The Magical Disappearing Worlds

[shive]

Now you see it, and now you don't.

At Pro Worlds, as recently as 2004, most divisions had eight preliminary (before the semis) rounds over the period Tuesday-Friday. Then it went to seven (2003 and 2005), and for the last few years it has been six (or its equivalent). This year the schedule shows only five.

You really have to plan to stay for at least a week, in case you make the semis. Some divisions don't have semis, and those folks will play a maximum of five and a half rounds (if they make the finals) in five days. For most of us this requires an outlay of well over $1000. Is it worth it to spend that kind of money if you might only play five rounds in the four days, when you can often get four rounds of play at a two-day weekend event for a small fraction of that cost?

We have heard talk about Worlds becoming a more "social" gathering. We are beginning to see what that means. Apparently the PDGA believes that people want to have more time to socialize, to go on picnics and visit museums. Or, better still, to watch other people play. And the less time you play, the more time you will have to fill out a gallery.

This is not a "senior gripe"; we are all impacted. No division has more than five preliminary rounds. Here's a typical response from my Divisional Tour Newsgroup: "I am disinclined to be fleeced for $250 a day for the privilege of touring and hanging out." Precisely. As for myself, I'm a player, not a watcher. How about you?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think this format is an anomaly for this year due to the limit of 4 courses, 3 which take a long time to play and their distance apart. It has little to do with incorporating more social activities at Worlds although they will be more convenient for everyone since there are no tee time rounds this year.

 

[cmcolomb]

intriguing post with merit. will be following this discussion

 

[ru4por]

Now you see it, and now you don't.

At Pro Worlds, as recently as 2004, most divisions had eight preliminary (before the semis) rounds over the period Tuesday-Friday. Then it went to seven (2003 and 2005), and for the last few years it has been six (or its equivalent). This year the schedule shows only five.

You really have to plan to stay for at least a week, in case you make the semis. Some divisions don't have semis, and those folks will play a maximum of five and a half rounds (if they make the finals) in five days. For most of us this requires an outlay of well over $1000. Is it worth it to spend that kind of money if you might only play five rounds in the four days, when you can often get four rounds of play at a two-day weekend event for a small fraction of that cost?

We have heard talk about Worlds becoming a more "social" gathering. We are beginning to see what that means. Apparently the PDGA believes that people want to have more time to socialize, to go on picnics and visit museums. Or, better still, to watch other people play. And the less time you play, the more time you will have to fill out a gallery.

This is not a "senior gripe"; we are all impacted. No division has more than five preliminary rounds. Here's a typical response from my Divisional Tour Newsgroup: "I am disinclined to be fleeced for $250 a day for the privilege of touring and hanging out." Precisely. As for myself, I'm a player, not a watcher. How about you?

Not a senior gripe, but your personal one. All due respect to you Pete, but I am confident this has more to do with logistics than the percieved politics you are suggesting.
As for your question, I have not played a Worlds yet, but will gladly provide my opinion. I play disc golf several times a week, but vacation far less. I do not really mind time within the week to relax, have a couple drinks, check out some local National Park.....

 

[JC17393]

It's my understanding that the reduction of Worlds from 8 preliminary rounds to 6 was at the request of the membership (a survey in, I think 2003 or thereabouts). And if I recall, one of the driving reasons for that reduction was to both allow for more "down" time during the week as well as to open up time/space to potentially allow more players to attend without having to expand the required number of courses.

So I find it difficult to accept the idea that the majority of potential Worlds attendees are really up in arms over the continued move in the direction that was indicated in that survey all those years ago (and has been affirmed since).

 

[Lewis]

We have heard talk about Worlds becoming a more "social" gathering. We are beginning to see what that means ... to watch other people play. And the less time you play, the more time you will have to fill out a gallery. ... As for myself, I'm a player, not a watcher. How about you?

It would make far more sense to fill out the gallery of spectators with amateurs who are there to be entertained by the pros rather than by pros who made the trip to compete in the event. If the PDGA intends to fill out the gallery with pros who have already been eliminated from the competition, they're like a snake eating its own tail. Surely the PDGA realizes that autocannibalism is not a good business model.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If the actual intent of any format change (such as reducing prelim rounds) was to increase spectators for the Finals, they wouldn't cut anyone for the semifinals so more players were there on Saturday.

 

[DavidSauls]

Peter's got a point.....though I know far too little of the issues to know how good a point.

I've been to two Am Worlds---2001 and 2012. 2001 had 7 preliminary rounds; 2012 had 6. I was disappointed with the reduction; I didn't particularly care for 2 half-days off, especially since one was the first day of competition. (As it turned out, I had to withdraw due to a death in the family, so it didn't matter).

All things being equal, if I'm off for a week of disc golf, I'd like to play as much disc golf as possible, in some combination of more courses, or at least twice per course.

 

[MikeK]

Count me as one player who likes the reduction in rounds at Pro Worlds. I have never been a fan of the week-long format and as such I have only attended Pro Worlds twice since turning pro, when it was held at places with interesting enough locations so that I could explore them during the off time. So I went to Flagstaff in '05 and Portland last year and had a great time.

For me it is absolutely not about socializing at all. I find a lot of the people who attend Worlds are a bit too obsessive about disc golf and are generally cult-like in their worship of all things PDGA. So if I have to spend a week with the cult I really need to be in a place offering lots of scenery to balance out the insanity.

 

[dobbins66]

Speaking entirely from an Am Worlds perspective - I'm a fan of the 6 preliminary rounds 1-2-1-2 format. Gives time to check out courses for the next day, heal wounds from previous day (physical & mental) and check out other groups playing. This year on the days I'm playing one round my son (attending his 1st worlds) has 2 so I'll have time to walk along and caddy for him while seeing a course I'll be playing.

 

[biscoe]

Each time I went to worlds I was sick and tired of playing disc golf by the time the darn thing was over. The chance to check out a new city full of new restaurants was far more attractive than 2 rounds of disc golf a day for 4 days.

 

[Shipley]

Each time I went to worlds I was sick and tired of playing disc golf by the time the darn thing was over. The chance to check out a new city full of new restaurants was far more attractive than 2 rounds of disc golf a day for 4 days.

Never been to worlds, but this is the sentiment I hear from those who've gone.

 

[DavidSauls]

Each time I went to worlds I was sick and tired of playing disc golf by the time the darn thing was over. The chance to check out a new city full of new restaurants was far more attractive than 2 rounds of disc golf a day for 4 days.

That's what the evenings are for.

I liked the 2-2-1-2 myself. One afternoon off was enough to play tourist, plus the evenings, plus the Monday before (with a bit of light practice). Of course, I'm in no danger of playing in semis or finals, so my perspective might be skewed.

Well, this certainly demonstrates the issue everyone from guy running local league up to the PDGA deals with---lots of different tastes out there, and you can't please them all.

 

[tom12003]

In 2012, Charlotte went for 6 rounds (before the Saturday Semi-finals and the Finals Saturday afternoon). The days that had one round/day were on courses that went with tee times as a shotgun start was not optimal (Renny Gold for pros, R.L. Smith for AMs). A round at these 2 courses could easily consume 4 hours and could destroy schedules (add possible thunderstorm delays) and result in a lot of carping. I heard no complaints from the players over the 1-round tee time start days.

 

[martinb]

Count me as one player who likes the reduction in rounds at Pro Worlds. I have never been a fan of the week-long format and as such I have only attended Pro Worlds twice since turning pro, when it was held at places with interesting enough locations so that I could explore them during the off time. So I went to Flagstaff in '05 and Portland last year and had a great time.

For me it is absolutely not about socializing at all. I find a lot of the people who attend Worlds are a bit too obsessive about disc golf and are generally cult-like in their worship of all things PDGA. So if I have to spend a week with the cult I really need to be in a place offering lots of scenery to balance out the insanity.

WHOA!!!! mikeys back!!! good to see you posting sensibly sort of.....:thmbup:
and peter, i would like to see a worlds attendant survey to see if the actual people who are going feel negatively about this. ive been to two worlds and would want to play as much as possible if i went again. so for me less is not good.

 

[DavidSauls]

In 2012, Charlotte went for 6 rounds (before the Saturday Semi-finals and the Finals Saturday afternoon). The days that had one round/day were on courses that went with tee times as a shotgun start was not optimal (Renny Gold for pros, R.L. Smith for AMs). A round at these 2 courses could easily consume 4 hours and could destroy schedules (add possible thunderstorm delays) and result in a lot of carping. I heard no complaints from the players over the 1-round tee time start days.

That wasn't true of all divisions. The Am Masters pool I was in played a round at Reedy Creek, then had the afternoon off, both on Tuesday and Thursday.

But it does make more sense when there's a chance to play a longer, more epic course on the "one course" day.

 

[ScottyLove]

I like the 1-2-1-2 or 2-1-2-1 depending on the pool assignment. With the practice and casual play on the single round days, I'm usually beat! I know both days last year where there were 2 rounds, I wound up playing a 3rd with the folks I was camping with. I don't need any more than 6 myself.

 

[JTacoma03]

Now you see it, and now you don't.

At Pro Worlds, as recently as 2004, most divisions had eight preliminary (before the semis) rounds over the period Tuesday-Friday. Then it went to seven (2003 and 2005), and for the last few years it has been six (or its equivalent). This year the schedule shows only five.

You really have to plan to stay for at least a week, in case you make the semis. Some divisions don't have semis, and those folks will play a maximum of five and a half rounds (if they make the finals) in five days. For most of us this requires an outlay of well over $1000. Is it worth it to spend that kind of money if you might only play five rounds in the four days, when you can often get four rounds of play at a two-day weekend event for a small fraction of that cost?

We have heard talk about Worlds becoming a more "social" gathering. We are beginning to see what that means. Apparently the PDGA believes that people want to have more time to socialize, to go on picnics and visit museums. Or, better still, to watch other people play. And the less time you play, the more time you will have to fill out a gallery.

This is not a "senior gripe"; we are all impacted. No division has more than five preliminary rounds. Here's a typical response from my Divisional Tour Newsgroup: "I am disinclined to be fleeced for $250 a day for the privilege of touring and hanging out." Precisely. As for myself, I'm a player, not a watcher. How about you?

I don't understand what exactly it is that 6 or 8 rounds proves over 4-5? I wish worlds was 4 rounds. I fail to see what the extra days add that justifies the cost. Make worlds MPO and FPO only, 4 rounds.

 

[loki the trickster]

I don't understand what exactly it is that 6 or 8 rounds proves over 4-5? I wish worlds was 4 rounds. I fail to see what the extra days add that justifies the cost. Make worlds MPO and FPO only, 4 rounds.

I second the men's and woman's open only. I mean it is supposed to be the cream of the crop of professionals. Then again i dont believe am worlds should exist either.

As for days... 5 sounds about right!

 

[DiscJunkie]

Talking to some GM friends I had that went to 2012 Worlds in Charlotte, so many rounds in a limited period of time can be tiring. I think they might have preferred fewer rounds during the week. I cannot speak to the other divisions.

However, for the MPO's and FPO's, I believe the 6,7, or even 8 round prelims constitute a good test of their fitness and their mental strength. I would not be in favor of less rounds for them, and believe fewer round cheapens the value of the MPO and FPO Worlds.