Old player returning, need plastic advice

[ProPilot04]

Oh, I misread that too. You answered the question I asked, but I thought you were 82 years old. haha. Since you're 38 that changes everything! My advice won't apply very much, so you can disregard lots of what I've written.
Forget the Mamba and probably the Tern. Forget throwing light and understable discs.

Why forget lightweights?

 

[Rastnav]

Not TMI, I love talking about disc selection and building bags. Kinda hijacked the thread but hopefully the OP is getting something out of all the conversations.

I'm probably going to get notorious for thread-jacking if I post here enough. Too many interesting things to talk about. But, I think this conversation is actually probably really good for any new player to read, so it's in the right place and with the right spirit.

So there's a lot of talk out there around "mold minimization." I'm going to try to sell you and anyone else who is reading this on the idea.

I definitely agree with the idea of getting to a fairly limited set of molds that I am very familiar with. Everything you are saying about field work makes complete sense. I look at where I am now as a process, not a destination. That said, picking the molds that you want doesn't seem to me to be a scientific process. You can't just look at some flight numbers, measure the size of your handspan, wingspan, waist, tallywacker, whatever and then know what disc will work for you. Ball golf at least has club fitters and launch monitors, however sketch that may be.

Absent buying a set of starter discs and then just saying "these must be good enough, they are in a starter pack and I am starting", there isn't any way to get to a set of molds that work for me without some trial and error. As a new player, without any friends who play the game that is especially difficult. I actually asked where I should buy discs (or maybe saw it in a thread somewhere, or I searched for it) in NC and I was pointed at the various disc web sites. I didn't think that Play It Again was actually all that useful on that front, but maybe that is misinformation.

But, regardless, I found it very valuable to buy 10 (actually 12 including two different starter packs) different putter molds. I could have just gone "a Luna or Fierce is good enough for the best players currently in the game, one of them must be good enough for me", but it turns out that the Challenger was the most comfortable of them. It also turns out I don't really like it in anything other than base plastic, and not as a throwing putter, but I wouldn't know that without having gone through the process of trying

As a 50 year old who is lucky enough to work in tech, money isn't a huge issue, even though I am at the tail end of having two kids in college. Plus, there is a certain amount of joy in getting various cool stamps.

Like I said, eventually I'll sell a bunch of these discs and get back some of what I have invested. Having played a lot of ball golf, it's definitely cheaper than greens fees, range tokens, golf balls, new or used clubs, club fitting, etc. I can play 10 or even 20 rounds of disc golf in a week for nothing other than equipment I've bought. That's some serious value. Last summer I was lucky to get out for 2 or 3 rounds of ball golf in a week. The only annoying things is needing to find somewhere decent to do field work (especially with all the local fields closed due to Covid).

So what I'm doing now with all of these different molds is just exploring the possibilities.

Plus, other than that one putter, I pretty much haven't liked what I have thrown in base plastic nearly as much as the more premium plastics. Maybe I am "doing it wrong", but I don't know really how to determine these things other than to try stuff.

Regarding your bag, I'd encourage you to decide between the compass and the leopard since they seem to overlap based on the flight numbers, then definitely add in that explorer. Learn to hit every type of shot with your Atom, one of the Compass or Leopard, and the Explorer, and ditch everything else for now. Guarantee your game will improve.

I think you mean I should decide between the Explorer and the Leopard. Compass is a mid-range at speed 5. Explorer is a fairway driver at speed 7. Leopard is theoretically in between them at speed 6, but ... I'm not sure how. Much lower profile and dead flat compared to the Explorer (which is just a bit domey), although the rim isn't quite as wide.

But that Explorer is too overstable for me to replace the Leo with. Even though the Leopard in GStar plastic is much beefier than I expected, it's straight for most of it's flight, with a prominent fade at the end and is just starting to beat in to a little understable for me. Maybe I should be looking for beat in Explorers, but right now that is functioning more like an OS mid for me. The Leo is probably the disc I can huck furthest right now, out of everything.

The Compass is just a straight flyer. Not giving that up. Love that disc!

 

[azplaya25]

I'm probably going to get notorious for thread-jacking if I post here enough. Too many interesting things to talk about. But, I think this conversation is actually probably really good for any new player to read, so it's in the right place and with the right spirit.



I definitely agree with the idea of getting to a fairly limited set of molds that I am very familiar with. Everything you are saying about field work makes complete sense. I look at where I am now as a process, not a destination. That said, picking the molds that you want doesn't seem to me to be a scientific process. You can't just look at some flight numbers, measure the size of your handspan, wingspan, waist, tallywacker, whatever and then know what disc will work for you. Ball golf at least has club fitters and launch monitors, however sketch that may be.

Absent buying a set of starter discs and then just saying "these must be good enough, they are in a starter pack and I am starting", there isn't any way to get to a set of molds that work for me without some trial and error. As a new player, without any friends who play the game that is especially difficult. I actually asked where I should buy discs (or maybe saw it in a thread somewhere, or I searched for it) in NC and I was pointed at the various disc web sites. I didn't think that Play It Again was actually all that useful on that front, but maybe that is misinformation.

But, regardless, I found it very valuable to buy 10 (actually 12 including two different starter packs) different putter molds. I could have just gone "a Luna or Fierce is good enough for the best players currently in the game, one of them must be good enough for me", but it turns out that the Challenger was the most comfortable of them. It also turns out I don't really like it in anything other than base plastic, and not as a throwing putter, but I wouldn't know that without having gone through the process of trying

As a 50 year old who is lucky enough to work in tech, money isn't a huge issue, even though I am at the tail end of having two kids in college. Plus, there is a certain amount of joy in getting various cool stamps.

Like I said, eventually I'll sell a bunch of these discs and get back some of what I have invested. Having played a lot of ball golf, it's definitely cheaper than greens fees, range tokens, golf balls, new or used clubs, club fitting, etc. I can play 10 or even 20 rounds of disc golf in a week for nothing other than equipment I've bought. That's some serious value. Last summer I was lucky to get out for 2 or 3 rounds of ball golf in a week. The only annoying things is needing to find somewhere decent to do field work (especially with all the local fields closed due to Covid).

So what I'm doing now with all of these different molds is just exploring the possibilities.

Plus, other than that one putter, I pretty much haven't liked what I have thrown in base plastic nearly as much as the more premium plastics. Maybe I am "doing it wrong", but I don't know really how to determine these things other than to try stuff.



I think you mean I should decide between the Explorer and the Leopard. Compass is a mid-range at speed 5. Explorer is a fairway driver at speed 7. Leopard is theoretically in between them at speed 6, but ... I'm not sure how. Much lower profile and dead flat compared to the Explorer (which is just a bit domey), although the rim isn't quite as wide.

But that Explorer is too overstable for me to replace the Leo with. Even though the Leopard in GStar plastic is much beefier than I expected, it's straight for most of it's flight, with a prominent fade at the end and is just starting to beat in to a little understable for me. Maybe I should be looking for beat in Explorers, but right now that is functioning more like an OS mid for me. The Leo is probably the disc I can huck furthest right now, out of everything.

The Compass is just a straight flyer. Not giving that up. Love that disc!

I love play it again, but I'm in Austin with quite a few courses around, so maybe I'm blessed with a better selection. The thing I like is the used bin is full of discs that may be too beefy for me when new, but are now beat in, so I can throw them at my current power level. Also, you can feel the discs (sanitize your hands after lol) and just make sure you like how they feel in your hand. Way better than buying online, and your getting premium plastic beat into it's sweet spot for $8. One other thing about them - my location has a deal where if you buy 10 used discs, you get to pick out any disc in the store for free. Not sure if that's a nationwide deal or not.

I've never thrown a Compass it just looked similar to the Leo with the flight numbers. Based on your experience so far, I'd ditch the explorer and make that Leo your workhorse. In fact, maybe pick up a new pro if the one you have is starting to beat in, and if you do make it to a play it again, see if you can find a star or champ that's somewhat beat in and see what the stability is like. I'd skip dx for the leopard, dx leopards are so flippy they are almost unusable in my experience. The good news is, is you like the leopard mold, you've just solved a big part of your bag, because leopards are available in a wide range of plastics so you can definitely fill the OS, straight and US driver slot.

I guess the key is to realize that your bag can be as simple or complicated as you want, but keeping it simple is the best way to better results. If you have a couple of molds you like (Compass, Leo), it's much better to play around with those molds in different plastics and weights. My advice would be to keep it simple for a while, then go out and look to add new molds if it's clear there is a shot missing from your bag.

 

[azplaya25]

I'm def getting stuff out of it, so no worries on the hijacking.

Strangely, I think another reason for mold minimizing is the fact that 90% of courses (100% lol) are basically a par 3. I was chatting with my sigot last round about my ideas that short game being at 90% is more valuable than your tee game being at 90%. By that I mean that if I throw a Leopard or a Teebird, or whatever other super long disc exists (at this stage in my game) I'm still getting within a roc shot of the pin, or at least of the putt... I'm not suggesting I won't eventually get into ace territory, but for now keeping my long game controlled, and practicing the short game seems hugely beneficial.

That said, I played a round yesterday with basically a Pro Leopard, Star Roc3, and Aviar (a couple shots with my River) and the round was a lot better. I think that Pro Leopard is a bit more stable than I'd like but it basically throws like a Teebird but not as long. Hopefully it'll work in a bit.

Short game is huge at all levels, and you see this debate in these forums all the time - is it more important to throw 400 feet or to have a strong short game. I think it all comes down to accuracy. Throwing 400 feet doesn't do anything for you if you're constantly going OB or bouncing off the first available tree. On the other hand, if you can't throw past 300, it's going to hurt you on some courses. I have a couple days a week I call my 200 - 20 days. Basically the concept is, whatever your confident putting range is, you need to get into that circle from 200 feet and in, every time. You'll lose more easy strokes if you screw up that part of your game than anything else. My putt is pretty solid from 20 and in, so I go to my local course with my rocs and aviars and just practice getting within 20 feet of the pin from all over the course. Buried in a tree throwing some awkward flick with an aviar. Spike hyzer over a tree with a roc. Just put yourself in all sorts of scramble situations, and just work on getting within 20 feet. It's a lot of fun and really helps lower your scores.

 

[Rastnav]

I guess the key is to realize that your bag can be as simple or complicated as you want, but keeping it simple is the best way to better results. If you have a couple of molds you like (Compass, Leo), it's much better to play around with those molds in different plastics and weights. My advice would be to keep it simple for a while, then go out and look to add new molds if it's clear there is a shot missing from your bag.

Hmmm, based on my experience with different plastics, but the same mold, I kinda feel like if they change the flight characteristics from US to OS, it's basically like throwing a different mold.

The disc I found in the garage when I started on this whole "Wow. Disc golf has got me on the hook!" journey, that was a pretty beat in starter pack, DX Leopard. When I got the GStar Leopard, I thought there was some sort of mistake. They are basically completely different discs. Don't get me wrong, I love this one, but throwing the original just didn't help me with the new one at all. I'm sure part of that was the extra 10 or 20 grams of weight, but still.

I certainly see the appeal of disc cycling in a single plastic, and bag simplicity is definitely something I am targetting eventually, but I don't know that taking an understable disc to an overstable disc by changing the plastic is all that different from changing molds?

 

[azplaya25]

Hmmm, based on my experience with different plastics, but the same mold, I kinda feel like if they change the flight characteristics from US to OS, it's basically like throwing a different mold.

The disc I found in the garage when I started on this whole "Wow. Disc golf has got me on the hook!" journey, that was a pretty beat in starter pack, DX Leopard. When I got the GStar Leopard, I thought there was some sort of mistake. They are basically completely different discs. Don't get me wrong, I love this one, but throwing the original just didn't help me with the new one at all. I'm sure part of that was the extra 10 or 20 grams of weight, but still.

I certainly see the appeal of disc cycling in a single plastic, and bag simplicity is definitely something I am targetting eventually, but I don't know that taking an understable disc to an overstable disc by changing the plastic is all that different from changing molds?

Oh it will feel sure feel like a different disc, but eventually you are going to want to "bookend" that slot in your bag with something OS, mainly to fight a headwind and also something that as your power improves you'll be able to throw and know that you won't turn it over. If you need to throw a big flex shot but turnover and going right will be a disaster, you'll want something more stable than a slightly beat pro leopard. My fairways are DX eagles, awesome discs but they get absolutely owned by a strong headwind. So I went and got a 175 star eagle that just fights wind and doesn't budge. I still throw my dx eagles in their various stages of beatness on almost every drive, but I find times where I need something really stable. I could get a whole new mold but figure that I like the eagle, might as well stick with it.


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[Olorin]

Why forget lightweights?

At your age of 38 you probably have enough strength and arm speed to turn light discs over too much. Also, light discs can be more inconsistent when thrown with more power, thus players prefer heavier weights. And light discs are more subject to interference from the wind. (But there is also a bogus macho stigma that "real men" only throw max weight discs that I think also hinders some guys unnecessarily.)

BTW, I'm a bit confused by several conflicting answers in your posts. Can you please reiterate your current throwing distance with your longest distance driver and your max distance with said driver?

(P.S.- I have to confess that the title of this thread ["old player"] also led my mind in the direction of thinking that you were 82 years old, and I was quite impressed that you were so passionate about the sport at such a mature age.)

 

[ProPilot04]

At your age of 38 you probably have enough strength and arm speed to turn light discs over too much. Also, light discs can be more inconsistent when thrown with more power, thus players prefer heavier weights. And light discs are more subject to interference from the wind. (But there is also a bogus macho stigma that "real men" only throw max weight discs that I think also hinders some guys unnecessarily.)

BTW, I'm a bit confused by several conflicting answers in your posts. Can you please reiterate your current throwing distance with your longest distance driver and your max distance with said driver?

(P.S.- I have to confess that the title of this thread ["old player"] also led my mind in the direction of thinking that you were 82 years old, and I was quite impressed that you were so passionate about the sport at such a mature age.)

Haha... man, I feel like I should just stick with the whole "I'm 82" gimmick for the internet cred lol.

Level ground open field throws in a RHBH are as follows
With the discs outlined in the early post...

DX Leopard, Pro Leopard, DX Teebird (Glow), and Opto River are all within about 20-30 ft of each other with the Teebird generally being the longest. Throwing (based on google measuring btw) about 275 avg low end to 300 avg high end.

DX Roc, Glo Buzz and grabbed a Star Roc3 (because my old Roc is flippy)
Looking at about 230-260 with the DX Roc being the consistent shorter disc.

 

[Casey 1988]

I certainly see the appeal of disc cycling in a single plastic, and bag simplicity is definitely something I am targetting eventually, but I don't know that taking an understable disc to an overstable disc by changing the plastic is all that different from changing molds?

This is true, however I do not care for cycling as much, but then again I do currently have a Neutral but still a tad OS Pro Shark to my OS Star Shark and will replace the Pro with Either a DX Shark or G-Star Shark to beat in to the Neutral slot. The other thing I do is different Premium plastic for molds like Valkyrie I use a nearly flat top Star Valkyrie to the Champion/Champion Glow Valkyrie at nearly same weight to get the one in Star more OS for better side wind ability that the Champion does not have. Another mold I do this with but more in Plastic weight is Champion Destroyer as any disc for me past 167 grams is going to be very OS due to weight for the speed of disc not helping me with distance so my Destroyer at 170 grams is beefy for very windy days I probably should not be out playing disc golf and the other just for windy days. So using Different plastic/different weights in some can change the OS of a disc to what I want. Same for the Pro Shark and Star Shark, when new once the mega oops flashing came off the the Star Shark was more quick fade not dump to ground but quick fade then the Pro Shark that would keep going forward in the fade before the Pro went Neutral. I wanted only with my Approach/driving putter slot then the Pro Shark to have a cycle of OS newer, Neutral older, and oldest possibly at US shot for tight woods flex approach shots. However when I got my Pro Shark at the weight I wanted the Pro plastic for the Shark was going oop in 2014. I had to get Star, now have backup discs as the since 2014-2015 oop plastic in 2019 got hard to find in the higher weights.

 

[DiscFifty]

DX Leopard, Pro Leopard, DX Teebird (Glow), and Opto River are all within about 20-30 ft of each other with the Teebird generally being the longest. Throwing (based on google measuring btw) about 275 avg low end to 300 avg high end.

DX Roc, Glo Buzz and grabbed a Star Roc3 (because my old Roc is flippy)
Looking at about 230-260 with the DX Roc being the consistent shorter disc.

Your distances are in line with typical intermediate and some (awesome short game) advanced players. I would just carry on doing field work, working on form, etc, etc. Honing in your short game, etc. Probably better at some point to post your form in the https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 section and get some feedback.

Keep at it!

 

[Bogeyman928]

Howdy squad, first time caller long time listener!


My questions are as follows:
1. Are there better/newer molds I should be after vs. the discs in my bag?
2. What does everyone think about my bag which is as follows...

Different brand but I just discovered the "Air" lightweight lineup in Trilogy plastic and am in love :
http://https://www.dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-plastics_a/290.htm