seedlings
* Ace Member *
Marwede has a similar style putt. If you look at the 5:20 mark, he releases differently than you, kinda like Ricky. Maybe stare and compare yours and Marwede?
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Push Putting Help
- Thread starter blayed
- Start date
Those bricks are really hard on the basket.
drk_evns
Eagle Member
Thank you! Quick point of clarification do you use a regular hammer or like a weighted sledge/mallet?
drk_evns
Eagle Member
Honestly I just have an old hammer. Anything heavy works. Just go toss it around your yard and feel the delay between your lower body and arm.
The one thing thats mind blowing about his putt is that he finishes with his like his 4 fingers under the disc and thumb facing forward and is totally unobstructed/clean release. I can never get the release right like his with the heel of the palm pointing at the basket.
A lot of people say putting is 100% mental ... I disagree. I think putting is 100% athleticism and timing. Even push putting requires very precise timing to eliminate left/right misses.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
His hand/wrist makes barely a quarter turn to put spin on the disc.
Aiming and focusing are 100% mental. Staring down one link and searing it into your aim, can be completely undone by the sound of a walnut crashing to the ground behind you. People say putting is mental because they already assume you've put in the hours to nail down the athletic timing. Repeating a motion and timing can get me to chain three c2 putts in a row practicing. On the course I have to focus on aim and hope my pinky doesn't screw it up. Or that stupid vine that cost me a missed putt today.
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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This is why I got a huge laugh about everyone complaining about practice putting with your eyes closed as I suggested.
I've never seen the staring down the chain thing as being really the right way to practice putt. Were not doing archery or precision sports here, thats a completely different mental game with so many less variables than throwing a floaty saucer at a massive target.
You can realistically over focus putting where the wallnut distracts, the person 200 yards behind the basket moving distracts you. And the noise or visual will cause you to make a last second correction while putting.
Which is why I teach to aim with your feet and keep the putting stroke as identical everytime as possible. Because the more you try and arm correct, the more chances you're gonna pull a disc on a putting stroke due to distractions as well.
All I'm doing is trying to break it down to the most basic of basic of basic instinct and motion.
The more variables you remove from the equation in the process, the less chances you'll have of being distracted when the time comes.
Repetition is always king, but there are ways to reduce repetition. And that's focusing on the mental core of the process, vs brute forcing your way with numbers passed it.
Have any of you had this issue and fixed it? I often get misfires where the disc will catch on my ring finger, lift the back of the disc up, and have the disc tumble down and left? See video:
https://youtu.be/dsQCTl_vYNw
*sigh* I wish putting wasn't so difficult lol
https://youtu.be/dsQCTl_vYNw
*sigh* I wish putting wasn't so difficult lol
I'm not sure if you're still having the same trouble with wobbly putts and pulling right but I thought I'd share what worked for me. I was having similar problems and have recently found that it helps me to practice being loose and fluid throughout my putting motion.
The main reason this seems to be working for me is because my wrist can naturally coil and uncoil during the putting stroke. I have found that muscling the disc while putting is just as bad as muscling during a backhand throw. I think that actively muscling the putt causes me to pull the disc off line. Alternately, if my wrist remains board straight, the disc has very little spin and wobbles.
Lately I've been focused on having a smooth natural feeling stroke with a little bit of wrist coil at the bottom of the backswing, almost as if the weight of the disc has brought my hand in further. During the up swing, I try to bring everything up and forward and the weight of the disc pulls my hand out into the shake hands with the basket position. I also try to finish with my palm up a bit. For some reason my hand has a natural tendency to finish Palm down and it leads to short powerless putts.
It also really helped me to practice from 30 and 40 feet without any concern for making the putt. I try to analyze how the stroke felt and how much effort it takes to move it forward. When I muscle the putt, 40 ft feels unreachable. If everything is smooth and fluid, a 40 footer can easily sail past the basket.
The main reason this seems to be working for me is because my wrist can naturally coil and uncoil during the putting stroke. I have found that muscling the disc while putting is just as bad as muscling during a backhand throw. I think that actively muscling the putt causes me to pull the disc off line. Alternately, if my wrist remains board straight, the disc has very little spin and wobbles.
Lately I've been focused on having a smooth natural feeling stroke with a little bit of wrist coil at the bottom of the backswing, almost as if the weight of the disc has brought my hand in further. During the up swing, I try to bring everything up and forward and the weight of the disc pulls my hand out into the shake hands with the basket position. I also try to finish with my palm up a bit. For some reason my hand has a natural tendency to finish Palm down and it leads to short powerless putts.
It also really helped me to practice from 30 and 40 feet without any concern for making the putt. I try to analyze how the stroke felt and how much effort it takes to move it forward. When I muscle the putt, 40 ft feels unreachable. If everything is smooth and fluid, a 40 footer can easily sail past the basket.
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I agree, keeping the arm loose helps me a lot! I also try to finish palm up but my arm naturally finishes that way. I don't know if my wrist coils or not but I will definitely try your 30-40footer "Drill"
Open question to you or other people, where do you feel the pressure when you hold the disc? I feel almost all the pressure on the inside of my ring fingertip. This is also the last point of contact and this is one that catches and causes wobble. It feels like my hand naturally supinates and then the ring comes up and rubs along the bottom of the disc and causes a ton of wobble
It's hard for me to describe but I feel fairly even pressure through all fingers except the index finger which I keep on the edge of the rim. I set my grip by tossing/spinning the disc upwards vertically and catching it naturally.
Ok, I think i've come to a bit of a breakthrough. If you're push putting but still missing left and right, what was happening in my case was I was (unintentionally) creating a pivot with my fingers. In a sense I was doing a spush putt with my "fingers" rather than wrist. This creates problems because now not only are you missing up down left and right, but unlike a true "spush" putt you're not compensating for it. You're trying to go straight and this disc is going left and right out of the hand. You're "shaking hands with the basket" and "picking a link" 10 feet from the basket and still missing. I have literally airballed 10ft putts this way.
The fix for this is to learn to push with the heel of your palm straight at the target. The million dollar question is "how?" It's not really well explained anywhere, and it's kind of abstract. It starts with having the disc firmly in the palm of your hand, with pressure on the ring, middle and pinky fingers and virtually no pressure on the index and thumb. Some people use the pinky to tuck the disc into the palm but this isnt comfortable for me. The other part of it is visualizing and committing to "pushing with the heel" of your palm and practicing until you get it. I still misfire but when I get it right its almost like im scooping the disc with the heel of my palm to the target. I come down slow and then swing up fast while opening my hand, really focusing on the palm. When you do it correctly the disc will come out with a lot more pace than you would think. It also feels a lot more jerky than you would think but if you look at Aaron Gossage or Feldberg putt it really is jerkier than like a smooth spush putt. It really is the anti-touch putt. When it hits you can't mess it up.
The fix for this is to learn to push with the heel of your palm straight at the target. The million dollar question is "how?" It's not really well explained anywhere, and it's kind of abstract. It starts with having the disc firmly in the palm of your hand, with pressure on the ring, middle and pinky fingers and virtually no pressure on the index and thumb. Some people use the pinky to tuck the disc into the palm but this isnt comfortable for me. The other part of it is visualizing and committing to "pushing with the heel" of your palm and practicing until you get it. I still misfire but when I get it right its almost like im scooping the disc with the heel of my palm to the target. I come down slow and then swing up fast while opening my hand, really focusing on the palm. When you do it correctly the disc will come out with a lot more pace than you would think. It also feels a lot more jerky than you would think but if you look at Aaron Gossage or Feldberg putt it really is jerkier than like a smooth spush putt. It really is the anti-touch putt. When it hits you can't mess it up.
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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This is very similiar to how I putt.
But I'm focused heavily on the pinky finger for the "feel" I'm looking for.
As for the right and left stuff.
This is why I encourage people to never stand and huck at the basket. Cause you start arm compensating for aim, vs aiming with your feet and body in a repeatable stroke.
I realized that like the titanic and other difficult engineering challenges, the most difficult problems to fix are not ones where there was one big thing but like 5-10 little things that add up. I feel the same way about my putt. I am starting to feel more confident with my putt and the "fixes" (still a work in progress!!) are the combination of the following mechanics:
This is still a work in progress and there are gonna be things to add to this list over time but it's really about eliminating as many mechanical variables as possible. Huge help to A Ray for sending me a fantastic video highlighting these.
- Grip: The grip NEEDS to be "backloaded" Meaning the pressure is to the back of the palm and between the pinky and ring fingers. Anything else will cause an unintentional spin putt (see post above)
- No bending at the waist: What I mean is that I would bend up at the hips on my upswing. If you look at rick or aaron gossage, their spine angle is kind of locked during their putt:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z-ENNGkJBo . Need to shift weight not bend up and down. This helps prevent the "unsheating the sword" mechanic where the arm naturally wants to finish up and to the right, bringing the disc up to the right.
- Timing: This one is still a work in progress but kind of related to the above point but you know how with a backhand you create lag? With the push putt the arm and lower body need to move together at the same time as close as possible. See above video but what I would do is I would start moving my body forward as my disc was still moving backwards.
- Aim: "Aim at a link" "putt through the basket" are great tips for spin putters. If you have a laser spin putt at 20ft you need to hit a specific link and you need to give it 25ft of power. This is not what you want in a push putt. Your aim point is kind of the opposite. Because parabolic trajectory of the pitch putt, If you're push putting, you need to aim at an imaginary point, about top band height, Halfway to 3/4 of the way to the basket. So on a 25ft putt i'm actually only doing an 20ft putt and having the disc fall down to the heart of the basket. See the first part of ricks slow mo video.
This is still a work in progress and there are gonna be things to add to this list over time but it's really about eliminating as many mechanical variables as possible. Huge help to A Ray for sending me a fantastic video highlighting these.
timothy42b
Eagle Member
This is interesting and I may have been wrong about how I thought this worked. I watched that video slowly a number of times.
I have thought that the arm is powered by the hip hinge, and that one of the best preparations for that is probably the Single Leg Dead Lift. But I should see the angle from thigh to spine straightening during the throw, and in your video I don't think I see that. (Well, I do, but the disc is already gone at that point.)
But I also don't see a forward weight shift. I see vertical pressure downwards as the forward leg straightens, while the hip hinge maintains the angle not allowing any slack. The back leg comes up not to show forward shift, but to balance the torso in front of the leg.
Maybe, anyway.
The forward weight shift happens earlier. During the downswing you see his toe is off the ground, front leg extended and back leg bent. Once the disc reaches the peak of the backswing, the arm and the body move together forward. In that video actually the body shifts a few milliseconds first but close enough.
In a way during the downswing the lower body is locked and the arm is swinging down. The hips may bend a bit. Then when the upswing starts the lower body shifts and upper body is locked - just arm. You can see Connor o'reilly do the same thing in his reel: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cj5iARDtwPZ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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