The increasing advent of Elbow Injuries ...

[Sheep]

Elbow injuries are becoming more and more of an apparent issue from players who are wearing sleeves and what not, or just battling with these injuries over and over again.

In the pursuit of distance and power, something has to give. The elbow is the weak point in powerful form. But what really is it in these guys forms that just is really wrecking the elbow?


People constantly swoon over Calvin and his ability disc golfing. Something has never quite felt right to me about his game. He does throw some outright amazing shots, but as we now know, those shots have taken a toll on his health.

So, we have eagle with issues due to his abusive and careless use of his body, Calvin and a few others who I believe are toughing it out and not saying anything.

And I don't think that a lot of this is coming from "forehands" only. I think it's coming from pushing backhands far to hard as well. Simon ended up hurting his elbow from doing backhand trickshots. So, that really tells us that part of the technique they are using is hyper extending the elbow in some fashion on the backhand as well.

Maybe we should look into calvins power form and see what things he's doing that might be damaging peoples bodies.
Everyone is always on the quest for "more," but I think its important that we also be on the quest for "less" in the injury department. As we have constant amounts of youtubers out there who have played for 5 days and are making coaching and form video's teaching you how to do secret methods and double moves to throw 500 feet.

 

[VictorB]

Who knew that repetitive, violent motions could be bad for your body? Happens in all sports, from bowling to traditional golf to hockey and baseball

There are times where I wish I could throw 500', then think to myself "at least my body isn't falling apart because of disc golf". However, that's the price the pros have to pay in pursuit of elite play and making a career out of disc golf.

 

[419HondaGuy]

I wonder if some of these players elbow or shoulder injuries could have been prevented with a comprehensive resistance training program that was followed with consistency.

 

[Sheep]

Who knew that repetitive, violent motions could be bad for your body? Happens in all sports, from bowling to traditional golf to hockey and baseball

There are times where I wish I could throw 500', then think to myself "at least my body isn't falling apart because of disc golf". However, that's the price the pros have to pay in pursuit of elite play and making a career out of disc golf.

There are lots and lots of repetitive motions we can make if we are following some level of restraint in our abuse of our body.
The body is a fantastic device, but it has points where you are going beyond and you can't always tell. Just trying to squeeze in that extra inch.

Or some of this could be as simple as poor form taken to its maximum effective ability. So, it's good to look into it to see if its perhaps a posture/form issue that is being overcome by simply muscling passed it.


Were gonna have to pull video and do some form break down and see where limits may get pushed with Calvins form and see what we can figure out.
These answers are super important when it comes to coaching, and we want to steer people away from actions that can damage their body. This is why the whole issue with some of these new people to disc golf making video's about how to throw 500 feet or whatever dumb shit they are making can be hazardous to the game. Like one of the guys I talk to who got sucked into the double move club and now has a blown out off shoulder from trying to do it.

I wonder if some of these players elbow or shoulder injuries could have been prevented with a comprehensive resistance training program that was followed with consistency.

I think that Seth believes that with how he works with the disc golf players and the stuff he figures out for disc golf strong.

He's incredibly intelligent person to speak with and I enjoyed our hour plus conversation on form and biomechanics, exercise and such. It was neat listening to him explain how he helps the players and why they are doing certain exercises and such.

 

[419HondaGuy]

There are lots and lots of repetitive motions we can make if we are following some level of restraint in our abuse of our body.
The body is a fantastic device, but it has points where you are going beyond and you can't always tell. Just trying to squeeze in that extra inch.

Or some of this could be as simple as poor form taken to its maximum effective ability. So, it's good to look into it to see if its perhaps a posture/form issue that is being overcome by simply muscling passed it.


Were gonna have to pull video and do some form break down and see where limits may get pushed with Calvins form and see what we can figure out.
These answers are super important when it comes to coaching, and we want to steer people away from actions that can damage their body. This is why the whole issue with some of these new people to disc golf making video's about how to throw 500 feet or whatever dumb shit they are making can be hazardous to the game. Like one of the guys I talk to who got sucked into the double move club and now has a blown out off shoulder from trying to do it.



I think that Seth believes that with how he works with the disc golf players and the stuff he figures out for disc golf strong.

He's incredibly intelligent person to speak with and I enjoyed our hour plus conversation on form and biomechanics, exercise and such. It was neat listening to him explain how he helps the players and why they are doing certain exercises and such.

Thats pretty interesting, I would love to have that opportunity to talk biomechanics and training. From everything I have seen from him, he is def a great asset to the dg community especially in an area that is needed.
What would you venture to guess what % of pro tour players are consistent with resistance training? If I had to guess, less than 10% ?

 

[Sheep]

Thats pretty interesting, I would love to have that opportunity to talk biomechanics and training. From everything I have seen from him, he is def a great asset to the dg community especially in an area that is needed.
What would you venture to guess what % of pro tour players are consistent with resistance training? If I had to guess, less than 10% ?

I know throughout the day a lot of the pro players visited Seth's tent, but definitely not all of them.

Ricky works a lot with Seth and so do a few others who seem really into it. I know Oakley was big into Seths' program at one point. But.. It also comes down to your dedication to maintain yourself and exercise/stretch and watch your health.

But yeah, I'm sure maybe 10 to 20% max actually look at that. And it's mainly the people who are winning from what I saw, or the people who were athletes at one point.

I watched Brodie do his warm up exercises one time and he spends a good 10-15 minutes on stretching before even throwing practice putts.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Who knew that repetitive, violent motions could be bad for your body? Happens in all sports, from bowling to traditional golf to hockey and baseball

There are times where I wish I could throw 500', then think to myself "at least my body isn't falling apart because of disc golf". However, that's the price the pros have to pay in pursuit of elite play and making a career out of disc golf.

It isn't the ability as much as it is the reps. If your body is in the shape for it, you can turn yourself into a 500' thrower without needing to break down physically.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Thats pretty interesting, I would love to have that opportunity to talk biomechanics and training. From everything I have seen from him, he is def a great asset to the dg community especially in an area that is needed.
What would you venture to guess what % of pro tour players are consistent with resistance training? If I had to guess, less than 10% ?

Yeah, I echo what @Sheep said regarding Seth. Dynamic Discs brought him on as a "team perk" when I was still sponsored, maybe in my last year or two (2017-18). I found him to be very knowledgable, very worth engaging.

 

[biscoe]

It isn't the ability as much as it is the reps. If your body is in the shape for it, you can turn yourself into a 500' thrower without needing to break down physically.

Of course if you have to learn a new course on a golf course every week and have a bunch of 4 day events there is incentive to throw a ton of big shots and little time left for resting.

 

[Sheep]

It isn't the ability as much as it is the reps. If your body is in the shape for it, you can turn yourself into a 500' thrower without needing to break down physically.

You can be in great shape and still push passed your joint limits trying to achieve more.

Kind of like taking a good truck off road. You can do it, and do it well, but you do it to much or long trying to drive it like a baja truck, its going to fail.

 

[Sheep]

Of course if you have to learn a new course on a golf course every week and have a bunch of 4 day events there is incentive to throw a ton of big shots and little time left for resting.

I don't really think its necessarily that.
I think its a case of pushing the hole limits because of how course are being designed to challenge the players.

So, yeah, the shot needs that extra snap and spin, and you push that shot to hold that thing and the stuff. and.. so many times of doing this on different courses, and suddenly you're going to have random issues no matter how big your build is.

 

[itlnstln]

I don't really think its necessarily that.
I think its a case of pushing the hole limits because of how course are being designed to challenge the players.

So, yeah, the shot needs that extra snap and spin, and you push that shot to hold that thing and the stuff. and.. so many times of doing this on different courses, and suddenly you're going to have random issues no matter how big your build is.

Sounds a lot like the plague of elbow injuries in MLB pitching over the last couple of decades. These pitchers certainly don't have bad form, per se, but the value placed on throwing 100+ mph is forcing pitchers to push hard to reach that velocity. Then doing that for about 100 pitches a game will break down an elbow no matter how good your form is.

If course design is putting high value on 500'+ tee shots, there's a high likelihood we'll see more of the types injuries unfortunately

 

[419HondaGuy]

I am curious if some of these players' elbow injuries could also be attributed to utilizing mainly their "arm" in their swing, and not utilizing their back and core muscles in the swing.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Of course if you have to learn a new course on a golf course every week and have a bunch of 4 day events there is incentive to throw a ton of big shots and little time left for resting.

Yeah, I was just talking about Joe Schmoe who is physically capable learning to throw 500. I am definitely not suffering as I approach 40 because I learned to throw 500+, and peaked at 570s on a high throw with slightly turned run. I'm healthy because I never had to do what those guys do. And neither does Joe Schmoe.

Now if he'd said 500' on a forehand.....

You can be in great shape and still push passed your joint limits trying to achieve more.

Kind of like taking a good truck off road. You can do it, and do it well, but you do it to much or long trying to drive it like a baja truck, its going to fail.

Yes, if you overtax your body and you have bad form bad things can happen. A person capable of throwing 600 can get hurt learning to throw 325 feet before they ever get near 600.

 

[VictorB]

It isn't the ability as much as it is the reps. If your body is in the shape for it, you can turn yourself into a 500' thrower without needing to break down physically.

that's why I noted repetitive before violent

and if you're throwing 500-600, even if your body can 'handle it', it's still a ton of force being put through your joints. Pitchers go once every 5-7 days, lifters have deload weeks, hockey goalies dont' come close to playing 82 games, and there are 'maintenance' scratches in almost every sport.

Accumulated fatigue is a very real thing, and it's really surprising that more players aren't seriously hurt out on tour.

 

[ChrisWoj]

that's why I noted repetitive before violent

and if you're throwing 500-600, even if your body can 'handle it', it's still a ton of force being put through your joints. Pitchers go once every 5-7 days, lifters have deload weeks, hockey goalies dont' come close to playing 82 games, and there are 'maintenance' scratches in almost every sport.

Accumulated fatigue is a very real thing, and it's really surprising that more players aren't seriously hurt out on tour.

Yeah, I guess you did, I shouldn't have bothered with explanation. My central point though, is simply focused on that for Joe Schmoe it isn't a throw 500 or be healthy dichotomy.

I'll also add, though: I think a backhand is more like a baseball swing. I agree 100% regarding the need for rest, but I think the need for rest is more in line with rest from batting practice for a designated hitter in baseball than with a pitcher or a hockey goalie.

 

[Casey 1988]

Of course if you have to learn a new course on a golf course every week and have a bunch of 4 day events there is incentive to throw a ton of big shots and little time left for resting.

Yes, and top pro players having to play all events on tour just to keep rating up is another issue or having rating slip not becuse of players going higher then top rated player but having rating drop becuse of other players keep level up at same. However I am also sure of pushing courses further and further back becuse some young players can and will go all out to point some events get dropped from Pro Tour.

Soon someday I see people playing Pro Tour where players are playing on world's longest true 18 or 20 hole course of a permeant disc golf course, the one in Alaska or Canada, I forget.

 

[Casey 1988]

Yeah, I guess you did, I shouldn't have bothered with explanation. My central point though, is simply focused on that for Joe Schmoe it isn't a throw 500 or be healthy dichotomy.

I'll also add, though: I think a backhand is more like a baseball swing. I agree 100% regarding the need for rest, but I think the need for rest is more in line with rest from batting practice for a designated hitter in baseball than with a pitcher or a hockey goalie.

I will add I do think elbow injuries are like what we are or were seeing from Pro tennis players who in one era were doing super power hitting only and had very little touch unless player could do power touch all because of main player doing super power hitting only and even rare super power with touch.

Shoulder injuries are more like pitching for pitchers or some in tennis in how they have to have some kind of rotator cuff surgery.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

View attachment 335012

Elbow injuries are becoming more and more of an apparent issue from players who are wearing sleeves and what not, or just battling with these injuries over and over again.

In the pursuit of distance and power, something has to give. The elbow is the weak point in powerful form. But what really is it in these guys forms that just is really wrecking the elbow?


People constantly swoon over Calvin and his ability disc golfing. Something has never quite felt right to me about his game. He does throw some outright amazing shots, but as we now know, those shots have taken a toll on his health.

So, we have eagle with issues due to his abusive and careless use of his body, Calvin and a few others who I believe are toughing it out and not saying anything.

And I don't think that a lot of this is coming from "forehands" only. I think it's coming from pushing backhands far to hard as well. Simon ended up hurting his elbow from doing backhand trickshots. So, that really tells us that part of the technique they are using is hyper extending the elbow in some fashion on the backhand as well.

Maybe we should look into calvins power form and see what things he's doing that might be damaging peoples bodies.
Everyone is always on the quest for "more," but I think its important that we also be on the quest for "less" in the injury department. As we have constant amounts of youtubers out there who have played for 5 days and are making coaching and form video's teaching you how to do secret methods and double moves to throw 500 feet.

Does Calvin exercise?
Injuries are a physical reality of sport. Everyone falls. Everybody hurts themselves by pushing at the ceiling. Regardless of the fitness involved to enhance the body to protect it from that reality. Falling, or extending too far will happen. The body can only sustain the kind of pressure, and the expectations the user puts on that body for so long.

 

[Sewer bill]

I have a theory with no evidence or sources to back it up with just my own experience as a vaguely athletic construction worker.

I think that the follow through plays an enormous amount into what type of force is being put on the elbow. When I'm warming up and loosening up I can feel the deceleration of the forearm slowly become "wider" or it has more time to slow down smoothly.

I think occasionally everyone has a tight day where they just have less range of motion and even with stretching their body just isn't up for it. For most of us that means just don't throw so hard and it's no big deal, for pros, they'll just push through it and cause a tiny injury that they never give time to heal from and build on it until it's a big problem.

Range of motion is everything and it's why I hate most of the youtube vids that say do this to throw x amount of feet because none of them touch on the fact that it may only take a couple of months to throw 400+ but it takes an unathlethic person years to develop the flexibility to not hurt themselves.

Most disc golfers don't stretch enough and I have seen several pros throughout the years stumble out of their cars or hotel rooms still in a weed coma from the previous night and start bombing drives.

I know that reps is probably what wrecks most pros throwing arms but I do suspect that some of them push it when they should be backing way down and stretching more often.

I also suspect because everyone has different arm lengths and shoulder width that some people are anatomically more susceptible to hyperextention.