Terms from Golf that Maybe Shouldn't Be?

[iacas]

Coming from golf (with the sleeves of balls that cost about as much as a single disc, but which are lost FAR more frequently and tend to curve to the right for most righties a LOT more often! ), I'm discovering that a LOT of the terms in DG are just taken right from golf itself.

Sometimes these terms seem to be taken without any real consideration for what they are.

For example:

Tap-in - Shouldn't this be called a "flip-in" or a "drop-in" or something? You're not "tapping" anything in.

Fairway - Really? How about calling it the "Route" or the "Path" or something like that? Often it's indistinguishable from the surrounding area except that it's slightly less full of trees. You could say you're "off path" or "off route" rather than "off the fairway" or "in the rough."

Green - There's no clearly defined area as with golf. Why not call it "the Circle" since the rules call for a 10m circle?

Hole - There's no hole. Why do we call it the fifth hole? Why not the "fifth basket" or the "fifth route" or something?

Stroke - It's a throw. Even a "shot" is okay. No strokes.

Oddly, I'm okay with calling some discs "Drivers" and others "Putters." And I'm even more okay with calling others Mid-Range or "Approach" discs.

So my goal with this thread is not to bash DG one little bit. Not at all. I think the above is cute. I might not use those terms, but I don't have a problem with anyone who does.

I'm just surprised that some DGers didn't come up with their own terms, that they borrowed SO heavily from golf, even when the terms didn't necessarily make the most sense.

That said, too, lots of them are okay. Tee is fine, as is par. Penalty, out of bounds (not really used the same - internal OB is frowned upon in golf - but that's okay).

What terms can you think of that I might have forgotten that come from golf but might not make sense? What word(s) would you use instead?

P.S. I realize these terms probably aren't changing. I just find this "borrowing" of phrases curious.

 

[Osmo]

Tap-in - I use when referring to when a Putt is so close you literally can "tap" the chains.

Fairway - You are being to narrow minded using only a ball golf definition. Fairway simply refers to the cleanest area/path.

Green - In nice well kept courses they do try to have a true "green" and keep the area around the basket nice.

Hole - A Basket can be seen as a hole in the air.. But this is maybe your best argument.

Stroke - Well if you wanna get into it stroke in golf shouldnt work either since its a swing. If you say a stroke is a swing then i can argue a throw is a stroke also.

 

[nrihan]

Tap-in - I use when referring to when a Putt is so close you literally can "tap" the chains.

Fairway - You are being to narrow minded using only a ball golf definition. Fairway simply refers to the cleanest area/path.

Green - In nice well kept courses they do try to have a true "green" and keep the area around the basket nice.

Hole - A Basket can be seen as a hole in the air.. But this is maybe your best argument.

Stroke - Well if you wanna get into it stroke in golf shouldnt work either since its a swing. If you say a stroke is a swing then i can argue a throw is a stroke also.

/end thread

 

[tistoude]

In my experience playing rounds with long time, competitive players, alot of these terms are unconciously being phased out.

For example most people I play with call a tap-in a drop-in now.

Instead of the "green", I hear "you are in the circle" or "you are putting".

Fairway is still used and I think it still applies. As in, it is the fairest way to get to the basket (relatively speaking).

Even "hole" is not used as often as it used to be. Pin, pole and basket seem much more common. Obviously Pin is still a golf term but it is more applicable than hole.

I am curious if anyone else has noticed this change over happening.

 

[DavidSauls]

Re: Green

I've seen plenty of holes with a distinct green that's different from the 10-M circle.

Think island holes, for starters. But there are others.

 

[DavidSauls]

Anyway, on the general topic I understand the O.P.'s position, but there's a counterweight of folks trying to draw as much from (ball) golf as possible. See 80% of rules debate threads. And they'll say that it's "Disc GOLF". In the meantime, we throw midranges and hyzers and anhyzers and otherwise have plenty of non-shared lexicon, too.

 

[iacas]

Fairway - You are being to narrow minded using only a ball golf definition. Fairway simply refers to the cleanest area/path.

Perhaps, but for the sake of argument, I'll say I'm not. In golf there's a clear distinction between fairway and rough (originally they're sailing terms, and "rough" used to be "roughway"). In disc golf there's just an area with fewer trees most of the time.

Green - In nice well kept courses they do try to have a true "green" and keep the area around the basket nice.

It's still really not the same, IMO. In golf there are rules about what you can and can't do on the green and in DG there are rules about what you can and can't do from 10m and in. So "circle" makes the most sense to me because it's the "defined" area. On a golf course it's defined by shorter grass, on a DG course it's defined as 10m.

Hole - A Basket can be seen as a hole in the air.. But this is maybe your best argument.

Yeah, a hole in the air is a stretch, but I think you admitted to that one.

Stroke - Well if you wanna get into it stroke in golf shouldnt work either since its a swing. If you say a stroke is a swing then i can argue a throw is a stroke also.

No, "stroke" is defined in the rules in golf as the forward motion of the club with the intent to strike the ball. And dictionary.com says:

1. the act or an instance of striking, as with the fist, a weapon, or a hammer; a blow.
2. a hitting of or upon anything.

So you'll lose that one.

In my experience playing rounds with long time, competitive players, alot of these terms are unconciously being phased out.

For example most people I play with call a tap-in a drop-in now.

Instead of the "green", I hear "you are in the circle" or "you are putting".

Cool.

Fairway is still used and I think it still applies. As in, it is the fairest way to get to the basket (relatively speaking).

"Fair" enough.

Even "hole" is not used as often as it used to be. Pin, pole and basket seem much more common. Obviously Pin is still a golf term but it is more applicable than hole.

I don't have a problem with pin. In both cases it refers to the pole or stick.

 

[mreynolds24]

Stroke - It's a throw. Even a "shot" is okay. No strokes.

A stroke could also be a mark from a pen on the score card (i.e. tally mark). Just been my interpretation of the term across the sports. With every swing/throw you count a stroke on the scorecard.

 

[bradharris]

Green makes as little sense in ball golf as it does in disc golf. The entire fairway in ball golf is green (aside from bunkers and water of course). So "green" has somewhat abstractly been adopted to refer to the putting area in ball golf and I see no reason why the same term can't apply to disc golf as well. In many cases there is no real defined green in disc golf, but there are definitely cases where the term can apply.

 

[ViolaBouquet]

Tap-in - I use when referring to when a Putt is so close you literally can "tap" the chains.

Fairway - You are being to narrow minded using only a ball golf definition. Fairway simply refers to the cleanest area/path.

Green - In nice well kept courses they do try to have a true "green" and keep the area around the basket nice.

Hole - A Basket can be seen as a hole in the air.. But this is maybe your best argument.

Stroke - Well if you wanna get into it stroke in golf shouldnt work either since its a swing. If you say a stroke is a swing then i can argue a throw is a stroke also.

:clap:

 

[iacas]

Green makes as little sense in ball golf as it does in disc golf. The entire fairway in ball golf is green (aside from bunkers and water of course).

"Green" in golf is shortened from "putting green" and the origins of the word make a strong case for it, particularly the point that the rest of the early courses were often brownish (Scottish seaside courses tend to be brown, very rarely are they green) except the closely mown area at the end that was watered a bit more (kept green) to provide a better roll.

Early courses didn't have irrigation, so the putting green was in fact actually "green" unlike the rest of the course.

And even on the rattiest of golf courses you can find the putting green as it's still pretty well defined. I don't think defining something that only applies to nicely kept courses or "some cases" or something is the way to go.

Of course, "putting" is another word that doesn't really make sense in disc golf, either, especially when people "drive" with putters. Doesn't happen in golf nearly as often as it does in DG.

P.S. I'm really not trying to hate on anything or anyone. Just trying to spark some conversation. I found most of these things curious. I'll probably use some different terms like "In the Circle" instead of "on the green" and so on. A big part of how I earn a living is writing, so the words we use have always been interesting to me.

 

[Brall]

/end thread

crap! and i wanted to comment

wait, i still will

Fairway - Really? How about calling it the "Route" or the "Path" or something like that? Often it's indistinguishable from the surrounding area except that it's slightly less full of trees. You could say you're "off path" or "off route" rather than "off the fairway" or "in the rough."

i kinda agree but route or path doesn't roll off the tongue as well. even though i agree with you it would be very hard for me to stop saying.

Hole[/B] - There's no hole. Why do we call it the fifth hole? Why not the "fifth basket" or the "fifth route" or something?

Stroke - It's a throw. Even a "shot" is okay. No strokes.

yeah, i agree about the hole. every time i post pics i wonder why i label it "Hole".

i never use the word stroke. no one does that i play with... must be a ball golfer to disc golfer transition thing.

 

[bradharris]

"Green" in golf is shortened from "putting green" and the origins of the word make a strong case for it, particularly the point that the rest of the early courses were often brownish (Scottish seaside courses tend to be brown, very rarely are they green) except the closely mown area at the end that was watered a bit more (kept green) to provide a better roll.

Early courses didn't have irrigation, so the putting green was in fact actually "green" unlike the rest of the course.

And even on the rattiest of golf courses you can find the putting green as it's still pretty well defined. I don't think defining something that only applies to nicely kept courses or "some cases" or something is the way to go.

Of course, "putting" is another word that doesn't really make sense in disc golf, either, especially when people "drive" with putters. Doesn't happen in golf nearly as often as it does in DG.

P.S. I'm really not trying to hate on anything or anyone. Just trying to spark some conversation. I found most of these things curious. I'll probably use some different terms like "In the Circle" instead of "on the green" and so on. A big part of how I earn a living is writing, so the words we use have always been interesting to me.

Despite it's origins, the term "green" doesn't make much sense in today's ball golf. Many terms in sports evolve from their original practical use, to common usage that may not make as much sense today. In golf today, the green is no more green than the rest of the course, but it still has a very defined meaning.

Disc golf has many holes (bad term to define everything from tee to pin) that actually have very well defined putting areas. Island greens are probably the best example but there are others where the basket may be shielded by a number of trees and bushes that help to define the putting area. Since ball golf refers to it's putting area as a "green" the same term is adapted in disc golf.

The fact that in disc golf, not every hole has a true "green" doesn't make the term less relevant when it does.

I have nothing against the term putt in referring to the action of trying to put the disc in the basket. And when you're putting, naturally the disc you would use is a putter. The fact that someone may also drive with that disc doesn't change the fact that it's primary purpose is for putting.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There's a distinction between what has been formally defined terminology versus casual use. The words "fairway" and "hole" are officially defined in the PDGA Rules of Disc Golf. So it's a moot point whether those words should be used as they are already used. The words "tap-in", "green" and "stroke" are not defined, and in fact, "stroke" has never been used in the rules. "Throw" and "shot" are the proper terms instead of stroke as the OP suggested. The PDGA and several DG media outlets have been trying not to use "stroke" in copy. But some touring pros and many players haven't gotten the message or occasionally slip up by using stroke instead of throw or shot.

Green and circle are not equivalent in DG where the "green area" is typically much bigger than the circle if you consider the distance where you choose to use a putting motion is your personal definition of the green on that hole. While a putt is formally defined as shots within the circle, it doesn't exclude players from executing "putts" from outside the circle.

Oh, and disc golf has both bunkers plus our own version "buncrs" distinct from ball golf.

 

[kutz167]

if you came and played in illinois, you would see that there are actually fairways that are mowed to differentiate then from the rough on many courses. I would guess that about half of the courses I've played in illinois are this way.

 

[bradharris]

if you came and played in illinois, you would see that there are actually fairways that are mowed to differentiate then from the rough on many courses. I would guess that about half of the courses I've played in illinois are this way.

In New England, you'll find fairways that are carved out of some very rough woods.

 

[Jay Dub]

Tap-in - Shouldn't this be called a "flip-in" or a "drop-in" or something? You're not "tapping" anything in.

Fairway - Really? How about calling it the "Route" or the "Path" or something like that? Often it's indistinguishable from the surrounding area except that it's slightly less full of trees. You could say you're "off path" or "off route" rather than "off the fairway" or "in the rough."

Green - There's no clearly defined area as with golf. Why not call it "the Circle" since the rules call for a 10m circle?

Hole - There's no hole. Why do we call it the fifth hole? Why not the "fifth basket" or the "fifth route" or something?

Stroke - It's a throw. Even a "shot" is okay. No strokes.

Tap-in: I personally have never heard this, everyone I play with calls it "a gimme". Seriously.

Fairway: I think this is accurate, it's the fairest way to get to the target therefore I call it a fairway.

Green: I personally don't hear this that often, most just ask how close it is to the basket.

Hole: I hear "basket" more often than "hole".

Stroke: You have a point, it's more a throw than anything else. Although the throw is created with a back stroke of one arm.

 

[iacas]

i kinda agree but route or path doesn't roll off the tongue as well. even though i agree with you it would be very hard for me to stop saying.

No, they don't. It may be that if there are no better terms then "fairway" is the best available option.

Despite it's origins, the term "green" doesn't make much sense in today's ball golf.

It did at one time, though, while in DG it's never made much sense except as "borrowed" from golf.

There are lots of words that aren't really relevant in terms of why they came about to begin with, but which because they've been used for a hundred years or whatever just stick. "Green" in disc golf isn't one of those.

In golf today, the green is no more green than the rest of the course, but it still has a very defined meaning.

Well, they're still more green (better control and monitoring of their watering), and still the most finely manicured portions of the course, but yes, most of the course is also "green." But it has 100 years of history behind it (give or take) while disc golf has, what, 20? 30?

Disc golf has many holes (bad term to define everything from tee to pin) that actually have very well defined putting areas.

"Many" is not the same as "all." ALL golf courses have clearly defined greens. Only a few disc golf courses have clearly defined "greens" and even on those there will be some dispute when you get near the edges whether you're on the "green" or not because there's no "line" like the line created by mowing heights between the putting green and the fringe, fairway, or rough in golf.

Island greens are probably the best example but there are others where the basket may be shielded by a number of trees and bushes that help to define the putting area. Since ball golf refers to it's putting area as a "green" the same term is adapted in disc golf.

I understand that, but it doesn't have to have adapted the term. I'm going to call it the Circle, and I'm glad others are starting to do it too. Maybe in a month I'll give up on it but for now I'm sticking to it!

The fact that in disc golf, not every hole has a true "green" doesn't make the term less relevant when it does.

I disagree, unless you're saying that you're only going to use the term "green" WHEN you encounter a clearly defined area surrounding the basket (in which case I'd still disagree, but at least you'd be able to make your point).

I have nothing against the term putt in referring to the action of trying to put the disc in the basket. And when you're putting, naturally the disc you would use is a putter. The fact that someone may also drive with that disc doesn't change the fact that it's primary purpose is for putting.

But you're not "putting." Why not call it a "lob" or a "toss" or a "short" shot or something else? Invent a new word, even. You're defining the equipment from the act when the act itself took a bad name and forced it into use.

There's a distinction between what has been formally defined terminology versus casual use. The words "fairway" and "hole" are officially defined in the PDGA Rules of Disc Golf.

They aren't defined but the word "hole" appears several times.
http://www.pdga.com/rules

The words "tap-in", "green" and "stroke" are not defined, and in fact, "stroke" has never been used in the rules. "Throw" and "shot" are the proper terms instead of stroke as the OP suggested. The PDGA and several DG media outlets have been trying not to use "stroke" in copy. But some touring pros and many players haven't gotten the message or occasionally slip up by using stroke instead of throw or shot.

I hadn't really heard "stroke" TOO often, so that one was one of the weaker ones in my list.

Green and circle are not equivalent in DG where the "green area" is typically much bigger than the circle if you consider the distance where you choose to use a putting motion is your personal definition of the green on that hole. While a putt is formally defined as shots within the circle, it doesn't exclude players from executing "putts" from outside the circle.

I think "putt" in general should not have been used. Call it something else entirely. Even if the terms had kind of come about to be "throw" for longer shots and "toss" or "pitch" for shorter ones it'd make sense. Calling it "putting" or the disc a "putter" just strikes me, my own opinion which I'm just discussing and not trying to force on anyone at all, as silly.

Oh, and disc golf has both bunkers plus our own version "buncrs" distinct from ball golf.

No problem with the use of the word "bunker." I think golf stole that one too, anyway.

if you came and played in illinois, you would see that there are actually fairways that are mowed to differentiate then from the rough on many courses. I would guess that about half of the courses I've played in illinois are this way.

There are clearly defined "fairways" at Pymatuning as well. Most of the courses I've seen, though, just have better paths and not clearly defined "fairways" and then "rough" or something.

Okay, again, thanks for the discussion guys. I respect everyone's opinions here even if I disagree with them. They're opinions, and nobody's right or wrong. And regardless what you call things, it's still a fun sport and I'm happy to have found it.

 

[preton]

Another factor, I would think, in so many ball golf terms bleeding across the two games is that many disc golfers started playing ball golf (and played it for years) before ever throwing a golf disc. That was my experience, anyway. For a time, I even tried to start calling the targets "baskets" instead of "holes," but I was never able to shake the habit. Eventually, I just quit trying.

 

[iacas]

Tap-in: I personally have never heard this, everyone I play with calls it "a gimme". Seriously.

It's OT but I wonder how many people in disc golf will formally drop their disc in to the basket rather than just pick up like they will in golf. In golf people will often fail to putt out from three, four, even five feet away. I hope that practice doesn't extend to disc golf.

No problem from me with a "gimme" being used.

Fairway: I think this is accurate, it's the fairest way to get to the target therefore I call it a fairway.

I'm slowly being convinced on this one.

Green: I personally don't hear this that often, most just ask how close it is to the basket.

Fair enough. Maybe I have been "seeing" it used more often than it truly is used because it sticks out to me right now.

Hole: I hear "basket" more often than "hole".

I wish the official Rules would find a new word, then.

Stroke: You have a point, it's more a throw than anything else. Although the throw is created with a back stroke of one arm. [/QUOTE]

To be fair, too, I haven't heard the word "stroke" all that often. The Rules call it a "throw," too, and I'm okay with that term (throw).

Another factor, I would think, in so many ball golf terms bleeding across the two games is that many disc golfers started playing ball golf (and played it for years) before ever throwing a golf disc. That was my experience, anyway. For a time, I even tried to start calling the targets "baskets" instead of "holes," but I was never able to shake the habit. Eventually, I just quit trying.

Fair enough. I'm a PGA professional and run a golf site that does pretty well. I'm coming from golf too, and it's interesting, because my natural instinct or feeling is that disc golf should have forged more of its own language and identity and not borrowed quite so heavily from golf.

Including perhaps even calling it "disc golf" to begin with. Now, I don't have the first idea what you'd call it if NOT for "disc golf" but something else out there could have worked. Maybe even "dolf" (not "frolf") or "discolf" or something else entirely, like "Discs and Chains" or something. Those are all terrible ideas, btw. But maybe something other than "disc golf." Too late now.