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Struggles from a Tournament Director

Why are you assuming that when disc golfers travel to a tournament they don't stay in a hotel? In my experience most communities get more than $2000 in direct spending from out of town disc golfers during A tiers and some disc golfers do indeed stay in hotels. Even if a disc golfer stays in a campground most visitors bureaus consider that a head in bed because you usually have to pay to stay in a campground.

A lot of people have no problem driving 3 hours each way for a tournament without staying the night. I do this quite a bit throughout the year.

A lot of people who are planning to spend the night will actually find local players to stay with to save on the lodging costs.

Hotels often are a last resort. And even then, players will try to group up in one room to save money.

Disc golfers are a stingy bunch.
 
A lot of people have no problem driving 3 hours each way for a tournament without staying the night.
are you talking about one dayers? 3 hours is a stretch for a 2 day event. my limit is an hour and half. anything over and i am staying the night. I aggree with everyhting else you posted but i don't know many people that will drive 3 hours each way and not stay the night.
 
are you talking about one dayers? 3 hours is a stretch for a 2 day event. my limit is an hour and half. anything over and i am staying the night. I aggree with everyhting else you posted but i don't know many people that will drive 3 hours each way and not stay the night.

Yeah, I was thinking of one day tournaments. You'll see more overnighters for two-day events.
 
A lot of people have no problem driving 3 hours each way for a tournament without staying the night. I do this quite a bit throughout the year.

A lot of people who are planning to spend the night will actually find local players to stay with to save on the lodging costs.

Hotels often are a last resort. And even then, players will try to group up in one room to save money.

Disc golfers are a stingy bunch.

Three hours each way for a multi-day event? I doubt that. For one day events, sure, but it's the multi-day events that I think the tourism board would be wanting to support in terms of what they might bring to town in tourist-derived income.

You're absolutely right about disc golfers generally being a stingy bunch, though. I admit I'm one of them. I'll spring for a hotel once in a while for the right tournament, but most of the ones I travel overnight for these days are ones where I know I have a cheap or free place to crash.
 
It is all relative.

Why do anything other than have a local league with 2 rounds in the day? More competition, push locals, see others who may do things better.

Okay so have a tournament. Do you just want to attract the best players within an easy 2 hour drive for a 1 day event? No, we have a marquee course with multiple layouts and want to attract strong competition.

We'd like our course to get national recognition. We think that our regional pro's can rack and stack okay with the big boys. We can get a little local media attention. This creates a positive cyle to make the course bigger and better. More design challenges get scoped in for the future.

Yes, there is a cost, but certainly for the right type of course there are certainly benefits as well
 
In an effort not to come off as an ass here, I have never run a disc golf tourney. But I have put on quite a few sanctioned bowling tourneys, as well as larger grass roots, unsanctioned downhill mountain bike races. But it seems to me like the TD's are wanting to always get something out of running a tourney in disc golf. I have never started work on a bowling tourney expecting to get something out of it for myself. Ive actually spent a lot of my money putting on mountain bike races. In bowling to sanction a tournament you have to deal with two governing bodies (local sanctioning body and the pba) plus you have to pay to be using a bowling center.

From what I have seen in my limited time in disc golf that has been a problem for me.

Am's expecting to get something for playing. I play in advanced and I think its stupid that there is a payout to anything other than open. I dont even like a players pack, because that is taking away from the people who are really trying to make money. If you want to get something back, practice more and play in open.

Td's wanting to cater to the few who are a problem or loud mouthed about everything. Do what is right and what follows the rules. If someone doesnt like that, then they can go play somewhere else.

And then finally TD's really looking for credit for what they are doing. Yes thank you for putting on a tourney. But this is disc golf not ball golf. We are very much a minority. If you think you are the end all be all of disc because you choose to put on a tourney, then you need to take a step back and realize that outside of the course, nobody knows who you are.

If everyone just had some tact and class, and wasnt so entitled then our sport would be much better off.
 
And then finally TD's really looking for credit for what they are doing. Yes thank you for putting on a tourney. But this is disc golf not ball golf. We are very much a minority. If you think you are the end all be all of disc because you choose to put on a tourney, then you need to take a step back and realize that outside of the course, nobody knows who you are.

I disagree with this part. Nearly every TD that I've met is in it for the love of the game. I don't know that I've ever seen a TD just putting on events for his own personal gain.
 
It is all relative.

Why do anything other than have a local league with 2 rounds in the day? More competition, push locals, see others who may do things better.

Okay so have a tournament. Do you just want to attract the best players within an easy 2 hour drive for a 1 day event? No, we have a marquee course with multiple layouts and want to attract strong competition.

We'd like our course to get national recognition. We think that our regional pro's can rack and stack okay with the big boys. We can get a little local media attention. This creates a positive cyle to make the course bigger and better. More design challenges get scoped in for the future.

Yes, there is a cost, but certainly for the right type of course there are certainly benefits as well

^^ This... this is why I do it. I love this sport and we have great area courses. I wanna bring in talent and treat them well. In return, I get nothing but pure satisfaction from the many thank yous. I get some snarky looks, but the thank yous overwhelmingly outweigh the negative stuff.
 
In an effort not to come off as an ass here, I have never run a disc golf tourney. But I have put on quite a few sanctioned bowling tourneys, as well as larger grass roots, unsanctioned downhill mountain bike races. But it seems to me like the TD's are wanting to always get something out of running a tourney in disc golf. I have never started work on a bowling tourney expecting to get something out of it for myself. Ive actually spent a lot of my money putting on mountain bike races. In bowling to sanction a tournament you have to deal with two governing bodies (local sanctioning body and the pba) plus you have to pay to be using a bowling center.

From what I have seen in my limited time in disc golf that has been a problem for me.

Am's expecting to get something for playing. I play in advanced and I think its stupid that there is a payout to anything other than open. I dont even like a players pack, because that is taking away from the people who are really trying to make money. If you want to get something back, practice more and play in open.

Td's wanting to cater to the few who are a problem or loud mouthed about everything. Do what is right and what follows the rules. If someone doesnt like that, then they can go play somewhere else.

And then finally TD's really looking for credit for what they are doing. Yes thank you for putting on a tourney. But this is disc golf not ball golf. We are very much a minority. If you think you are the end all be all of disc because you choose to put on a tourney, then you need to take a step back and realize that outside of the course, nobody knows who you are.

If everyone just had some tact and class, and wasnt so entitled then our sport would be much better off.

I tend to agree with this....only because I've directed many, many chess tournaments and know that directing tournaments is a labor of love. You do it because you enjoy it, not because you're expecting anything in return.

In chess though there aren't any "player's packs" that come with the entry fee. Like, ever. You paid your entry fee (usually anywhere between $20-$30) to compete for prizes within your class. If you didn't win, too bad. But your games were rated and you got some competition out of it, so win-win.

But....

You had to be a member of the U.S. Chess Federation to play in that "sanctioned" event and to have your games rated. And then you might've also had to be a member of a state association (or purchase a membership) to play, on top of the entry fee you paid to sit across the board from your opponent. With USCF memberships at $40/year and state associations varying between $10-$30/year, and the average entry fee being what it is, the standard, run-of-the-mill player is shelling out well over $200/year if they play in three tournaments a year. And that number doesn't even figure in the cost of travel and lodging & food expenses. The point is disc golf is dirt cheap by comparison.

People are going to complain no matter what the cost or what you give them. That's a given. In this day and age of entitlement, you could give somebody a million bucks and they'd complain because they had to pay taxes on it. I think disc golf suffers from the same malaise that chess does but for different reasons. Both have stigmas attached to them (but DG less than chess) and both have few followers (per capita) and even less advertisement.

We need players.

How do we get them? DG is really expanding (at least so far as I can see). Have tournaments contributed to that expansion? If so -- other than competition -- what drives people people to play in them? What additions to the formats (tier variations, more prizes/packs, etc.) would make them more attractive to players? And most importantly, what's the incentive for the budding TD to take up the mantle and offer to run it for our motley group of woodland throwers? Are there enough TDs or does the sport need more?

These are the questions that kept me out of the really good schools....
 
And then finally TD's really looking for credit for what they are doing. Yes thank you for putting on a tourney. But this is disc golf not ball golf. We are very much a minority. If you think you are the end all be all of disc because you choose to put on a tourney, then you need to take a step back and realize that outside of the course, nobody knows who you are.

I have a major issue with this part of your post. Our TDs are volunteers who put in a ton of time (and often some of their own money) to put on events for us. If we take that for granted we're going to drive away even more great TDs than we already have. You're right, this is disc golf not ball golf, which means we have a limited pool from which to pull those hard working volunteers. If all they're asking for is courtesy and a friendly thank you, is that really too much to ask?
 
i can only say that the events i've td'ed have been charity events that were advertised as a very minimal (pretty much 0) payout but still managed to draw a great crowd. from what i've seen at other events though is that a catch 22 happens, td's don't want to put on an event that has a crappy attendance, and most ams don't want to play in an event where they come away with nothing. you can argue until you're blue in the face about who to point the finger at for the current am tournament structure and how other am sports aren't the same, but for a td who probably isn't getting enough credit for their work already they're sticking their neck out by going with a trophy only format.

i didn't attend am worlds this year, but i give props for dd for trying to get the ball rolling in that direction. i don't know if giving out a large players pack essentially as an attendance prize is the right answer, but maybe if enough of the larger tournaments start focusing on trophy only it'll start to trickle down to smaller local events.
 
I was able to get $10,000 from our park dep. for our new course partly because we run an A-Tier. They know the significance of having a larger tourney in town. They love the fact people from all over the country come into town for 3 days and spend their money on hotels, gas, food, etc... That money got us Mach V's and money left over for bridges. Hoping to get a NT in 2015.
 
...you can argue until you're blue in the face about who to point the finger at for the current am tournament structure and how other am sports aren't the same, but for a td who probably isn't getting enough credit for their work already they're sticking their neck out by going with a trophy only format.

But what other sport(s) with an amateur tournament format isn't struggling? I can't think of a single one.

As someone stated earlier, TDs in every sport do what they do largely as a labor of love of the game and their desire to see others enjoy it as much as they do. Especially C-tier type events hosted all over the country every weekend. Sure, there are a few major organizers who do it as a full-time business (Bill Goichberg ran some huge chess tournaments back when I was playing), but he was the exception that proved the rule that only a very small percentage of TDs ever cash in on the time and effort they put into organized amateur games.

You're right, though. TDs don't get enough credit for what they do. The question is why, then, do they continue doing it? Having been in their shoes I think the answer is simple: They just enjoy the players and want to promote the game. Trying to psychoanalyze why people do what they do is an exercise in futility. It's like trying to figure out why Jared Lee Loughner shot Gabrielle Giffords or why Michael Jackson kept getting plastic surgery.
 
I was able to get $10,000 from our park dep. for our new course partly because we run an A-Tier. They know the significance of having a larger tourney in town. They love the fact people from all over the country come into town for 3 days and spend their money on hotels, gas, food, etc... That money got us Mach V's and money left over for bridges. Hoping to get a NT in 2015.

Megiddo.....I don't know how involved you were in the process of getting that $10K for the new course, but I'm curious as to the process y'all went through prior to presenting it to your Parks Department.

The reason I ask is because we only have three courses here in Wilmington, but many more parks. My daughter plays tennis at two different parks (neither of which have a DG course, dammit) and every time I take her to practice I end up looking around talking to myself saying, "Dang....that would be a great spot for a basket. Could put the tee box right there and then set up for the next hole there, shoot over the creek to a perfect spot for another basket there...." (Hope I'm not the only one who does this sort of landscaping/course design at a park without a course.)

Anyway, I'd love to know what the best steps would be to start the process of maybe getting another course around town. If you have any info on it I'd love to hear.
 
I know of a parks department that just finished a course installation, and contacted the PDGA about their interest in running a B-tier there, maybe an A-tier in the future. They were referred to the local club in their area to coordinate it.

I'd agree with the skeptics that there's not a great deal of tourist value, though it varies from place to place. But there are still parks departments and communities who'll invest, either because they overestimate the effect, or consider that effect worth their effort.
 
The question is why, then, do they continue doing it? Having been in their shoes I think the answer is simple: They just enjoy the players and want to promote the game. Trying to psychoanalyze why people do what they do is an exercise in futility. It's like trying to figure out why Jared Lee Loughner shot Gabrielle Giffords or why Michael Jackson kept getting plastic surgery.

In other words, they're crazy.
 
In other words, they're crazy.

LOL....Make work for yourself in order to entertain and line the pockets of people who play the game you love when you can't join them or benefit from the money you're collecting to accomplish it all?

I suppose you'd have to be! ;)
 
In other words, they're crazy.

LOL....Make work for yourself in order to entertain and line the pockets of people who play the game you love when you can't join them or benefit from the money you're collecting to accomplish it all?

I suppose you'd have to be! ;)

i joined Emac & Bobby Brown on their podcast to talk about TDing and such. It's a labor of love...i truly enjoy promoting that sport...so im backing off the sanctioned events next year (read: not as many) and doing more clinic/non-serious disc golf outings
 
My answer to the first question is that it's a lot like throwing a party. Why does anyone throw a party? Why not just attend parties at other people's homes? But once we've decided to throw a party, we want as many people to come as possible. The more, the merrier.

...and then your party gets huge, everybody knows about it. Some good looking stacked dude from 3 towns over shows up, drinks all your booze, loads your wife and daughter into his shaggin' wagon and leaves.
 

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