easily on its own.

 

[Darth Disc'er]

Quick update this week.

Was able to get out half of last week and try to get some work in. Mostly watching what I am doing since I feel you guys have given my eyes stuff to focus in on.

Mostly took the rest of the week off after Wednesday since I felt like my frustrations in not being able to correct something so simple in my mind at least thinking I'm doing something checking tape and saying, well try it again.



Still working on that rear leg aversion, kick out counter swing.
I feel like swinging the golf club maybe gripping it half way down the shaft and slicing with it out like I'm reverse cutting sugar cane is helping get that rear foot kicked out behind me.

Been doing some more drills this past weekend and trying to get lower. Every vid I've seen of myself is peg leg, maybe slightly bent but not till the back swing does the knee really go down. Trying to just get lower perhaps is the way to go here I feel that the more I get off my front foot in the backswing at least for now the more I tend to lean back into it early and end up centered more over my hip and less over my foot out front.

Also saw some coverage and saw just how bent over eagle looked in his run up got my brain turning again.

Considering if I should be more stride out weightless in my backswing standstill and less toe point or just keep the thing down with less weight, say like 20% front and 80% back?

Lots of things to think about, I do appreciate the advice.

 

[slowplastic]

You're pushing your body into rotation from the rear foot still...if you pause the video right as the disc is being released you can see your rear toes are still pressured into the ground with a bent shoe. Your left hip is getting pushed to the left and forward, around the right hip.

Rather than near the top of the backswing, while you are turned away from the target, landing with the spine over the right leg with your weight. Your spine will then be the rotation axis rather than your right hip, and your butt will get cleared away from the target from the plant leg extension.

Basically move/fall laterally toward the target and plant leg while you're turned back in the backswing, rather than thinking forward rotation.