Pet peeves about filming disc golf

[dscmn]

First off, I really enjoy all of the videos that are being produced. My two pet peeves deal specifically with the SpinTV Japan Open videos.

First, there is constant, non-stop commentary that in my mind detracts from the superb visuals. I dare anyone to find two seconds of silence in the whole coverage. I'm not exaggerating about that at all. I think some silence allows the viewer to relax a bit and it can also build drama--but drama would only matter if the competition was the focus of the commentary.

That's my second pet peeve, the commentary treats the actual competition as secondary. For example, during the fifth round 2/2, at the 6:00 minute mark, Nate Doss pauses his commentary to say, by the way, there's Simon's shot, and then returns to the commentary, which seems more like an interview in disguise. I guess I'd like to see more focus on the actual competition between the players. Something along the lines of, "Nikko really needs to hit this putt to stay within two of the lead, as Paul has parked another drive." I'm not sure any commentators are really doing this kind of commentating in disc golf videos.

These are just my opinions and aren't meant simply to criticize. I really believe the product would benefit from some pauses and a greater focus on the competition taking place between the golfers. As I stated above, I really enjoy all the coverage regardless of my two pet peeves.

 

[forehandfranz]

This comment is about camera work specifically.....

I highly prefer the camera placed behind the players on the tee that zooms in on the disc to track the flight. Without the zoom on the disc to show where it's going, I feel the video is a waste of time.

Panning with the disc is the worst.

Many pull back shots from the fairway don't help either - it's akin to ball golf showing the white ball up in the sky - it does not help us see where the ball is going and does not get us into the game.

 

[Royalhghnss]

I don't want to see any more tap in putts on film. We know they are not going to miss. If they DO miss, then show us that, like Philo's ridiculous miss last year. Otherwise it's a waste of time to watch four or five guys bend over and throw their discs 4 feet into the basket.

But then if I show it you'll know it's not going to go in I've heard both opinions on this one.

Well said.

Nonetheless, if it is Central Coast commentary :thmbup: going on and shooting those tap-ins give them a chance to wrap-up their take on the hole, then ok. Otherwise, just give us the scores because no one else can give commentary like them (btw - nice try disc golf guy).

Thanks man!

I only watch Central Coast tournament coverage. They had a sweet drone cam at the beginning of one of their vids. Even though it just went straight up and didn't pan, it was awesome, and had me immediately questioning why they don't pimp that sucker out more often. A drone cam in the middle of the fairway that could do a birds eye from the fairway would be sweet. Probably asking too much, but also probably the best way to get on The Ocho.

I like how Central Coast uses a pic to point out the basket with an arrow, and I enjoy reading what disc they're throwing. I also manage to grab choice lines from the great commentary. I'm starting to say "working it" and "death putt" a lot. And of course, "Gotta want it."

O man I wish I owned a drone. Marty the media guy for the PDGA shot that footage with his drone and was super nice enough to let me use it.

Glad to hear you guys like the arrow pointing. That's one of my pet peeves when I'm watching other vids, and it's not obvious where the basket is. I don't know if they drives were good until I watch the upshot/putt.

Love the use of CCDG lingo!

I've only made a few disc golf tourney vids, but this is all good stuff to keep in mind. It really is a lot more work to get good tourney footage than to actually play in the tourney.

My two "pet peeves" are over-exposure and the vid being out of focus.

I've noticed the over-exposure problem lately on some vids taken at DeLa, but I cant remember who the YouTube Channel was. I believe it was multiple vids/channels. The out of focus problem usually happens when someone putting is filmed from behind. That player will be in focus, putt and hit chains/sink the basket, and then only after the basket comes in to focus.

O man, I'm so sorry about that. We had a new camera guy, and it didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped (the overexposure being the biggest problem). I debated putting it up at all, but I hope its better than nothing.

Marty does that focus thing on purpose I'm pretty sure. I'm more a fan of filming putts from the side so the viewer can tell how far the putt is. When you film from behind the putter 10 footers look the same as 30 footers.

That's my second pet peeve, the commentary treats the actual competition as secondary. For example, during the fifth round 2/2, at the 6:00 minute mark, Nate Doss pauses his commentary to say, by the way, there's Simon's shot, and then returns to the commentary, which seems more like an interview in disguise. I guess I'd like to see more focus on the actual competition between the players. Something along the lines of, "Nikko really needs to hit this putt to stay within two of the lead, as Paul has parked another drive." I'm not sure any commentators are really doing this kind of commentating in disc golf videos.

I've actually really been trying to focus on this in my commentary lately, I was hoping it showed, but I guess not. I'll continue to work on it.

Thanks for all the feedback guys

btw I agree with OP, behind the tee FTW. panning = a blurry mess by the time it's on youtube. It might look great at 60 frames a seconds, but youtube won't support it for lame reasons.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

The CCDG pre-hole stills with the arrow pointing at the basket are Fantastic.

 

[LeviW]

It might look great at 60 frames a seconds, but youtube won't support it for lame reasons.

Youtube is updating to 60fps. http://youtubecreator.blogspot.com/2014/06/look-ahead-creator-features-coming-to.html

 

[KDFrosty]

O man, I'm so sorry about that. We had a new camera guy, and it didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped (the overexposure being the biggest problem). I debated putting it up at all, but I hope its better than nothing.

Marty does that focus thing on purpose I'm pretty sure. I'm more a fan of filming putts from the side so the viewer can tell how far the putt is. When you film from behind the putter 10 footers look the same as 30 footers.

No, dont apologize! I completely understand that it can be difficult shooting in different and transitional lighting differences. I honestly didnt know that was a CCDG vid. I watch all of em. Keep on keepin on.

 

[Agricolae]

Marty does that focus thing on purpose I'm pretty sure. I'm more a fan of filming putts from the side so the viewer can tell how far the putt is. When you film from behind the putter 10 footers look the same as 30 footers.

I've actually really been trying to focus on this in my commentary lately, I was hoping it showed, but I guess not. I'll continue to work on it.

Another vote for filming putts from the side. Yes. Show me the player AND the basket in the same frame. I know, you can't do it with a telephoto lens. So, go normal to wide-angle. Telephoto compresses distance and makes the 40-footer-from-behind look like it should be a drop-in. Wide-angle expands the distance ... yeah, those 25-footers-from-the-side view look like monster putts. Better for entertainment that they look longer rather than shorter. Give me one player that walks to the basket to retrieve his disc and I can count steps and tell you how far out he was.

Someone back up-thread mentioned commentary and the necessity to leave some "breathing room". I agree. I also think that Ian and his crew at CCDG do a great job all around with their commentary. They tag-team with color- and technical commentary to keep the audience engaged, and laughing at times, while also providing key technical info on players and their position in the round/tournament. The CCDG guys do it, but for anyone else ... use the tap-in time to review the hole/round, who's hot / who's not, how the hole affected each player, what opportunities lie ahead and to whom do they favor.

Be quiet at times and let the action tell the story (Yes, Jamie is doing a great job at Spin, but I, too, had the thought in a couple of videos - Dela and Japan - that the commentary needed to slow down. Just as in music, the space between the notes (words) is just as important, sometimes more so, than the notes (words) themselves.

Imitate what works. Sit down and watch a few PGA tournaments. The CBS/Golf Channel folks have been doing this for a long time. Of course you don't have their budget nor equipment. But you can steal ideas for how to make the action and commentary flow and engage the viewer.

The quality of DG videos is getting better all the time. We, the viewers, certainly can't beat the price. Keep 'em coming and I hope the best of you will soon find a way to monetize your efforts in a way that works for everyone.

 

[Moify]

I just want to make a quick thank you to the producers from SpinTV and Central Coast Disc golf for chiming into this thread.

I appreciate your work so much, and I'm glad you are seeing this as constructive criticism and not just an attack on your work.

You already do great things for our sport, and as someone else mentioned, the tournament footage is improving all the time from all of you. Hopefully this info will be useful to you and you can get more attention and views on your channel.

Cheers, guys.

 

[netposer]

After someone makes a banger putt, I want to see the cameraman put his hand in front of the lense.

You'll get it if you've ever seen skate vids.

That morphed into keeping it in the video. Originally it was just for editing purposes so you knew that's the trick you wanted to put in the video.

 

[Toro71]

I recently had the chance to try out filming someone during a round, with his camera, and it really gave me a new appreciation for what these guys do (and I appreciated it already.)

A total layman, I mean I've never worked a vid camera with zoom before, and I'm pretty sure a chimp could do better than I was. And not just Ceasar from the Planet of the Apes flicks, but one of the pre-synapse-increasing viral treatment chimps that still throws his own poo at others. That chimp could film DG drives better than I.

 

[netposer]

I recently had the chance to try out filming someone during a round, with his camera, and it really gave me a new appreciation for what these guys do (and I appreciated it already.)

A total layman, I mean I've never worked a vid camera with zoom before, and I'm pretty sure a chimp could do better than I was. And not just Ceasar from the Planet of the Apes flicks, but one of the pre-synapse-increasing viral treatment chimps that still throws his own poo at others. That chimp could film DG drives better than I.

The hardest thing to me is following the disc via a 2.5" lcd screen. I have a viewfinder in one of my cameras which it makes that part much easier.

Another tricky part is keeping up with all the players on the card for 18 holes. Not that easy sometimes.

 

[Toro71]

The hardest thing to me is following the disc via a 2.5" lcd screen. I have a viewfinder in one of my cameras which it makes that part much easier.

Another tricky part is keeping up with all the players on the card for 18 holes. Not that easy sometimes.

Right, the LCD screen, totally. This camera had a fairly sensitive zoom, too, so it probably looks like I was trying to make some kind of whacked-out late 50's anti-drug propaganda film.

 

[ejvogie]

When you film from behind the putter 10 footers look the same as 30 footers.

If only putting worked the same way

 

[sidewinder22]

I agree with most of what has been said already.

1. I prefer view from behind the tee, I want to see the course and flight of the disc like the player sees it.

2. I hate panning shots, I lose all reference of the hole and get nauseated.

3. I don't like viewing tee shots from behind the basket either because I have to think about the hole in reverse.

4. Minimal zoom please until you can afford to get a copter or skycam.

5. Lighting is an issue in the woods where sun shines through parts, not sure what can be done about that other than pray for overcast skies.

6. I think things could often be cut faster. Yes I have ADHD.

7. Keep up the good work!

 

[netposer]

Working on a local event at Middle Creek DGC in Cary, NC.

Lead card (MPO). Should have it up on YT in a day or two.

It rained for the entire front 9.

 

[pmatt1969]

Tried it myself and it is so much harder than you think. Much props to the pros who let us enjoy their work. Thanks much

 

[dysmike]

.

5. Lighting is an issue in the woods where sun shines through parts, not sure what can be done about that other than pray for overcast skies.

That's about it. Dappled light flat out sucks, for controlled shoots a large scrim works, but would be impossible to use in this context. A great complaint.

 

[rakamkram]

I hate it when using a dual camera (or panning system), and after the cameras switch over, the cameraman gives you no idea of where the basket is. Showing the shot like that, you really have no idea if the disc ended up in a decent spot or not.

 

[DiscJunkie]

The Quality and Quantity of DG videos is up tremendously from just a few years ago. Thanks, SO MUCH!!!!!

My only pet peeve about DG videos is music. I don't mind the music in transition (Marty does this well) or in intros (lcgm8 has some interesting stuff), but I typically don't like the music that goes on for the entire video.
I want to hear birds chirping and chains ringing.
The music thing is happening less and less. It's the one thing that will get me to turn off a video the fastest.

Again, I just want to say thanks to all the well-known and less-well-known guys who are shooting DG vids.
Like some others have said, if you don't know how difficult it is, just try it.

THANKS, THANKS, THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Toro71]

I think there are some holes where a basket to tee view works well. I don't know what kind of holes they are, but I like watching a round with a few shots from that angle. I know when I'm watching a local course I know, and there's those holes where the first part of the tee shot is less interesting than the difficult green, where the challenge is landing close w/out going OB, or rolling away, etc, I like the basket view.

Panning @ mid fairway does generally seem to be a problem. Maybe on holes with really severe doglegs (> 90 deg) it can work..? But I don't mind, for blind shots/doglegs especially, the 2nd camera. 2+ camera work is obviously all about good editing, so switching from one to the other during a single throw doesn't translate as two different flights.

Music/commentary? I guess I like things the way they are. Multiple quality filmers out there each doing things their own way. CCDG with their commentary I like. McFly with minimal tracks and lots of ambient sound I like. Mike C's sort of skate vid inspired vids with music I like.

I do prefer to have as much info pre-hole as possible. I'm bad about remembering the scores, etc, so I like knowing where people stand each hole. Having a hole map or what have you before each is also nice when I don't know the course, and it's a blind tee shot, so I have no idea where they're trying to throw. Sometimes it can be like, was that a good shot or a shank?