ManU
* Ace Member *
a spit out of a good putt should NOT just "be part of the game"
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Arroyo Disc Golf Basket
- Thread starter bergdawg
- Start date
who-dat
Eagle Member
i don't believe anyone is 'upset' w/new designs by any means, i'm simply agreeing that spit outs are part of the game, be it for good or bad.
someone stated before in this thread that the uncertainty of a putt holding is part of the excitement. i couldn't agree more.
another stated that it can be very frustrating when a putt hits center chains and doesn't hold, i could agree more either, but to me its part of the love/hate relationship i have with the game.
i got tired of my missed putts going 20' past the basket w/a missed 'firm' or 'strong' direct putt, so i began push putting...
being that i use a push or drop-in style of putting, I'll admit I am VERY biased on the subject if it means my putts would get rejected out of the front of the basket....
don't get me wrong, i'd like to try the vortex....
^^^^Amen to that. At Towne Lake there are all types of putts that come out and there is no pattern. Soft putts will sometimes go through and then come back at you. And same with harder putts, just no pattern at all. They have become part of the game there and has even earned a term for those putts
I read this and can't help imagining what darts would be like if the board had a 1 in 10 chance of completely denying your throw.
jcf5083
Double Eagle Member
We're not playing darts, we're playing disc golf.
TonyAPE12
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 471
Exactly, and playing plastic tip darts, there is a chance that the dart gets rejected, so that argument is flawed anyway.
You new to this site? That post was not me ranting. I was simply making discussion. I can rant if you want though...
Your flaw here is the assumption of the word "better". My point is exactly this - is trading one set of issues for another "better" or an "improvement"? Or is it just catering to a specific type of player. As Roc1Time put it - both types of putts spit out now, and it's a part of the game.
Just as some tree hits knock you down and some give you that magical kick like the disc jumped off of it towards the basket - should we outlaw certain types of trees on courses? Have diameter rules standardizing tree trunks?
You shoudn't put a game on "easy mode" just because some people can't adjust their putting style to the rules. Should the NBA lower the rim height so everyone can dunk? Should Shaq get 4 free throws just because his FT% sucks?
If it spits out, is it really a good putt?
Is the longest drive always the best one?
Is the fastest driver always the best disc off the tee?
People who think "yes" don't understand golf.
Devils Advocate
Let's turn the tables on myself and bring up another idea.
What if baskets were used in conjunction with hole design/course design?
An Arroyo basket on an elevated green, a Mach 1 for a deathputt-green, etc.
Maybe the problem here is just how it's marketed - don't call it the basket to "catch everything" because that's not good for the game. We need it to be a sport, not something that EVERYONE can do on a high level. If we reduce the gap between top tier pros and the average joe we are condemning ourselves to forever be a fringe activity.
What if it's marketed as the basket to catch harder putts and spit touch putts? What if they also make a model which catches lob putts and rejects harder putts? More creative minds will realize that this can be used in conjunction with course design to further force shots.
We already applaud courses that force you to throw different drives, why should you always be allowed to throw the exact same putt? Golfers don't do this - they must play the slope and speed of the green to put it in the cup. Make the game harder by saying "here you must use touch, here you must be firm with the putter"
I see this a being a progressive step forward...thoughts?
Let's turn the tables on myself and bring up another idea.
What if baskets were used in conjunction with hole design/course design?
An Arroyo basket on an elevated green, a Mach 1 for a deathputt-green, etc.
Maybe the problem here is just how it's marketed - don't call it the basket to "catch everything" because that's not good for the game. We need it to be a sport, not something that EVERYONE can do on a high level. If we reduce the gap between top tier pros and the average joe we are condemning ourselves to forever be a fringe activity.
What if it's marketed as the basket to catch harder putts and spit touch putts? What if they also make a model which catches lob putts and rejects harder putts? More creative minds will realize that this can be used in conjunction with course design to further force shots.
We already applaud courses that force you to throw different drives, why should you always be allowed to throw the exact same putt? Golfers don't do this - they must play the slope and speed of the green to put it in the cup. Make the game harder by saying "here you must use touch, here you must be firm with the putter"
I see this a being a progressive step forward...thoughts?
jsun3thousand
Banned
circle of life. you hand one out, you get one back.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42214
ManU
* Ace Member *
oh I know exactly for what reason you made the post
I do hope you continue to help me improve
jimbosprint
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1,820
Go play tone poles. You either hit it or you don't. Same goes for any basket, no matter how well it catches. As long as all the baskets are the same and everyone is playing the same baskets, it is fair. That is just the target for the course.
who-dat
Eagle Member
plastic darts have already been named, but even metal tipped darts can be rejected by the metal outline that separates the scoring areas....
it IS part of the game of darts too....
i would like to try the basket though, even if it doesn't suit my putting style, i'd still like to try it
To support jt's point, ill use myself and my best friend.
We shoot simillar scores but are very differnt when putting. He uses a 12:00, super spin putt, while I use a lofty push. His putting range is much larger but he is always spitting out. So on these baskets, for me to keep up, I'd have to change to his crappy putt
We shoot simillar scores but are very differnt when putting. He uses a 12:00, super spin putt, while I use a lofty push. His putting range is much larger but he is always spitting out. So on these baskets, for me to keep up, I'd have to change to his crappy putt
Sean Johnson
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 646
So here is the situation as I see it: A basket comes out with certain improvements made. Most seem to agree that the change, by it's very design, will reduce or eliminate blow throughs when putting. Similar ideas have been discussed on this site and by top Pros. Whether it works for this purpose doesn't seem to be the topic of debate here. It actually looks like some are downright offended by the idea that we should even try and improve targets. Baskets haven't really change much in decades, and this one seems to address one of the chief concerns that people have raised for just as long.
In 9/10 cases, I'd tell the victim of a blow-through to quit whining and slow their put down, but there are legitimate cases where conventional wisdom does not apply. Some of the craziest ones that I've had were with the softest of putts. It was going slow enough that I could actually watch it's carefully chosen path through the basket and out the other side.
My issue is also that some people have already declared that is basket is going to be awful for touch putters. On what basis? You saw some guys putting on it for a little while? That is hardly the foundation for a well formed opinion. I am a pitch putter so I will rarely benefit from the changes that this basket brings. With that being said, I haven't seen anything convince me that I have anything to worry about. I'm not saying that the haters wont end up being right, I just think there needs be a little more exposure and testing before we pass judgment.
*Not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but how about the implications for ace runs?
In 9/10 cases, I'd tell the victim of a blow-through to quit whining and slow their put down, but there are legitimate cases where conventional wisdom does not apply. Some of the craziest ones that I've had were with the softest of putts. It was going slow enough that I could actually watch it's carefully chosen path through the basket and out the other side.
My issue is also that some people have already declared that is basket is going to be awful for touch putters. On what basis? You saw some guys putting on it for a little while? That is hardly the foundation for a well formed opinion. I am a pitch putter so I will rarely benefit from the changes that this basket brings. With that being said, I haven't seen anything convince me that I have anything to worry about. I'm not saying that the haters
wont end up being right, I just think there needs be a little more exposure and testing before we pass judgment. *Not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but how about the implications for ace runs?
ManU
* Ace Member *
it may have been mentioned early or in a write up or in a PM to me
but this basket is intended to reduce/eliminate a chain out on an ace run or fairway eagle
you'd expect that to be a good thing
but this basket is intended to reduce/eliminate a chain out on an ace run or fairway eagle
you'd expect that to be a good thing
Sean Johnson
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 646
Sounds like fun to me :hfive:
to address only the first question, the best answer is not necessarily. I've seen super slow putts bounce out that hit dead center from about 10' away. the guy did a push putt into the basket that just hit and bounced right out. I've also seen people skilled enough to hit dead center chains from 50' away squeeze through them. I realize that a softer putt should have a higher probability of sticking, but if someone throwing from 50' away can hit the chains, it should stick.
To support jt's point, ill use myself and my best friend.
We shoot simillar scores but are very differnt when putting. He uses a 12:00, super spin putt, while I use a lofty push. His putting range is much larger but he is always spitting out. So on these baskets, for me to keep up, I'd have to change to his crappy putt
I think this is a legitimate argument against the new baskets. However, if his crappy putting style keeps hitting chains, I don't see what's so crappy about it. However, if he misses, I'm sure he's blowing by. So It's still the same thing.
And for you guys that say this is changing the game, the game has been changing since it began. Basketball changes. Styles of how people dress change. Everything changes.
There's an ancient Italian maxim that roughly translates to, "He who is resistant to change is destined to perish." So, why don't you try to open up
that mind of yours? You know?
Spatula Cornroll
Eagle Member
Anything to make the sport easier.
Hey guys,
My name is Kevin Huver and im one of the co-founders of Arroyo Disc
Sports. I just wanted to make a post and clear some of this discussion up. Our basket the Vortex does not in any way, shape or form make it easier to make putts. All we have done is designed a basket that leaves it up to the disc golfer to make a putt. What I mean is that if you do everything right when putting and hit the sweet spot you will make the putt every time. But if your line is off or you hit the chains with less than 50% of your disc in the chains your chance of making it is greatly reduced, usually resulting in a chain out to the side, about 5-10 feet away. We here at ADS have seen the change in our sport over the past couple of years and have relized the only part of our sport that is not improving is the basket. As disc design and player technique improves so should the the basket. Once you get a chance to putt on it you will see that its not a catch all putts basket but a basket that does not punish the player for doing everything right. As far as the luck of the game, well we have improved your chance for those aces and longer up shots/putts to stay in. Yes most of the driving force behind this has been from seeing disc golfers from the elite level to the recreational level growing more frustrated with the current baksets. Improving the equipment in our sport will allow the growth that we all want to see. The sport is growing faster than ever and we here at ADS want to make sure that it keeps progressing and growing.
Our basket is made from all aluminum parts except the chains and connectors. Making it less of a task to change the pin placements at your course or to be more creative when creating your course. Our basket are 100% American made from the frame to the chains. We are currently taking the final steps for manufacturing and are creating our course packages. Our basket will sell for $350 solo and $320 in bulk orders from 9 to 18. We will be offering packages from just baskets to full course features. We will also have tons of course options you can pick from to make it more personal to your club.
We really love to hear the feed back on our products good and bad. We at ADS value our fellow disc golfers and their opinions. If there are any further question please feel free to send myself or Logan/DaKineSurfer32 a personal message and we will get back to you as soon as we can.
Kevin Huver
Co-Founder
Arroyo Disc Sports
arroyodiscsports.com
My name is Kevin Huver and im one of the co-founders of Arroyo Disc
Sports. I just wanted to make a post and clear some of this discussion up. Our basket the Vortex does not in any way, shape or form make it easier to make putts. All we have done is designed a basket that leaves it up to the disc golfer to make a putt. What I mean is that if you do everything right when putting and hit the sweet spot you will make the putt every time. But if your line is off or you hit the chains with less than 50% of your disc in the chains your chance of making it is greatly reduced, usually resulting in a chain out to the side, about 5-10 feet away. We here at ADS have seen the change in our sport over the past couple of years and have relized the only part of our sport that is not improving is the basket. As disc design and player technique improves so should the the basket. Once you get a chance to putt on it you will see that its not a catch all putts basket but a basket that does not punish the player for doing everything right. As far as the luck of the game, well we have improved your chance for those aces and longer up shots/putts to stay in. Yes most of the driving force behind this has been from seeing disc golfers from the elite level to the recreational level growing more frustrated with the current baksets. Improving the equipment in our sport will allow the growth that we all want to see. The sport is growing faster than ever and we here at ADS want to make sure that it keeps progressing and growing.
Our basket is made from all aluminum parts except the chains and connectors. Making it less of a task to change the pin placements at your course or to be more creative when creating your course. Our basket are 100% American made from the frame to the chains. We are currently taking the final steps for manufacturing and are creating our course packages. Our basket will sell for $350 solo and $320 in bulk orders from 9 to 18. We will be offering packages from just baskets to full course features. We will also have tons of course options you can pick from to make it more personal to your club.
We really love to hear the feed back on our products good and bad. We at ADS value our fellow disc golfers and their opinions. If there are any further question please feel free to send myself or Logan/DaKineSurfer32 a personal message and we will get back to you as soon as we can.
Kevin Huver
Co-Founder
Arroyo Disc Sports
arroyodiscsports.com
mickas
Eagle Member
I'm rather skeptical about putting into "ghost baskets"
