Strength/Hypertrophy Training and Disc Golf Performance

SaROCaM

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From another thread:

Slightly off topic, but a few years ago I started lifting and got into crosssfit. Im in amazing shape and have gotten a lot stronger and faster. For disc golf, my distance has gone down about 100' but my rating has gone up maybe 30 points. This is just something I find interesting. I also have another disc golf friend that has gotten into power lifting the past few years and he has bulked up immensely and his distance has also gone down and his rating has gone up.

This is something of interest to me as well. A little personal background: I used to compete/participate in various running events, from 400m to half marathon, but mostly the 5k distance. I weighed ~135 lbs for most of this.

Eventually I got into the iron game and started lifting as my primary physical activity. Training was mostly for strength with a focus on powerlifting, but of course some hypertrophy, and some strongman-type of training with implements such as farmers handles, kegs, etc.

I now weigh ~200lbs, with pants waist size going from a loose 30 to a tight 32 inches, so a good deal of muscle gain.

Can this kind of change can affect disc golf performance, especially if in a shorter time period? Powerlifters talk about how weight loss/gain can change leverages and result in making adjustments in technique. With throwing a disc being an exercise in leverage/technique/timing is it the case that a change in strength and body composition can throw off the timing that the body is accustomed to during the throw? Is there simply an adjustment period needed to re-learn technique?

I read about feeling the weight of the disc, and feeling that "heavy disc" feeling. When someone is used to handling hundreds of pounds in hand, like in a heavy deadlift or in a farmers carry, does that diminish the ability to feel the weight of the disc as discussed in the form and technique threads? Personally I have to work really hard/with great intent to feel the weight of the disc. Drills clicked better for me when they involved throwing/swinging sledgehammers and bricks to feel bracing and such. Side note: I can't help but laugh a little when people get hung up over a couple grams of disc weight. I know it can make a difference but it seems so miniscule in relation.

Watching the video of Thor playing disc golf, I wonder what that must be like... imagining the feeling of throwing the lid of a yogurt container.
 
I may be completly wrong but don´t the Type I muscle fibers vs Type II have something to do with this?
 
I lost over a 100 pounds since I started Disc golf and I am only now getting my distance back.
I was a former gym rat that had layers of fat on top of my muscles. Even now that I have been at a stable weight for a year, my muscles are getting leaner, more ripped and the belly of the muscles are moving away from the ends of their levers.

To a certain degree, yes, muscle type is determined by genetics. The genetics come into play as how much of each type of fiber one starts life with. How we train does determine what type of fibers get the most benefit from the training. The energy delivery methods also are affected by how we train.

More fast twitch muscle percentage, more ADP production and a lean body mass is going to get the most power for one frame. We are stuck with how our frame develops in puberty, nothing we can do there.

My method that I am building power with now is using kettlebells and clubs as my main form of strength training with intermittent heavy dumbbell work.

Sorry for the ling wall of rambling text, in a hurry to finish it, if I had more time, it would have been shorter and cleaner.
 
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From another thread:



This is something of interest to me as well. A little personal background: I used to compete/participate in various running events, from 400m to half marathon, but mostly the 5k distance. I weighed ~135 lbs for most of this.

Eventually I got into the iron game and started lifting as my primary physical activity. Training was mostly for strength with a focus on powerlifting, but of course some hypertrophy, and some strongman-type of training with implements such as farmers handles, kegs, etc.

I now weigh ~200lbs, with pants waist size going from a loose 30 to a tight 32 inches, so a good deal of muscle gain.

Can this kind of change can affect disc golf performance, especially if in a shorter time period? Powerlifters talk about how weight loss/gain can change leverages and result in making adjustments in technique. With throwing a disc being an exercise in leverage/technique/timing is it the case that a change in strength and body composition can throw off the timing that the body is accustomed to during the throw? Is there simply an adjustment period needed to re-learn technique?
I don't know about the other part about how the disc feels in the hand, but the part above I quoted...

You sound like a carbon copy of my little brother. He learned to disc golf when he was 15, he shot his first 980s round when he was 16. At the time he was a 5'11/135 lb runner. He was getting mid-400s, and right at 400 with seasoned champ firebirds - lot of power but not the cleanest release at the point he kinda lost interest and stopped playing by the time he was 18. Since then, up until last fall, he'd played maybe a dozen rounds in the past dozen years.

He came back to town for a week (military career) - now weighing in in the mid-190s without an ounce of fat on him - and he played some rounds while he was in town. I started out the round by handing him an Enforcer, a Criminal, and a mid/putter. By the time we got to the 4th hole, a 750+ foot open par 4, he'd got the Enforcer down. I watched him just crunch it dead level, little height, turns slightly and is just starting to try to finish when it catches the edge of some trees at 460 about 15' up. The rest of the round kinda went like that. I texted Evan Hughes, a Columbus borderline-open-player and his friend since long before they got into disc golf and whom he'd golfed with earlier in the week and asked him how it'd gone and he brought up the same thing - he was crushing.

From that personal observation - I'd say that it just depends on how your muscle mass is packed on. If you're focusing on a well rounded build - Matt plays a ton of pickup basketball and so even though he powerlifts he tries to maintain a build for that - I think that you can get the best of both worlds.

(It also helps that he's got a 6'4-5 wingspan and his knuckles drag when he walks, that could play into the way he's maintained it, but he's definitely gained explosive athleticism with his build)
 
My personal experience when it comes to disc golf is that muscle mass is bad. Any time I hit the gym for weight training I leave a worse disc golfer. But do a schedule of plyo and yoga, instant disc golf gains. Plyo connects you to the ground so well and allows you to really feel the kinetic chain work up from your legs.

The absolute WORST activity (imo) for disc golf is wrestling/grappling/jitz. The tendon strength developed in those is static and is counter to propelling a projectile. The guys that compete in jitz tournaments are some of the most rock solid powerful people I know, even without massive muscle mass, but that farmer strength just doesn't cross over to throwing a disc.

An underrated training medium for disc golf is boxing. Heavy bag work is wonderful for putting footwork. Try 30 minutes on a heavy bag and go practice putt afterwards; you feel so insanely rock solid in your putting stance the confidence is amazing. To me a putt feels exactly like sitting down on a stiff jab. Shadowboxing is great for developing proper weight shift and balance for driving. It is almost like overspeed training.

Inb4 "but XYZ local legend nobody has heard of deadlifts 450 and is a BB jitz player"
 
From that personal observation - I'd say that it just depends on how your muscle mass is packed on. If you're focusing on a well rounded build - Matt plays a ton of pickup basketball and so even though he powerlifts he tries to maintain a build for that - I think that you can get the best of both worlds.

(It also helps that he's got a 6'4-5 wingspan and his knuckles drag when he walks, that could play into the way he's maintained it, but he's definitely gained explosive athleticism with his build)

I'm probably not as well-rounded; I'm more built for powerlifting than the overall athleticism needed to play basketball. Also I am not as tall - 5'7" with a 70-inch wingspan, can barely palm a basketball. I'm thinking that improving overall athleticism would help me - more jumping, sprinting, agility work.

My personal experience when it comes to disc golf is that muscle mass is bad. Any time I hit the gym for weight training I leave a worse disc golfer. But do a schedule of plyo and yoga, instant disc golf gains. Plyo connects you to the ground so well and allows you to really feel the kinetic chain work up from your legs.

The absolute WORST activity (imo) for disc golf is wrestling/grappling/jitz. The tendon strength developed in those is static and is counter to propelling a projectile. The guys that compete in jitz tournaments are some of the most rock solid powerful people I know, even without massive muscle mass, but that farmer strength just doesn't cross over to throwing a disc.

An underrated training medium for disc golf is boxing. Heavy bag work is wonderful for putting footwork. Try 30 minutes on a heavy bag and go practice putt afterwards; you feel so insanely rock solid in your putting stance the confidence is amazing. To me a putt feels exactly like sitting down on a stiff jab. Shadowboxing is great for developing proper weight shift and balance for driving. It is almost like overspeed training.

I boxed at 168lbs. Agree that there is some good carryover there.

Plyos are on the table as part of the effort to increase athleticism. Yoga also as part of recovery and mobility.

One thing that I find challenging is that I have incorporated a lot of anti-rotational movements into my training (pallof press and variations, etc.) for core stability. Then when I go play disc golf, it can be difficult to get loosened up to rotate and throw. Not sure if those are actually at odds with each other or if it is in my head. Feels like my movement is somewhat limited, like I am good at being stable but bad at being nimble.
 
One thing that I find challenging is that I have incorporated a lot of anti-rotational movements into my training (pallof press and variations, etc.) for core stability. Then when I go play disc golf, it can be difficult to get loosened up to rotate and throw. Not sure if those are actually at odds with each other or if it is in my head. Feels like my movement is somewhat limited, like I am good at being stable but bad at being nimble.
Yeah, that pallof press does not look like it'd result in great disc distance outcomes. I haven't done them before but they appear to force you to engage the bottom of your core in a very static hold. I see what you mean by core stability - there's definitely some being developed - but I feel like a more rotational resistance exercise that allows movement through the hips would still build core stability without sacrificing the dynamic movement. The muscles are going to develop to compensate for the actions it anticipates needing to perform. I could see them as beneficial in supporting a more dynamic movement, but if that is an example of how you do most of your core stability work it doesn't look productive for disc.
 
Yeah, that pallof press does not look like it'd result in great disc distance outcomes. I haven't done them before but they appear to force you to engage the bottom of your core in a very static hold. I see what you mean by core stability - there's definitely some being developed - but I feel like a more rotational resistance exercise that allows movement through the hips would still build core stability without sacrificing the dynamic movement. The muscles are going to develop to compensate for the actions it anticipates needing to perform. I could see them as beneficial in supporting a more dynamic movement, but if that is an example of how you do most of your core stability work it doesn't look productive for disc.

Yeah it definitely helps for stability for something like a squat or deadlift where you don't want rotation, but not so much for disc golf. I would imagine a more applicable exercise would be something like hitting tires/stuff with a sledgehammer, or rotational movements with a landmine apparatus or cable station.

Most of my core work is incidental, like from front squats, or carrying kegs/sandbags/stones/farmers handles. The only things I really do that are core specific are pallofs, ab wheel/barbell rollouts, dragon flags, 45-degree hyperextensions.
 
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I'm sure it helps, but most of us would see faster and greater results with refining form.
 
I knew a tennis guy once that said he did hundreds of wall-balls as his strength training. If I remember correctly he was using a 35lb medicine ball. Seems like this would be an excellent disc golf power building exercise, anyone do extensive wall-balls?
 
I knew a tennis guy once that said he did hundreds of wall-balls as his strength training. If I remember correctly he was using a 35lb medicine ball. Seems like this would be an excellent disc golf power building exercise, anyone do extensive wall-balls?

Insert me as the crossfitter. 20lb wallball is the male standard for crossfit and I have them programmed about once a week. Since Im tall they are easier for me but they do a good job at lighting up your quads and giving you a good cardio response. I could see this being beneficial for a tennis player (I was a state level tennis player in high school) for anything hit overhead. Though I couldnt say how well the wallball translates to disc golf other then giving you a workout.
 
Insert me as the crossfitter. 20lb wallball is the male standard for crossfit and I have them programmed about once a week. Since Im tall they are easier for me but they do a good job at lighting up your quads and giving you a good cardio response. I could see this being beneficial for a tennis player (I was a state level tennis player in high school) for anything hit overhead. Though I couldnt say how well the wallball translates to disc golf other then giving you a workout.

I had to look up crossfit style wallballs and I can see what you are saying. I was talking about side wallballs like baseball players do. Seems like these would directly translate to a forehand, while for backhand it would require a handle to pull or a concentrated effort to activate the leading edge of the core.

 
I knew a tennis guy once that said he did hundreds of wall-balls as his strength training. If I remember correctly he was using a 35lb medicine ball. Seems like this would be an excellent disc golf power building exercise, anyone do extensive wall-balls?

I did for a while. They did help, I think by mostly strengthening my core. I did not see as big gains with wall ball as I did with heavy Russian Kettlebell swings.

The ball I was using was only 12 pounds (heaviest my gym has) whilst the Kettlebell is 56 pounds, that might be the difference.
 
I did for a while. They did help, I think by mostly strengthening my core. I did not see as big gains with wall ball as I did with heavy Russian Kettlebell swings.

The ball I was using was only 12 pounds (heaviest my gym has) whilst the Kettlebell is 56 pounds, that might be the difference.

See I also use a kettlebell (same size) and I get pretty much zero disc golf carry over. I do swings, clean jerk, and snatch. Nothing. :(
 
Distance is not primarily about strength. Why are most of the long distance throwing pros tall and lanky? They are more flexible and able to build up more potential energy/torque and have longer to accelerate. You obviously need to have some strength, but focus to improve would be addressing core strength and ballistic training (speed/acceleration). If you are getting muscle bound by increasing muscle mass you will generally decrease in flexibility. Just the thoughts off the top of my head.
 
"When you go from 212 pounds to 190, there's not as much weight going forward through the ball," Koepka said last month. "I don't have as much feel. I just feel out of sorts."
https://nypost.com/2019/04/10/brooks-koepka-gets-espn-body-shamed-reckless-self-sabotage/


Interesting. In that long drive group there is a 6'6" former basketball player, a former College World Series pitcher, and a former national-level sprinter. Some explosive athletes for sure.

With Koepka losing weight, I wonder how much strength loss there was. Would it matter if there was some time to adjust to the lighter weight? Or was performance more optimal at the higher weight?
 
"The term 'muscle-bound' has long been associated with athletes and individuals that have developed large muscle mass through strength training, but in so doing have significantly reduced their ability to move freely through a full range of motion. This is certainly the case for many people in sports and fitness, and yet, we need only look at gymnasts, Olympic Weightlifters and elite CrossFitters to know that the opposite is true as well. These athletes compete in sports where an imbalance between these two fitness skills would limit their progress and impair their success—and the same applies to you."
https://boxlifemagazine.com/how-flexibility-affects-strength-vice-versa/
 
Dan John holds the American Weight Pentathlon record. He is over 50 now and look at how much muscle he still has..
5210_114583264244_785904244_3036152_958846_n.jpg


Throwing anything is a power sport, it's just that the light objects we throw encourage a good power to weight ratio.
 
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