Rebuilding CLard's throw

[clard]

I started playing disc golf about 4 years ago. For the first year or two I played on and off, but never really committed to improving my game. The people I played with are great guys, but none of them had a particularly strong game so there wasn't really anyone for me to "look up to" in terms of skill. During college I only played the occasional round, and stopped playing altogether for a couple six month sessions.

Last year, 2013, I practiced pretty seriously at the beginning of the year, and started playing twice a week in the local league. This was when I officially caught the bug. I practiced every day. I played as often as possible. During league rounds I was consistently finishing in the top 3 (out of 10-20 depending on the day). I could throw farther than just about anyone else, but still wasn't getting huge distance.

I played in a handful of pdga C-tiers and got two 1st places and one 2nd place in advanced as well as one 2nd place finish in open (granted this was an extremely small tournament and I make no claim that I am an open quality player). 59116

This brings us to the present. I had a hand injury at the beginning of November (followed through into a tree :thmbdown which put me out of commission for a month, and now I'm completely healed. However, over the winter I lost about 20'-40' off of my previous max of 380-390. I can throw about 320-350 consistently, rhbh, with my Saints and 340-360 with my trespasses.

To be really competitive I know I need to gain distance, but I am having a hard time doing that by just making small modifications to my current form. Usually I make some small change, but then keep on playing casual rounds pretty regularly and completely forget the changes I've made and thus wind up right back where I was to begin with. I haven't committed to really reworking my throw in order to really improve.

I'm committing right now! This year I'm going to rebuild my throw starting with the right pec drill, and the general bent elbow technique that Blake_T outlined over at DGR. I'm roughly basing my rework on "the process". The plan is to only throw putters from the right pec, from a standstill until I've developed some snap, then incorporate a reach back, then work through 1 step, 2 step, x step.

Any general advice on going through this process, drills I should look into, etc. would be a great help. One of the main things I would like advice on is what distances I should be trying to get to at the different steps. How far should I be throwing my putters from a standstill, right pec throw before I try to incorporate a reachback? How much distance should I be gaining from the reachback?

I'll be posting videos for critique, and notes on progress as I go. Wish me luck, folks!

 

[danostrowski]

Search for "seabas22 door frame drill" on YouTube and watch all 3 of sw22's videos that come back in the results.

 

[clard]

Thanks, danostrowski! I have watched his videos a BUNCH of times already, but I review most of the technique videos around every week or two because I find that I get caught up on a single aspect of what they are trying to demonstrate and ignore everything else. Then every subsequent time I watch the video I get something new. Kinda like Donnie Darko

 

[danostrowski]

I hear ya, man. It's a rough balance, keeping your focus but not getting too hung up on any one thing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Welcome to the grind, it's typically a slow arduous process of improvement. It's really hard to put distances on drills and such. I prefer the Closed Shoulder Drill over the Right Pec, they are pretty much the same thing but take the points of both. Drills are drills, don't over do them, they exaggerate things. Get a stack of Teebirds and throw. I video recorded most of my field practices which was like a once a week and went back over the tape and compared to the top players and see what the differences were, then tried to work something new in each session. What often happens is that your efficiency will improve and then distance over time.

 

[clard]

Brad Walker's closed shoulder drill? I haven't looked at that one in a while, but I'll go check it out again.



Do you record just using your phone or do you have a camera that is better for high speed stuff?

I went out to the field yesterday and threw from the right pec with no steps and minimal upper body rotation and was getting my pures out to 180-210. I measured the field off with a 300ft measuring tape that my lovely girlfriend got for me for Christmas! The one thing that was consistently going wrong was that I pulled everything to the right (rhbh). Can't quite figure out what's going on there yet.

 

[clard]

I did some more field work today after watching the closed shoulder drill video. It was crazy to watch my putters fly 220-260 (I wasn't terribly consistent) with almost no reach back and minimal shoulder turn. When I hit it right I could really feel the disc tugging on the end of my fingers.

At the end I threw a handful with a bigger reach back and they all fell short of the ones I threw without a reach back. I definitely wasn't timing it right, but it was so cool to see that focusing the acceleration at the right part of the throw is WAY more important than coming into the throw with a lot of speed. I already "knew" that, but I didn't really understand it.

 

[clard]

Here are some videos of me throwing this morning. It was hella cold. All of these throws are with Saints and Escapes and went between 325-350.




I feel like I am spinning my shoulders through really fast or something...

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Your rear foot comes off the ground too early due to most of your weight already forward when starting the run-up. The feeling you mention is likely caused by starting your power from the shoulders vs hips and why you feel like they are leading the throw or "moving fast"..

Technique is not bad but timing a little off. Try keeping weight back on rear foot longer and generating your power at the hips from the start of your pull through. Should get more weight transfer and a fluid feeling vs strong arming with shoulders. I battle with this same issue and maxed out around 330-350 for a long time b/c of it.

Shortening/compacting your stance/footwork could help.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

example^

 

[sidewinder22]

Decent mechanics. I'd say you need to coil/compress more into the rear leg/hip and stride more forward. Your shoulder/hip isn't turned very far back at the plant.

 

[clard]

Thanks for the advice, aftc. I noticed my weight being too far forward when I was comparing those vids to the Schusterick driving videos. I'm definitely not engaging my hips enough, and when I experimented a bit I got one or two bombs out to 370 by really focusing on the hips leading. I'll keep working on that. Paige is a monster. I'm so jealous.

Thanks, sw22, I'll work on engaging the legs and hips more. I like the wall drill; it really lets you feel what you should be doing.

 

[clard]

One thing I noticed is that unlike a lot of people who are crushing it I am pulling from outside in not inside out. Is this something that will be helped by leg/hip stuff, or do I need to focus on doing something different with my arm so that it is coming out from my body rather than being pulled in front of it. If you watch my throws you'll notice that I always pull right/late release and very rarely have anything come out straight.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you understand snap mechanics because you had success with the closed shoulder drill and your throw looks decent, but the way you are moving inhibits a straight release, you need to get your body out of the way. The door frame drill will also help.

 

[clard]

...but the way you are moving inhibits a straight release, you need to get your body out of the way. The door frame drill will also help.

I don't understand what you mean. How is my body in the way, and how can I get it out of the way?

 

[danostrowski]

I don't understand what you mean. How is my body in the way, and how can I get it out of the way?

See how the disc isn't clear of your arm/shoulder/etc?

Watch door frame drill 3 and note the part where he talks about how you have to walk around the frame you have to keep the disc further out than you'd think.

 

[clard]

Well, it's been a long time. This year was a weird disc golf year for me. I felt like my game improved, but my distance didn't.

I'm working on my stand still/half step throw in these videos, and I'm throwing G* FDs.

In the first video I'm hitting 310-330 with the occasional one gliding out to 340. It doesn't seem like I'm getting much of anything out of my hips and legs which is why I haven't been able to break 400' ever.


This video was taken yesterday and I'm trying really hard to turn my hips back and initiate the throw with them. It felt different. Most of these went about 300-320. Definitely didn't get them as far as I was before, but 1 step back 2 steps forward and all that.


One of the things that I notice is that at the moment the disc leaves my hand my shoulders are very open compared to, say, HUB's shots here:

Help me!

Merry Christmas, everybody!

 

[sidewinder22]

First video you are opening your front leg/hip before you plant and in an non-athletic horse stance. You want more internal hip rotation as you plant/squeeze between the knees. You can see your front foot is on the outside edge of your foot. You need to keep your posture and weight pressure to the inside edge of your foot like a skier in a turn.

Second video looks a little better, but you are still striding so far forward, you can't get your lower spine braced properly. Your front knee turns past your ankle so your posture is collapsing there. Knees aren't meant to turn, they only like to move up and down. You can release the torque in the knee by straightening it up, that will also create more weight shift as you almost jump.

Watch GG's front knee and foot:


You are over tilting like around the 4min:


Plant/weightshift should be more closed and from behind you like:

 

[clard]

You want more internal hip rotation as you plant/squeeze between the knees.

More internal hip rotation of both hips?

You can release the torque in the knee by straightening it up, that will also create more weight shift as you almost jump.

Are you saying I should straighten it up?

Thanks for all the help. I'm excited to try to implement some of this stuff. I'm definitely starting to see how I'm not bracing effectively at all.

 

[sidewinder22]

More internal hip rotation of both hips?



Are you saying I should straighten it up?

Thanks for all the help. I'm excited to try to implement some of this stuff. I'm definitely starting to see how I'm not bracing effectively at all.

Both hips.

Somewhat straighten or stiffen up to brace and shift weight.
http://betterdg.com/topic/14-video-on-hip-bump-by-dave-feldberg/