Plant foot leverage / pivot release timing

[semisensei]

How does the timing of the pivot release on the heel of the plant foot affect the power of the throw?
If you begin to pivot on the heel while the disc is in the power pocket, is there a negative effect?
As in, should the plant foot stay planted until after the disc rips out? Or does it matter?

 

[FulaFirren]

How does the timing of the pivot release on the heel of the plant foot affect the power of the throw?
If you begin to pivot on the heel while the disc is in the power pocket, is there a negative effect?
As in, should the plant foot stay planted until after the disc rips out? Or does it matter?

It doesn't matter. Personally I think I lift my toes slightly before release. I think as my plant leg extends the weight shifts to the heel and I lift the toes as soon as that happens. Anyway, the idea is not to brace against the rotation, but to brace against the forward movement and provide a solid base to swing from (from the pocket out).

I think it's better to start with the upper body mechanics though and once you understand that you will figure out how to use your lower body to power that motion. You should be able to snap a disc from your knees or truly on one leg. The same idea applies to putting.

 

[gwsmallwood]

I was just watching this last night. Feldberg breaks down some of the bio kinetics behind the pivot.

https://youtu.be/FHy227OYGP0

 

[timothy42b]

It doesn't matter. Personally I think I lift my toes slightly before release. I think as my plant leg extends the weight shifts to the heel and I lift the toes as soon as that happens.

I thought that lifting the toe allowed the pivot on the heel without tearing your knee apart.

But watching the Dr Kwon videos I have a different idea. He emphasizes what he calls the kick from that leg. I think if you are landing on that heel but at the same time putting force into it with your leg (the Berkshire stomp?), you are not only forcing your torso rotation but your toe will come up. So the toe is not deliberate but just a check on if you drove with the front leg.

Maybe. Thinking out loud.

 

[FulaFirren]

I thought that lifting the toe allowed the pivot on the heel without tearing your knee apart.

But watching the Dr Kwon videos I have a different idea. He emphasizes what he calls the kick from that leg. I think if you are landing on that heel but at the same time putting force into it with your leg (the Berkshire stomp?), you are not only forcing your torso rotation but your toe will come up. So the toe is not deliberate but just a check on if you drove with the front leg.

Maybe. Thinking out loud.

Hmm, on a full drive that's certainly true. On a touch shot I might end up on my toes after not rotating at all on the heel. I think the heel pivot shouldn't be a focus, but then again I know I've focused on it in the past, and just because at this point it's so ingrained in my movement doesn't mean it's not worth paying attention to I suppose.

 

[Brychanus]

Based on my overhauled understanding, I would focus more on getting your body into a balanced position that leverages you into the plant/brace as part of the overall flow of the swing. The pivot release is an effect/part of the natural follow through of good balance/kinematic chain. The exact timing and direction of follow through including the pivot & where your weight goes afterwards depends on the speed/angles coming into the throw/hit.

 

[gwsmallwood]

Based on my overhauled understanding, I would focus more on getting your body into a balanced position that leverages you into the plant/brace as part of the overall flow of the swing. The pivot release is an effect/part of the natural follow through of good balance/kinematic chain. The exact timing and direction of follow through including the pivot & where your weight goes afterwards depends on the speed/angles coming into the throw/hit.

I slightly disagree. I've been actively working on my form for a few months now, and the pivot is not a natural result of anything for me. If I don't focus on doing it, my entire foot stays firmly planted and I end up jamming myself. Doesn't matter how I try to follow through, how good my balance is, etc. When my foot plants, it wants to stay planted, which isn't conducive to follow-through at all as it just puts a bunch of torque on my knee.

 

[Brychanus]

I slightly disagree. I've been actively working on my form for a few months now, and the pivot is not a natural result of anything for me. If I don't focus on doing it, my entire foot stays firmly planted and I end up jamming myself. Doesn't matter how I try to follow through, how good my balance is, etc. When my foot plants, it wants to stay planted, which isn't conducive to follow-through at all as it just puts a bunch of torque on my knee.

Sounds scary, I am unfortunately no stranger to DG knee issues. I wonder what is happening upstream getting you jammed.

 

[gwsmallwood]

Sounds scary, I am unfortunately no stranger to DG knee issues. I wonder what is happening upstream getting you jammed.

It's definitely not ideal. After watching that Feldberg video I linked above, and watching more footage of pros, I'm thinking this is what I should be focusing on next. Figuring out how to allow the pivot on the plant foot so that I can get that right hip cleared and have a more natural follow-through.

 

[sidewinder22]

Have to find the right balance on the front foot so that the swing momentum pulls it into effortless pivot.