Profitability: disc golf physical store / pay to play course?

[apparition]

I doubt it has much to do with how he feels about the greatness or validation of other businesses. I bet all my discs it is purely to snag the business of the customers that type URLs in the address bar wrong. It's just as prerube says, "standard procedure". And conversely, let's not forget that the bottomline with those DN imitators has little to do with DN setting the quality bar high and mostly to do with the fact that DN is obviously selling discs like crazy and making profits along the way. The live inventory, if always accurately portraying sales, makes it very transparent just how many discs move off their site(s) everyday. I'm sure at some point the numbers could be changed if it would help move discs.

TL;DR - It all boils down to success = profitability (the topic of this thread!). If it's good for business, that's all that matters.

 

[prerube]

I agree with you except on the DiscNation imitators. People steal ideas and picture for their site because of the ease of use and the quality of the site, not because disc nation sells a lot.

 

[apparition]

Ease of use and site quality = success = sales

 

[prerube]

Ease of use and site quality = success = sales

yes, the sales come because the site is easy to use and has nice features, but another site that is selling more discs may not be getting their ideas riped off as much as disc nation. It has nothing to do with the amount of sales.

 

[apparition]

I don't know man, I can't say for sure why some business's ideas aren't getting ripped off as much as DN (who can?). All I can actually say for sure is that for most retailers everything boils down to sales and profitability. I would guess that if a retailer isn't getting their ideas ripped off or ripping off others then they either a) already have a great business model of their own that other people haven't picked up on or b) can't imitate others well enough to integrate other business's strategies into their own.

 

[prerube]

What I am saying is that Discnation's business model is good, so why do they need to have these backdoor domains, but we are off topic and arguing unimportant semantics. It sounds like I am bad mouthing disc nation and that is definitely not my intent.

 

[apparition]

I don't think the profitability of disc golf stores is off topic, but I agree with the sentiment that owning your competitor's misspelled/alternate domains is in a grey area.

Anyway, we've heard directly from DN and the management(?) of Morley Field. Does anyone have any store/course contacts that they can talk to about this?

 

[mashnut]

I only have second hand knowledge, but Sabbatus in Maine seemed to be a profitable course complex with a pro shop on site. There were a ton of people playing, and the number I heard was 1000-1200 paying players per week during the summer plus whatever discs/equipment/snacks sold in the shop.

 

[ZAMson]

Maybe when people take standard business procedure and try to read more into it, they start getting weird reasons, from validation to (srsly?) money laundering.

MSt is a well-known name and they're great at what they do, but it's very much unlike what we do. If all of aaparition's discs are on the line, then the truth probably has more to do with Google's page rank handling of redirects. Whoever types in a MSt address wants to go to MSt, and they'll probably end up there. Trying to shark some small percentage of some obscure sliver of their business like that, c'mon... does that really seem like a cost effective way to drive sales?

FWIW I think there's room in every type of market for mainstream models and boutique models. DN/MSt are perfect examples, in fact MSt is THE model for boutique online DG shopping. For that matter DD is crazy different than DN as well.

As for our ideas being appropriated, bring it on! We think hard every day Thinking hard about frisbee is a huge part of why I'm at DN. Developer nerds, retail nerds, and disc golf nerds get together 5 days a week and try to blow the lid off of disc golf. Not by stealing the business of other shops, but by making disc golf more accessible and approachable to the people.

 

[ZAMson]

Sabbatus and Morley were both around 7 years ago... I was their Millennium rep back in the day. Being open 7 years ago says it all in disc golf

 

[ZAMson]

Does anyone have any store/course contacts that they can talk to about this?

You could PM John Houck via this site. I started my career at his ranch, and there were 36 holes on 100 acres (maintained) and 150 total. Fully stocked pro shop, big warehouse with Innova distribution, tee signs and other course gigs, the Millennium HQ, a whole lot of stuff going on... like a disc golf ant farm. They eventually had to reconfigure the business a couple times and sell the ranch, but they're still running smoothly with projects and events. The ranch was open for 10-12 years I believe.

 

[JOtter]

In the world of internet sales there are some things that are proven to work.

1. User Experience, which translates into an easy to navigate site with the features that the shoppers want.
2. Search engine rank, search engines will sometimes change there algorithms, and if the websites don't change with them they will be left in the dust
3. Branded sites, its very common for one company to sell to different demographics with a different "company" site, but the service, support and inventory are all from the exact same vendor.
4. Marketing research, make small changes and measure how they are received by the shoppers, and constantly tweak them to improve sales.

This is what DN is doing, theirs nothing at all wrong with it, its just modern business. I work for a company whos website is in the top 100, with regards to number of hits a day, and we do all the above.

 

[apparition]

I spoke with the owner operator of a course and disc shop today. It sounds like his course can do fairly well, but the time required to keep it up can be too much sometimes. He was much more optimistic about the store. They carry between 2,000 and 2,500 discs at any time. He's in a rural area and believes in a less rural area, if summers continue to be so dry like this one, and if the sport continues to rise in popularity, then store ownership will become a more profitable venture. Still, I didn't get any idea of how profitable it can be.

 

[TROTTER]

Let's try this again. My little operation had 1600 disc inventory in constant rotation. As a part-time gig out of box truck and online sales net would worked out to 28k to 31k for the year. ZERO employees. You must order right, merch and host tourneys and hustle the internet - but it can be done.

My overhead was next to nothing. 2,500 box truck, FREE Storenvy store and hustling the boards and banner ads up here and on TALKdg.

 

[TROTTER]

That said... adding a store location at the going rate in our area - about 1300 per month would take have the money away as a fixed cost... And for damn sure 15k ain't worth all that hassle considering all of the risk/liability and capital outlays to obtain it.

Nevermind the added insurance and having to man the store.

 

[coreyzd]

You should ask Alan Peir. Had his own 32 hole course, manufactured his own baskets and STILL couldn't keep it going on his own land. Peiradise DGC, Peru, IN.

Hm? Pieradise is still up and running, I play there quite often. From what I gather, Alan doesn't make much profit if any. He charges $4/day and $80 for a season pass (march-October). He also has a proshop and his prices are usually the lowest you'll find (he even gives a $2 discount to season pass holders on certain discs.) He's clearly not running pieradise to make money, if he was it probably wouldn't be for sale. But depending on where you are, I don't think you're going to have much luck getting disc golfers to pay more than $4/day.

 

[prerube]

MSt is a well-known name and they're great at what they do, but it's very much unlike what we do. If all of aaparition's discs are on the line, then the truth probably has more to do with Google's page rank handling of redirects. Whoever types in a MSt address wants to go to MSt, and they'll probably end up there. Trying to shark some small percentage of some obscure sliver of their business like that, c'mon... does that really seem like a cost effective way to drive sales?

So you guys do not pay to own the domain Marshallstreetdiscs?

This thread reads like you resume, very impressive. I would hire you

 

[MrHighlandPark]

Any business that's fun to run and a dream of many people to own is not going to pay very well. Maybe if you buy up the very best DG land in a developed area, you can sell it to billionaires who would have bought pro football teams for prestige in a previous generation. That's assuming disc golf is as popular as pro football 30 years from now.

Making 30k a year off of fully paid land sounds like a legitimate possibility as a post retirement gig, but it certainly isn't the path TO retirement.

If you have the best land and course in a well populated area, I'm pretty confident that you will be pulling in well over $5 a head in the not so distant future. Maple Hill doubled their price to $10 this year, and I think they could comfortably raise that another 10-20% a year with no lost players. I think the prospects for the third or fourth best course in a given area are far less promising though.

Ball golf courses make a ton of money from beer sales. That may be part of the formula.

 

[apparition]

That's interesting. I wonder if disc golf will ever get as expensive and crazy as ball golf. Would anyone on here travel to an island to play disc golf?

 

[davistd0]

Portland, ME's (population appx 70,000) closest course is about 10-15min from downtown. It is called Pleasant Hill (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2441) and is built on land which used to be a ball golf course. So it is beginner/rec player friendly. If you play with OB's, and with the added difficulty of 3 major water hazards, it is also a fun course for more seasoned artists of the game. It is $5 to play all day. I've heard that this course gets 400+ players on a nice weekend day, and 150+ on a nice week day (May through Sept). It is so busy, many people have stopped playing due to all the backups and noobs to deal with. Course upkeep is fairly simple too, since 99% of the playing surface is nice grass.

That is probably the best example of a profitable course I can think of. Perfect location, low maintenance, and an excellent course regardless.

Most courses in ME (36 out of 44 I think) are $5 to play a round and $8-$10 for the day. And that doesn't stop people from playing.