The Upshot: Steve Dodge, Texas States, Daniel Boe [Pres. by Pound Disc Golf]

[ToddL]

As far as the DGPT/Jomez thing. Jomez improved their product all on their own. But they used the DGPT schedule to be able to make a living out on the road and have a consistent event to film week after week. But overall Steve's tour was doing fine before Jomez ever shot anything with the DGPT. They escalated each others growth most likely. But I would argue no more than UDisc, CCDG, and SmashBoxxTV as well all contributed to a consistent experience.

Agreed.
I generally agreed with Steve's amendment/correction in the interview. Jomez was already good, they were already stepping up their game, but the DGPT gave them another source of high quality tournaments to film. Personally, I don't care to watch a boring B-tier with a bunch of no-names in it no matter how good the camerawork or graphics are (false dichotomy). Being able to film Paul, Ricky, Eagle, Simon, etc more often at important tournaments was a boost to Jomez. And Jomez being really good at videos was a boost to the DGPT events. Same thing with UDisc, CCDG, and SmashBoxx. Everyone helps everyone.

 

[billyjacko]

He's accepted responsibility that he failed

I don't think he has though.

 

[lyleoross]

I don't think he has though.

No, he did, he just did it politically. That can be separated from him cookieing those who noticed that Jomez does good work.

What he didn't do was eat humble pie. Our culture has a real problem with this right now. We want someone we don't like to eat it, and we want those we support to shove the pie back in their critic's faces. Steve wasn't humble about the whole thing, but he did acknowledge problems and that bringing Smash back on board would make a better product.

 

[XC_Eddy]

Y'all are really caught up on the cookie analogy. I want one of those supercolor discs that sometimes are made to look like a pizza, but it's a chocolate cookie with a Jomez stamp. Take it away, and I'll be pissed.

I know it sounded condescending, but he has a point. I am mad at the DGPT and specifically Steve Dodge because I liked the way I could watch the pros I like play the game I like at the tournaments that I like, and then Steve made decisions that took that setup away. Fans have not been generous to him at all, and a lot of that is because loved watching high quality post-produced coverage of DGPT, and now we don't get to do that because of decisions Steve made. He may have had perfectly good reasons for the decisions that were made, but the reasons have very little affect on fan perception of Steve Dodge. He is right when he says that the reasons don't matter, especially to the commentors on Facebook and Youtube.

Johnny V is spot on about the mutual growth part of the conversation. I was glad that Jamie pushed him on it because I was also alarmed when Steve off-handedly took some credit for Jomez's success. What he can claim is a helping to provide a platform for them to showcase their talent and product, which is more or less what he said when given the opportunity to revise his answer. I thought he did a good job when pressed on that topic. He's right: DGPT and Jomez's growth are connected, which partially explains why people were pissed when they parted ways.

I actually thought this was the most human that Steve Dodge has come across in 2019. Bad facebook statements are much less humanizing than an interview. He took responsibility for mistakes he's made. He admitted that he thought he could deliver a high quality media product and that he hasn't. Welcoming Smashboxx back represents an action step of this realization. I'm really glad he took the time to do the interview. Jamie and Charlie don't beat around the bush and pushed him on the subjects that I needed to hear from Steve Dodge on. I appreciate the work he is doing and the risks he is taking to try to grow the professional side of the sport even if I disagree with some of the steps that he has taken along the way.

 

[JTacoma03]

What's the difference?
Whether the new switchboard operator quit or just sucked at his job wouldn't have made a difference. A change needed to be made.

If their new switchboard operator was amazing, then we would all have loved the coverage and most of this conversation wouldn't have ever taken place. If the new guy was great, then Steve would have been right.

But the new guy wasn't great, so Steve failed. He's accepted responsibility that he failed, and it's necessary for him to make a change, so he hired Smashboxx.

Just a point of clarity without inserting opinion here:

Danielle Charlier (sp?) was going to be switching the show. She wasn't "new" to the tour, she worked with them in some capacity the previous year. I'm personally not sure what her role exactly was, but she and I were exchanging emails when I needed media credentials to cover Memorial, but by the time I arrived in AZ she had apparently taken another job.

From what I understand this was part of the initial plan when cutting smashboxx, to have her run the show. Steve was tight-lipped about it in AZ, and DGPT hasn't really elaborated on the situation, so that's all I know.

 

[jvphobic]

.Also, it doesn't seem like he's accepted that post produced hour long videos get many, many more views than live coverage.

I disagree with this. Steve knows very well what gets more eyeballs overall. But the question is as to what is more valuable? He has to weigh the value of 20K viewers who are actively taking time out of their busy day to watch the full live product, or 60K viewers who watch at their leisure. And I honestly don't know what that equation is, and frankly don't need to know.

What is more valuable getting 3 ads in for a post production video for a front 9 that is viewed by 60K people (Jomez average). Or getting 9 ads in the front 9 for a live product in front of 20K people.

***I use the 20K number because that is about the average number of views that are on live before the post production comes out next day.

 

[billyjacko]

Steve wasn't humble about the whole thing, but he did acknowledge problems and that bringing Smash back on board would make a better product.

He's acknowledge problems, but I don't think he accepted responsibility for it. A specific example is when he was talking about how the data failed him or whatever when he was talking about scaling up the live coverage. It wasn't his fault, he had bad data.

 

[billyjacko]

Danielle Charlier (sp?) was going to be switching the show. She wasn't "new" to the tour, she worked with them in some capacity the previous year. I'm personally not sure what her role exactly was, but she and I were exchanging emails when I needed media credentials to cover Memorial, but by the time I arrived in AZ she had apparently taken another job.

From what I understand this was part of the initial plan when cutting smashboxx, to have her run the show. Steve was tight-lipped about it in AZ, and DGPT hasn't really elaborated on the situation, so that's all I know.

It reminds me of that episode of The Office where they are going to shut down Scranton promote the Stamford branch manager. At the last minute he used the new position to leverage into a better job at another company throwing all the plans out the window.

 

[_MTL_]

I truly don't know what the fascination with video coverage is for tournament directors.

A very popular disc golf video channel approached me once about filming an event I was running. Nobody bid, but Dickerson and Johansen were playing, so there was draw there.

Here is basically how the conversation went:

Video Company (VC): I'd love to come out and film your event this weekend. Has anyone asked?
Me: No, it's all yours. We'd love to have you!
VC: Great! I charge $250 a round, but I'll do the entire four rounds for $750. Or one day of it for $400
Me: No thanks.
VC: What's the least you would pay me?
Me: I honestly wouldn't pay you anything. I doesn't add any value to my event. If anything you should be paying me to be there.
VC: Why should I pay you?
Me: Well, you are going to post on youtube and you generate revenue based on views. If you don't have my permission to film, you won't have a video to post on youtube to generate revenue.
VC: It's not much that I make.
Me: That still doesn't explain why I should pay for it. I'm willing to not have you pay me, but that's the best I can do.

Someone truly explain what an event gets out of videoing it.

Do sponsors care that their players are filmed? Absolutely. Should players be rewarded for being filmed by their sponsor? Absolutely. Will anyone ever sponsor an event in the future because last year's event got 25K views on youtube? TBD.

 

[Three Putt]

No, he did, he just did it politically. That can be separated from him cookieing those who noticed that Jomez does good work.

What he didn't do was eat humble pie. Our culture has a real problem with this right now. We want someone we don't like to eat it, and we want those we support to shove the pie back in their critic's faces. Steve wasn't humble about the whole thing, but he did acknowledge problems and that bringing Smash back on board would make a better product.

It weird. It's like we want a winner and loser.

The problem is that if we have a loser, something that everybody wants to still be around (be it DGPT, CCDG, Smashboxx and/or Jomez) will disappear. So we don't actually want a loser, do we?

 

[JTacoma03]

It reminds me of that episode of The Office where they are going to shut down Scranton promote the Stamford branch manager. At the last minute he used the new position to leverage into a better job at another company throwing all the plans out the window.

Interesting lesson on perspective in this. He's seen as the bad guy (Season 3 - Branch Closing I think is that episode?) for that moment...but then in Season 6 the company goes bankrupt and gets bought out...

I don't know if it relates to this scenario...but interesting nonetheless.

I truly don't know what the fascination with video coverage is for tournament directors.

A very popular disc golf video channel approached me once about filming an event I was running. Nobody bid, but Dickerson and Johansen were playing, so there was draw there.

Here is basically how the conversation went:

Video Company (VC): I'd love to come out and film your event this weekend. Has anyone asked?
Me: No, it's all yours. We'd love to have you!
VC: Great! I charge $250 a round, but I'll do the entire four rounds for $750. Or one day of it for $400
Me: No thanks.
VC: What's the least you would pay me?
Me: I honestly wouldn't pay you anything. I doesn't add any value to my event. If anything you should be paying me to be there.
VC: Why should I pay you?
Me: Well, you are going to post on youtube and you generate revenue based on views. If you don't have my permission to film, you won't have a video to post on youtube to generate revenue.
VC: It's not much that I make.
Me: That still doesn't explain why I should pay for it. I'm willing to not have you pay me, but that's the best I can do.

Someone truly explain what an event gets out of videoing it.

Do sponsors care that their players are filmed? Absolutely. Should players be rewarded for being filmed by their sponsor? Absolutely. Will anyone ever sponsor an event in the future because last year's event got 25K views on youtube? TBD.

Not to be a dick, honestly, but if in 2019 you don't understand the power of media (and social media) can - it's not the rest of us who are behind.

If you don't understand how to leverage 25k views into sponsorship for your next year's event, then that's an area you have to work on in your TD "game". I was able to do it as a first-time TD, and you have far more experience than I do, and I'm sure deeper relationships in your local area than I do.

 

[Keller]

It weird. It's like we want a winner and loser.

The problem is that if we have a loser, something that everybody wants to still be around (be it DGPT, CCDG, Smashboxx and/or Jomez) will disappear. So we don't actually want a loser, do we?

A loser doesn't necessarily mean something disappears. Would just be reshuffled and something new fills the void.

In the big picture, disc golf is small potatoes and all these entities fighting for the prime showcase just makes us look even more unorganized. The general tour needs cohesion, not "my tour is gonna be better than your tour" mentality. Steve wanted to be king, sorry, the poster on his wall should have said "try not, do" instead of "I'll try".

Also, Steve talks about the views being up, not so sure. Most people I know won't watch live coverage and many who did, only gave it a little bit to see if it really had become something. So I would imagine a lot of those counter hits are 10 minutes and done. Also, people like watching train wrecks.

 

[JC17393]

If you don't understand how to leverage 25k views into sponsorship for your next year's event, then that's an area you have to work on in your TD "game". I was able to do it as a first-time TD, and you have far more experience than I do, and I'm sure deeper relationships in your local area than I do.

That's part of the equation I used. Like MTL, I was approached by a representative of a popular disc golf Youtube channel to cover my event this summer. I came to an agreement with them to cover the FPO division at my event in part because he was more willing to discount his fees in the name of getting more women's coverage out there, but mainly because 2.5 rounds of coverage of any kind is something I can use to promote my business (the course itself) and my future events. The clincher was that I was fairly easily able to secure sponsorship for the coverage (from sources that weren't going to just throw me cash to then hand over to the players in payout) so ultimately I'll get the promotion I want without much of a loss.

All that said, there IS a difference between a random B-tier featuring no one who's a household name paying to get coverage and an elite event featuring the biggest names in the sport paying to get coverage. I mean, there's a reason that networks pay billions of dollars to broadcast MLB games but not minor league games. Or why Division I college teams/conferences have their own networks and Division III schools are excited to get on local access. It's apples and oranges to compare the economics of covering an NT or DGPT event compared to a local B or C tier.

 

[colink]

Someone truly explain what an event gets out of videoing it.

Do sponsors care that their players are filmed? Absolutely. Should players be rewarded for being filmed by their sponsor? Absolutely. Will anyone ever sponsor an event in the future because last year's event got 25K views on youtube? TBD.

Look at the Zoo Town open videos, and which players show up on the lead card. After 1 year of CCDG coverage I believe that they sold out all their slots, and after 2 years pros started showing up because they heard about the tournament through YouTube.

People sponsor tournaments for advertising and goodwill. Have your sponsorship on someone's channel with 25K views is a good way to promote both of those.

 

[Glide]

It reminds me of that episode of The Office where they are going to shut down Scranton promote the Stamford branch manager. At the last minute he used the new position to leverage into a better job at another company throwing all the plans out the window.

That is far from what happened here. I know Danielle personally.

 

[JTacoma03]

All that said, there IS a difference between a random B-tier featuring no one who's a household name paying to get coverage and an elite event featuring the biggest names in the sport paying to get coverage. I mean, there's a reason that networks pay billions of dollars to broadcast MLB games but not minor league games. Or why Division I college teams/conferences have their own networks and Division III schools are excited to get on local access. It's apples and oranges to compare the economics of covering an NT or DGPT event compared to a local B or C tier.

Absolutely, the situations are different, but the overarching point is that in this sport more than others there is little to no barrier to entry for a tournament to develop a media plan and pop up on the international radar in short order.

Now...obviously if you have exceptional elements to your event (a tournament that is well run, an epic course, etc.) you will climb faster than others, I'm not suggesting it's a miracle pill or anything.

...I'm just surprised that the guy who ran Worlds in 2012, still 7 years later doesn't understand the power of media at a local and regional level. I'm really not trying to be an ass, it's just so common sense to me.

Maybe I should think about producing a series for Ultiworld that helps TD's learn new tools to help them? I'm sure there are pieces that Robert can contribute to as well as many other quality TD's out there.

 

[turbosteve]

How much is the DGPT spending for live coverage? Perhaps the DGPT would be more profitable if they only streamed the final round? How much is the DGPT selling in merchandise? Why aren't all of the event websites updated? In my opinion the DGPT has a lot more problems than running video media.

 

[turbosteve]

Absolutely, the situations are different, but the overarching point is that in this sport more than others there is little to no barrier to entry for a tournament to develop a media plan and pop up on the international radar in short order.

Now...obviously if you have exceptional elements to your event (a tournament that is well run, an epic course, etc.) you will climb faster than others, I'm not suggesting it's a miracle pill or anything.

...I'm just surprised that the guy who ran Worlds in 2012, still 7 years later doesn't understand the power of media at a local and regional level. I'm really not trying to be an ass, it's just so common sense to me.

Maybe I should think about producing a series for Ultiworld that helps TD's learn new tools to help them? I'm sure there are pieces that Robert can contribute to as well as many other quality TD's out there.

I think this would be a great idea to help TD's get more sponsors.

 

[billyjacko]

That is far from what happened here. I know Danielle personally.

I don't mean to use the analogy to slight her at all. I simply mean the DGPT seemed to not be prepared at all for this curve ball.

 

[Bgso]

I disagree with this. Steve knows very well what gets more eyeballs overall. But the question is as to what is more valuable? He has to weigh the value of 20K viewers who are actively taking time out of their busy day to watch the full live product, or 60K viewers who watch at their leisure. And I honestly don't know what that equation is, and frankly don't need to know.

What is more valuable getting 3 ads in for a post production video for a front 9 that is viewed by 60K people (Jomez average). Or getting 9 ads in the front 9 for a live product in front of 20K people.

***I use the 20K number because that is about the average number of views that are on live before the post production comes out next day.

That's probably why steve commonly references "Viewer watch time" when he recites growth and viewer metrics.