Could someone explain, in fine detailed physics, the flight of a Thumber?
Lol - we can't agree on what causes turn or what side of a disc moves further for a normal RHBH throw.
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Could someone explain, in fine detailed physics, the flight of a Thumber?
If the magnus effect is what is causing the turn, it makes sense that we see the effect heightened dramatically when throwing into a headwind, and lessened when throwing into a tailwind.
I refuse to accept the Magnus effect as a significant contributor to a disc's flight. The sidewall height of a disc is waaaaaay too small for this to have a real effect.
Headwinds and tailwinds affect the airspeed the disc sees. Changing the airspeed changes the lift characteristics (moves the center of pressure forward or backward). The movement of the CP affects the turn of the disc.
Have you watched the video I linked earlier? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTjGTxSevHE
I refuse to accept the Magnus effect as a significant contributor to a disc's flight. The sidewall height of a disc is waaaaaay too small for this to have a real effect.
Headwinds and tailwinds affect the airspeed the disc sees. Changing the airspeed changes the lift characteristics (moves the center of pressure forward or backward). The movement of the CP affects the turn of the disc.
Yup. That's pretty much it.
Reading physics or math on Wikipedia is generally not very useful.
Have you watched the video I linked earlier? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTjGTxSevHE
It's useful in that it generally shows which side will experience faster air, but it's not the reason that the air is faster.
Just a little nit-picking here.
I contend that the left side of the disc would actually have a tiny tiny bit less lift than the right due to additional friction from the advancing surface slowing the air down a little bit. If anything, the center of lift would move to the right side with faster rotation.
And your last paragraph gets into the so called Magnus effect (which is really the same as the Bernoulli principle being driven by friction). The left side of the rim (the actual vertical face, more prevalent on an ultimate disc) would slow down the air on the left, while the right side would speed up the air, resulting in a sideways force to the right.
Do the Major Disc manufacturers have aero engineers on staff who understand all this stuff, or are they making molds through guess and check?
There you get into the magic of aerodynamics. That's a bit on the complicated side. I probably couldn't give you a good answer without looking at CFD results.The only thing I haven't seen explained well is why more US discs keep the center of lift behind the center of the disc for longer - and why this moves forward as the disc slows.
The only thing I haven't seen explained well is why more US discs keep the center of lift behind the center of the disc for longer - and why this moves forward as the disc slows.
It would be interesting to know although knowing probably wouldn't help my game any.
I had seen that article before, closed the tab before I read it, and could never remember where it came from...As no one seems to have mentioned it yet, some of the best/only actual research on the aerodynamics of disc golf was conducted by Jonathan Potts (PhD) of the British company Discwing (makers of the Quarter K). It appears the company domain is defunct now, but their site is preserved here:
https://reddwarf.1st4domains.co.uk/discwing.com/research/aerodynamics.html
The first article there (Frisbee Aerodynamics), for example, suggests that the 'pitching moment' is responsible for both 'turn' and 'fade'. I admit to not fully understanding the physics he's talking about, however, and will defer to anyone better able to understand/interpret that research than I.
This morning I posted a link here to a page that has pdfs of the articles by Potts, Hummel's thesis, and other research in disc aerodynamics. Apparently it got overlooked because I didn't describe it very much.As no one seems to have mentioned it yet, some of the best/only actual research on the aerodynamics of disc golf was conducted by Jonathan Potts (PhD) of the British company Discwing (makers of the Quarter K).
This morning I posted a link here to a page that has pdfs of the articles by Potts, Hummel's thesis, and other research in disc aerodynamics. Apparently it got overlooked because I didn't describe it very much.
Thanks for the heads up. I guess Discwing is out of business.2. The Potts links are dead.