Johnson
Double Eagle Member
I own all three of these discs but haven't had much experience with the Sword and NONE with the Slaidi-I just got it. My question is would it make any sense to bag all three or is there too much overlap?
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
[Help] Slaidi vs. Trespass vs. Sword
- Thread starter Johnson
- Start date
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
Considering what the majority of Minnesota courses look like, I cover everything with an Echo Star Destroyer and VIP Sword. For everything else I can cover it with the plethora of fairway drivers I carry.
Johnson
Double Eagle Member
I'm pretty heavy on fairways. I think the Slaidi will be the most OS of the three, possibly leaving the other two in a dogfight for the stable slot.
Slaidi is far more overstable than the others. I've only thrown the Sword a couple of times, but I would think it and the Trespass would have a fair amount of overlap.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,039
I own all 3 as well.
Slaidi is PD2/Xcal-ish. Great sidearm disc! Holds itself nicely into a headwind.
Trespass is like a lightly beat Destroyer
Sword is like a beat Wraith.
The Sword and Trespass imo are overlap, their flights are not much different but I think the Trespass flies a touch faster with a lil more fade at the end.
Slaidi is PD2/Xcal-ish. Great sidearm disc! Holds itself nicely into a headwind.
Trespass is like a lightly beat Destroyer
Sword is like a beat Wraith.
The Sword and Trespass imo are overlap, their flights are not much different but I think the Trespass flies a touch faster with a lil more fade at the end.
pmorgan1214
Eagle Member
I have a tp sword and it is super stable. i throw it flat it will fly flat and then hyzer back. I find it fairly hard to flip the disc and throw it on an anny. I can but it definitely fights the anny and comes back. i took mine out of the bag due to i now carry terns and they just go further.
ern19
Newbie
I bag a heavy Lucid Trespass as my headwind distance driver. My beat TP Sword is my go-to off the tee. I think they're different enough to warrant bagging both. No experience with the Slaidi however.
Kodachrome
* Ace Member *
Slaidi is definitely more stable than the sword. Shouldn't be any overlap. Haven't thrown a trespass.
Ted Bratton
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,499
I find most trespasses to overlap heavily in speed and stability with most swords. Most of them are very long straight flyers when new and beat into understable drivers. It really depends on the specimen though because the weight, plastic, and especially wing height all tend to make a drastic difference.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
Everything depends on your power level and your throwing technique.
VIP Sword - Slightly longer and a tick less stable than a TeeBird. Almost no lateral movement, so I can trust it to throw flat at full power as well giving it hyzer knowing that it will not kill me.
Lucid Trespass - I hate the comparison to a worn Destroyer because you really needed to have a beaten in Destroyer to see the comparison. If the Trespass turns without flipping over, it will come back but you need to have enough momentum and height to give it chance. Trespasses are actually quite stable for the first month or so, but I found that the combination of becoming comfortable with it and just wearing in suddenly robs it of a lot of both high and low speed stability, meaning that when you get it to turn - intentional or not - that it will not come out of it. I also found that to reign it back in and get it fly the way it used to was to eliminated one step from my run-up. In fairness to the Trespass, even when I reduced a step from my run-up I lost no distance, making it feel like the easiest maximum distance I ever achieved.
So, for me in regards to how I throw and what I have seen written above, the best possible comparison of a Sword is a slightly longer seasoned TeeBird, not a Wraith which has a ton of lateral movement. A fresh Trespass can be comparable to a seasoned Destroyer, but even then I am leery of saying that because I only have one Champion Destroyer that is seasoned enough to even get a close to a comparable flight, and even then it has far more low speed stability.
For the disclaimer, keep in mind that for better or worse I can only throw for maximum distance on a flat plane. It is all about wrist explosion, of which I have unpredictable and often no snap from a hyzer orientation. In general I hate throwing anhyzers because of my preference to throw understable discs to begin with. I can throw a very controllable and repeatable 390-410 with my Swords and Destroyers. If I want lateral movement I go with my fairway drivers, in which due to their thinner rims I feel more comfortable with hyzers and anhyzers, and I throw those 360-390.
At the end of the day, the Trespass and Sword will have the same net results, but for me it requires a different throwing style and the fore-knowledge that they will have different lines in the air to get there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVzW9arIeY
I throw the Trespass at:
3:56 - Normal result
4:06 - Tried to correct it by giving it a little hyzer, this messed with my snap and give it a touch nose up
4:52 - Slight OAT and anhyzer release, ever so slight, but it never came back, crossing into 1's fairway
5:02 - Same result. It stays a loft because it is not completely flipping over, but it does not come back like a Destroyer
5:33 - Reduced power throw because of the grass tee, but still my best throw of the year. Shows that backing off the power brought it back under control.
7:30 - Reduced power because I was wearing my Focus while throwing. Before the camera loses it, you can see that it was turning a little. It did not come back, leaving me high on the right side of the fairway.
8:21 - I wish it had a little more fade. The Destroyer would have finished in the middle of the fairway.
10:11 - Way too much turn but still it goes a long way. Do you notice how long it hangs on to that turn (at least it does not flip and burn over) before it finally tries to fade?
10:57 - I tried backing off the power a little thinking it would reign it in. It ended too far left of my intended line considering how far right it been turning all day, but I liked the distance. Did you notice how much hyzer I had to give it?
11:30
13:25 - I notice that I am throwing with more hyzers to keep the Trespass under control. I hate throwing wide rimmed drivers with a hyzer because I do not feel like I am getting that wrist explosion. It does not feel natural.
15:50 - I have switched over to Swords. I missed my intended line by a few degrees, but you can see that I have considerably less lateral movement.
16:09 - Again, notice the lack of lateral movement throughout most of its flight.
16:29 - Underpowered Sword flight, still got it out to the short basket
22:52 - Way too much hyzer with the Sword. This is the type of hyzer I had to start throwing my Trespasses with to keep them under control.
VIP Sword - Slightly longer and a tick less stable than a TeeBird. Almost no lateral movement, so I can trust it to throw flat at full power as well giving it hyzer knowing that it will not kill me.
Lucid Trespass - I hate the comparison to a worn Destroyer because you really needed to have a beaten in Destroyer to see the comparison. If the Trespass turns without flipping over, it will come back but you need to have enough momentum and height to give it chance. Trespasses are actually quite stable for the first month or so, but I found that the combination of becoming comfortable with it and just wearing in suddenly robs it of a lot of both high and low speed stability, meaning that when you get it to turn - intentional or not - that it will not come out of it. I also found that to reign it back in and get it fly the way it used to was to eliminated one step from my run-up. In fairness to the Trespass, even when I reduced a step from my run-up I lost no distance, making it feel like the easiest maximum distance I ever achieved.
So, for me in regards to how I throw and what I have seen written above, the best possible comparison of a Sword is a slightly longer seasoned TeeBird, not a Wraith which has a ton of lateral movement. A fresh Trespass can be comparable to a seasoned Destroyer, but even then I am leery of saying that because I only have one Champion Destroyer that is seasoned enough to even get a close to a comparable flight, and even then it has far more low speed stability.
For the disclaimer, keep in mind that for better or worse I can only throw for maximum distance on a flat plane. It is all about wrist explosion, of which I have unpredictable and often no snap from a hyzer orientation. In general I hate throwing anhyzers because of my preference to throw understable discs to begin with. I can throw a very controllable and repeatable 390-410 with my Swords and Destroyers. If I want lateral movement I go with my fairway drivers, in which due to their thinner rims I feel more comfortable with hyzers and anhyzers, and I throw those 360-390.
At the end of the day, the Trespass and Sword will have the same net results, but for me it requires a different throwing style and the fore-knowledge that they will have different lines in the air to get there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVzW9arIeY
I throw the Trespass at:
3:56 - Normal result
4:06 - Tried to correct it by giving it a little hyzer, this messed with my snap and give it a touch nose up
4:52 - Slight OAT and anhyzer release, ever so slight, but it never came back, crossing into 1's fairway
5:02 - Same result. It stays a loft because it is not completely flipping over, but it does not come back like a Destroyer
5:33 - Reduced power throw because of the grass tee, but still my best throw of the year. Shows that backing off the power brought it back under control.
7:30 - Reduced power because I was wearing my Focus while throwing. Before the camera loses it, you can see that it was turning a little. It did not come back, leaving me high on the right side of the fairway.
8:21 - I wish it had a little more fade. The Destroyer would have finished in the middle of the fairway.
10:11 - Way too much turn but still it goes a long way. Do you notice how long it hangs on to that turn (at least it does not flip and burn over) before it finally tries to fade?
10:57 - I tried backing off the power a little thinking it would reign it in. It ended too far left of my intended line considering how far right it been turning all day, but I liked the distance. Did you notice how much hyzer I had to give it?
11:30
13:25 - I notice that I am throwing with more hyzers to keep the Trespass under control. I hate throwing wide rimmed drivers with a hyzer because I do not feel like I am getting that wrist explosion. It does not feel natural.
15:50 - I have switched over to Swords. I missed my intended line by a few degrees, but you can see that I have considerably less lateral movement.
16:09 - Again, notice the lack of lateral movement throughout most of its flight.
16:29 - Underpowered Sword flight, still got it out to the short basket
22:52 - Way too much hyzer with the Sword. This is the type of hyzer I had to start throwing my Trespasses with to keep them under control.
Ted Bratton
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,499
I disagree smarkquart. I find the flight numbers of both discs, as most are, to be complete bullsht. I found the sword to have extremely similar speed and lateral movement to a trespass. They are both slower than destroyers but they bomb because they are not very overstable. When they beat in they can be thrown with some hyzer and turn all the way over depending on the speed of your throw and other variables. If I had to choose which mold might tend to be a little less overstable it would be the sword. I would assign my own flight numbers but frankly I think flight numbers are trash.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
I trust very few flight numbers once they exceed Speed 10. As for disagreeing with me, if anything that proves that once you hit a certain speed, the variances in our throwing technique are going to create drastically different results. While I think I need better cameramen to film me so you can clearly see the discs' whole flight every time, my film does speak for itself; for me the Sword was far more high speed stable than my Trespasses.
I have been trying out the trespass against my stack of swords. I have been surprised on power shots with how much high speed turn my trespass (172 Bio) has. Alot of it is probably bad form when I try to crank it.
Have been looking for something that will come out of a bit of anny more than the sword, which tends to hold the slight anny release to well sometimes. Got some fresh AJ Star Destroyers around 172 grams and they are kind of hard to keep from hyzering out for me, especially when compared to a sword or trespass. I usually like to dial the power back a bit on max d so I don't destroy my old thrity something bod. Not sure if the destroyers will work for me once seasoned. It's one of the great molds I have not spent much time with.
The 172 Bio Trespass I got is not the ticket for coming out of a bit of wrist roll/unintentional slight anny/OAT/???. However I did get a couple just ridiculously long throws for the power I put into it (easily crushing 400 with like 80% power). It does seem to like a smoother slightly powered down throw for me. Mine was very easy to put on a high hyzer bomb line fresh out of the box (with minimal sand paper deflashing). It has performed some beautiful flat/slight hyzer release s-curves as well.
Overall my trespass seems to hold the turn even more than my average sword (172-174g. opto). I would like to find something that fights more than a sword/trespass but maybe less beefy than these new aj destroyers. Should I just keep beating the destroyers? I have already tried nukes, wraiths, surges and forces and looking for something other than these, though all were nice molds. Also something like destroyer rim width, not wider.
Have been looking for something that will come out of a bit of anny more than the sword, which tends to hold the slight anny release to well sometimes. Got some fresh AJ Star Destroyers around 172 grams and they are kind of hard to keep from hyzering out for me, especially when compared to a sword or trespass. I usually like to dial the power back a bit on max d so I don't destroy my old thrity something bod. Not sure if the destroyers will work for me once seasoned. It's one of the great molds I have not spent much time with.
The 172 Bio Trespass I got is not the ticket for coming out of a bit of wrist roll/unintentional slight anny/OAT/???. However I did get a couple just ridiculously long throws for the power I put into it (easily crushing 400 with like 80% power). It does seem to like a smoother slightly powered down throw for me. Mine was very easy to put on a high hyzer bomb line fresh out of the box (with minimal sand paper deflashing). It has performed some beautiful flat/slight hyzer release s-curves as well.
Overall my trespass seems to hold the turn even more than my average sword (172-174g. opto). I would like to find something that fights more than a sword/trespass but maybe less beefy than these new aj destroyers. Should I just keep beating the destroyers? I have already tried nukes, wraiths, surges and forces and looking for something other than these, though all were nice molds. Also something like destroyer rim width, not wider.
Johnson
Double Eagle Member
Well it sounds like the Slaidi is a tick more overstable than the Sword/Trespass so I guess this is more of a Trespass vs. Sword question.
There is no "tick" about it. The Slaidi is drastically more overstable than the Trespass or Sword.
Pleasethrowplastic
Newbie
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2013
- Messages
- 15
If someone is stuck in that 325-350 range on their drives, a TP Sword, in my opinion, will help you achieve another 40-50 ft once you learn it (which doesn't take long). The trespass will do the same thing if you're stuck in the 350-375 range. I lived both of these experiences over the past 3-4 months.....of course there are other discs that would do similar hints but you asked about these. Also, a VIP Sword makes a nice more stable distance driver
