Requirements to be 1000 rated.

[Cgkdisc]

Definitely an interesting topic and I hope the PDGA can help us move forward with mining more stats along these lines.

 

[JR]

An enthusiastic x2!

 

[Frank Delicious]

Definitely an interesting topic and I hope the PDGA can help us move forward with mining more stats along these lines.

As a guy who loves sabermetics in baseball, I would love to see disc golf have some official stats and quantifiable ways to measure players besides their ratings and score.

 

[Mr. Wick]

I've gotten to play with Sjur and Bard Soleng here in CT (sponsored by Innova and Discraft respectively). They're both 1000+ rated, and although they do throw 400+ on big drives, it is their ability to hit tight gaps on wooded holes with maximum accuracy. They do this by being able to throw putters and mid-ranges as far as casual players will be able to throw a driver, but with a much higher degree of accuracy and margin for error.

And they do this consistently. Consistency is so key to shooting highly rated rounds. IMO its what seperates the am from the pro.

 

[t i m]

Try this -- any of you. Take your local course scorecard and look at the distances. Work through the card with an imaginary 1000-rated player who has 100% accuracy up to 300 feet and 100% accuracy at 30' putts. Therefore, any hole up to 330' is a deuce, any hole up to 630 is a 3, any hole up to 930 is a 4...

Yes, this is a theoretical player, and we're not taking into effect uphill and downhill, trees, etc... but since any pro we're talking about can throw more than 300', I think this is a pretty good number. They will also make a lot of putts outside of 30', but for this exercise, we're using 300/30 at 100% as hard numbers. See what those players shoot and see how that compares to the SSA for whatever course you're looking at.

I looked quickly at three courses people would be familiar with -- Renny Gold, Delaveaga and Maple Hill -- and ran the numbers and compared them to tourney SSAs from big events in 2008.

* Renny Gold has an SSA of ~70, and playing 300/30, someone would shoot a 55 in that layout, about a 1085-rated round.
* Delaveaga has an SSA of ~81 for 27 holes, and playing 300/30, someone would shoot a 66, about a 1091-rated round.
* Maple Hill longs has an SSA of ~62.5, and playing 300/30, someone would shoot a 48, about a 1107-rated round.

I don't think someone needs to be able to throw 400-feet to be a 1000-rated player. The theoretical, mistake-free player above is averaging more than 50-rating-points higher than any golfer in the PDGA, and that's without landing any drive over 300-feet.

Sure, driving farther helps, but accuracy and consistency are far more important to scoring well. I don't think not being able to reach 400' holes matters as long as you make sure you take ALL of the short birdies.

Test 300/30 with your local course scorecard, and see how that theoretical pro does against your best scores. And we know that ANY of us are capable of throwing 300/30... it's just a matter of doing it accurately, over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

 

[Cgkdisc]

One way to pull off a 1000+ rated round which worked for me is to play well in heavier winds in an area where heavier winds aren't common. That can boost the normal SSA on a layout 3 to 4 throws. So if you don't give up those additional shots from the wind challenge, you can get there by just playing a little better than normal.

 

[black udder]

I don't think someone needs to be able to throw 400-feet to be a 1000-rated player. The theoretical, mistake-free player above is averaging more than 50-rating-points higher than any golfer in the PDGA, and that's without landing any drive over 300-feet.

Sure, driving farther helps, but accuracy and consistency are far more important to scoring well. I don't think not being able to reach 400' holes matters as long as you make sure you take ALL of the short birdies.

Understand, when I say throwing over 400' helps, I mean because a player throwing 300' typically can't do it with a putter, it's their distance shot. Throwing 400' allows you to throw slower discs with more control and allows you more consistency and accuracy.

It doesn't mean you're only good when throwing 400'.

it's 100% fact that my game improved when I was able to throw my putters 275'. I can throw them on a reasonably low line around 230'-250'. All my shots improved. Short hole drives, upshots and putting.

Looking back at the USDGC when Avery had that horrible hole (I forget the #) and threw several discs OB. he's throwing putters. Imagine trying to land a driver without skipping or rolling on that smooth green.

Throwing 400' is, for me, a measure of skill. When you can throw over 400' it means that your form is clean enough for you to take advantage of throwing the slower discs on holes under 300' (or for some pros, Rocs on 350' holes). Distance by itself isn't everything, but without that distance, it's harder to compete with the better players.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Looking back at the USDGC when Avery had that horrible hole (I forget the #) and threw several discs OB. he's throwing putters. Imagine trying to land a driver without skipping or rolling on that smooth green.

Hole 3. I disgaree with that punitive retee OB. Ball golf doesn't have a single hole with a required retee for landing in a hazard. There should be a drop zone across the road on that hole. He still could have taken a 7 with the drop zone but less likely.

 

[black udder]

Looking back at the USDGC when Avery had that horrible hole (I forget the #) and threw several discs OB. he's throwing putters. Imagine trying to land a driver without skipping or rolling on that smooth green.

Hole 3. I disgaree with that punitive retee OB. Ball golf doesn't have a single hole with a required retee for landing in a hazard. There should be a drop zone across the road on that hole. He still could have taken a 7 with the drop zone but less likely.

That was punishing. Regardless, the way he handled that situation made an impression on me. He handled it with class and professionalism.

 

[emiller3]

Test 300/30 with your local course scorecard, and see how that theoretical pro does against your best scores. And we know that ANY of us are capable of throwing 300/30... it's just a matter of doing it accurately, over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

For me, whatever distance I can comfortably throw my Teebird (or whatever go-to slower driver you have) on its intended flight seems to be the distance at which I can hit any line with various discs in my bag. I throw my Teebird about 350' controlled...I can throw varying degrees of annies, turnovers, hyzers, s-shots, and overhands at this distance, and I can throw that far on a pretty steep incline as well. I consistently throw some lines into the 380-400' range on the course and occasionally over 400', but 350' seems to be the distance I can reach no matter what the line.

So I guess in my opinion you probably need about 350' of max D to fit into the 300/30 scenario. I also think you'll see greater improvement going from 20' to 30' in your putting than you will adding 50' of distance, but I've seen my scores drop 3-5 strokes on both long and short courses since I went from 300 to 350' of all around distance.

 

[erb]

I actually developed a personal stats system that was tested at a PDGA HQ event two years ago called PSTATS. It has all of the typical ball golf stats and more. However, we don't have the resources to implement a program and it hasn't gotten high enough priority yet to move forward.

I see, I guess one thing that is seems obvious to me comparing the PDGA to the top 5 or so sports, is the statistics part of the games. I don't know if you can say that recording Stats will propel us into one of the top 5, but it would certainly help us to be taken more serious in the eyes of non disc golf players and companies like ESPN. With more people seeing disc golf as a serious sport, that would intern help to make our size and resources grow. Kind of seems like, we need to grow to help us take stats, but also we need stats help us grow.

But the original post was about just getting to 1000 rating, not 1030

I was hopping to sound a little less strict than that. I would like to know what a 1000 rated would avg. in different parts of the game, along with what is sort of humanly capable with the 1030's. If I can practice towards 1000 then why stop there ya know?
I guess the way I see it what sort of divides a 1000 rated and Feldberg is consistence and the mental game. As far as skills I seem them sort of similar, with one having an advantage in on part while the there might have the advantage in another, and in the end both players even out. That's kind of the problem though, we don't have that kind of statistics or research available. So all we can do is debate.

 

[Trey1331]

I am just starting to play Advanced in the pdga and have recently started playing with David Wiggins Jr. a lot because we share the same home course.

Some of the things I'm noticing when we play our home course together.

1. Putting - its been said before, but pro's have amazing putting skill. For David, anything inside the 50 is almost a gimme with his spin putt. He has recently been working on a loft putt as well which is also stellar for anything inside 30.
2. Different Throws - we went out to play hornets nest in Charlotte, NC last week which really let me see his different shots. He can sidearm accurately up to 350, and play skips with his sidearm. He can backhand sky anhyzer's, pinpoint rollers, hyzer skips all with huge accuracy. His Thumber is getting very consistent.
3. Straight lines - Putter (Jk aviar) he can throw it 11 ft. off the ground for around 330 - 350ft. Midrange (1 Roc, 1 Cro) anywhere from 330 to 400ft. Fairway Driver (Teebird, eagle x, CE TL) all straight up to pushing 450 ft.
4. DISTANCE - David is huge on the distance chart, his golf distance is achieved with a small number of bosses.

Really the most impressive part of his game is his putter drives, quite possibly the most accurate and trustworthy part of his game.

I know he's only 984 rated, but... he's 13 and will be 1000 rated very shortly.

One other thing that is noticeable with his game came up in another post. I call it his "Gameface", where he can become very serious and focused on making every shot count. I thrive on playing relaxed, when David thrives on very competitive tense situations. Its like a switch too, he can turn it on and off... usually any time i'm beating him, that switch gets turned on very fast!!!

 

[erb]

What are midrange speculations of parking it into the circle? Or % of shots done with them? There hasn't been a lot of talk of them.

I also have noticed Cale throw a hyzer about any chance he gets.
I remember one hole a little short of 400' the pin was kind of on a plateau above the teebox so that you couldn't see it. We all took a fairway driver and threw straight at the pin. Then Cale threw a big semicircular hyzer flying out over the OB area. We all ended up about the same distance to the pin.

 

[black udder]

I believe throwing hyzer is seen as a higher percentage shot if you can do it accurately. No/little skip, you know where the disc is going. A flat throw might go a little anhyzer, a hyzer flip might not come up as expected. Hyzer only changes in distance depending on how you throw it.

What do you mean midrange speculations of parking it into the circle? Or % of shots done with them?

 

[black udder]

I am just starting to play Advanced in the pdga and have recently started playing with David Wiggins Jr. a lot because we share the same home course.

Some of the things I'm noticing when we play our home course together.

1. Putting - its been said before, but pro's have amazing putting skill. For David, anything inside the 50 is almost a gimme with his spin putt. He has recently been working on a loft putt as well which is also stellar for anything inside 30.
2. Different Throws - we went out to play hornets nest in Charlotte, NC last week which really let me see his different shots. He can sidearm accurately up to 350, and play skips with his sidearm. He can backhand sky anhyzer's, pinpoint rollers, hyzer skips all with huge accuracy. His Thumber is getting very consistent.
3. Straight lines - Putter (Jk aviar) he can throw it 11 ft. off the ground for around 330 - 350ft. Midrange (1 Roc, 1 Cro) anywhere from 330 to 400ft. Fairway Driver (Teebird, eagle x, CE TL) all straight up to pushing 450 ft.
4. DISTANCE - David is huge on the distance chart, his golf distance is achieved with a small number of bosses.

Really the most impressive part of his game is his putter drives, quite possibly the most accurate and trustworthy part of his game.

I know he's only 984 rated, but... he's 13 and will be 1000 rated very shortly.

One other thing that is noticeable with his game came up in another post. I call it his "Gameface", where he can become very serious and focused on making every shot count. I thrive on playing relaxed, when David thrives on very competitive tense situations. Its like a switch too, he can turn it on and off... usually any time i'm beating him, that switch gets turned on very fast!!!

Must be fun to play with somebody playing so well at an early age. One thing I've noticed about the better players in our area is the range of shots, just pull anything off *well*, not just hacking out of a bad lie.

 

[masterbeato]

my long term goal is to reach 1030 rating.

and i am very grateful to have so many people in my area supporting me, and know i can do it so i will do my best to do so not only for me, but for their kindness as well.

1000 rated player is mind over matter, you can get to 1000 rating at 380' power. but it has to be dead nuts on and push it out that far 9/10 times at least. but to get there and remain there for a very long period of time, you do need at least 410' so those 325' holes will be easy to reach.

 

[black udder]

my long term goal is to reach 1030 rating.

and i am very grateful to have so many people in my area supporting me, and know i can do it so i will do my best to do so not only for me, but for their kindness as well.

Not to mention all your devoted DGR fans who will volunteer to come kick you in the nutz if you slack off

 

[masterbeato]

my long term goal is to reach 1030 rating.

and i am very grateful to have so many people in my area supporting me, and know i can do it so i will do my best to do so not only for me, but for their kindness as well.

Not to mention all your devoted DGR fans who will volunteer to come kick you in the nutz if you slack off

LMAO!

ok no nut kicking.....now i have a new goal!

 

[erb]

I believe throwing hyzer is seen as a higher percentage shot if you can do it accurately. No/little skip, you know where the disc is going. A flat throw might go a little anhyzer, a hyzer flip might not come up as expected. Hyzer only changes in distance depending on how you throw it.

What do you mean midrange speculations of parking it into the circle? Or % of shots done with them?

Like, at what distance should you be able to park it into the circle nearly all the time in calm conditions on any type of shot. If they wanted to be at avg. for a 1000 rated. What is the % of throws for a round with mids on a course that has been used for a Major? (non pitch and putt course)……Things like, "How accurate and consistent should one be?" there's more to a throw than length. God I would love to see some sort of a graph where "distance vs. % parked in the circle" is plotted.
Info like this is so often left out of the discussion because it is way easier to tell things like the distance players are throwing. But that doesn't mean that it's any less important. Again this shows the need for recorded stats, but until then we have to debate/discuss.

 

[zj10021]

it would be awesome to one day see 4-5 or more names at the top of the disc golf ranks of guys that started out learning on these boards. i know if i ever made it that high i would pitch DGR every second i could