Trying to get my backhand form to 400ft and beyond

[Dundee]

1. Would still like to see how you normally walk.

2. Can see your hips doing that weird pop in DD, instead of pivoting/swiveling/gliding like smooth oil.

3. Need to flare your feet open/out. You are turned in to much I think and restricting your hips.

4. Your kicking hip should get back behind posted hip or back to it and head over foot.

5. What discs are you throwing?

1. I'm walking in this video: https://youtu.be/uHmEtk7nkrQ

2. Are you referring to what's happening at the 7 second mark in this video? https://youtu.be/ek9H2Ct13W0

3. I'm not sure why that happens. I'm definitely not trying to do it on purpose.

4. I will work on that. I didn't feel like I was doing this drill right

5. Buzzz, TL, Lift, Heat, Grace. Sometimes I'll practice with the Pure as well. Teebird is my favorite disc, but I'm trying to move away from this. Flippy discs suck here because it's always so windy. I understand it's a crutch for me at this point

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Interesting, your walk does look fairly normal.

2. 6 sec, 27 sec. Before that you are planting too backwards with your hip past your knee.

6. You are kicking too fast/short and staying too centered between your feet. Slow down and make it longer kick/swing back and forth, almost like you are going take another step with the kicking foot.

 

[Dundee]

1. Interesting, your walk does look fairly normal.

2. 6 sec, 27 sec. Before that you are planting too backwards with your hip past your knee.

6. You are kicking too fast/short and staying too centered between your feet. Slow down and make it longer kick/swing back and forth, almost like you are going take another step with the kicking foot.

Regarding 2, any idea what's causing my hip to do that? Could it be something to do with where the pressure is at on my front foot? Also, what does DD mean? I think I must have missed the thread that talked about that. I kinda wish the search function on here was a little easier to use. I feel like there's a ton of threads that I'm missing out on.

 

[sidewinder22]

Regarding 2, any idea what's causing my hip to do that? Could it be something to do with where the pressure is at on my front foot? Also, what does DD mean? I think I must have missed the thread that talked about that. I kinda wish the search function on here was a little easier to use. I feel like there's a ton of threads that I'm missing out on.

2. Planting too backwards.

DD=Double Dragon

 

[Dundee]

2. Planting too backwards.

DD=Double Dragon

So planting too backwards. Does that mean I'm not moving laterally towards the target, and instead "backing" up towards it. I wonder if I'm taking the "butt to the target" principle too seriously and it's causing me to plant backwards

 

[sidewinder22]

Stance is too narrow for sure, you can't catch yourself in dynamic alignment/angle to front leg. Need to stride front foot during backswing and tilt back on rear leg.

 

[Dundee]

Stance is too narrow for sure, you can't catch yourself in dynamic alignment/angle to front leg. Need to stride front foot during backswing and tilt back on rear leg.

I like this image a lot. Sometimes I think I miss the big picture and focus on the wrong things. Bad weather here so I couldn't go out but I still just wanted to try and get roughly into that position you're in on that image.

https://youtu.be/BPZemUwnkk4

Sorry for no slo-mo. I also didn't focus a bit on my arms, I know it's really wacky and messed up here. I was just trying to get into your position. It looks somewhat better than myself in the image.

I've also noticed that my back foot is constantly spinning out. This happens on grass and concrete on the course and carpet in some of the videos. When my rear foot spins out, I think it also results in me planting backwards instead of striding towards the target and also makes me over-rotate my upper body. Tell me if I'm wrong with that analysis.

On a side note, I think my grip is bad. I went through this period of time where I was ripping the skin off my middle finger after an hour or so of fieldwork. I think I'm gripping the disc too hard, which causes me to tense my arm and not make it weightless. Definitely more pressure applied by the middle finger than any other. I'll leave a picture of my grip tomorrow

 

[Dundee]

I was reading this thread started by Brychanus where a few of y'all were talking about Uli and his posture. The video SW22 linked made me think about how I do not drift (aka falling?) towards the target and just end up reaching my foot out. How do you achieve the drift?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxe9Gej95yg#t=5m10s

 

[Dundee]

Also realized I'm more of a dumbass than I thought. After reading this post, I didn't realize the weight shift is diagonal to the target. I've been trying to shift directly targetward while having my body slightly diagonal to the target. Which causes me to twist my body instead of it naturally happening as a result of the diagonal weight shift. Post #3 on this thread made me realize it. I'm sure this has been beaten into my head numerous times throughout my own post, but I never really realized it.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132388

 

[sidewinder22]

I like this image a lot. Sometimes I think I miss the big picture and focus on the wrong things. Bad weather here so I couldn't go out but I still just wanted to try and get roughly into that position you're in on that image.

https://youtu.be/BPZemUwnkk4

Sorry for no slo-mo. I also didn't focus a bit on my arms, I know it's really wacky and messed up here. I was just trying to get into your position. It looks somewhat better than myself in the image.

I've also noticed that my back foot is constantly spinning out. This happens on grass and concrete on the course and carpet in some of the videos. When my rear foot spins out, I think it also results in me planting backwards instead of striding towards the target and also makes me over-rotate my upper body. Tell me if I'm wrong with that analysis.

On a side note, I think my grip is bad. I went through this period of time where I was ripping the skin off my middle finger after an hour or so of fieldwork. I think I'm gripping the disc too hard, which causes me to tense my arm and not make it weightless. Definitely more pressure applied by the middle finger than any other. I'll leave a picture of my grip tomorrow

That is looking better, except your rear arm flying out around. Keep it tight or swinging inside your posture like bowling thru or upper cut, not a flying hook.

 

[Dundee]

That is looking better, except your rear arm flying out around. Keep it tight or swinging inside your posture like bowling thru or upper cut, not a flying hook.

I tried recreating the indoor swing with an actual standstill. Doesn't feel just right. Still wasn't worried about my off arm as it's just too much for me to concentrate on right now until I figure out the weight shift.

https://youtu.be/6GTCzNadTDk

Also, my grip is really starting to get in the way. I keep ripping the skin at the right tip of my middle finger. I watched your grip video and have adjusted my grip to what is shown in the attached pictures. Thoughts?

 

[Dundee]

Photos didn't upload in the last reply

 

[sidewinder22]

Try the 2 finger grip, should have space between index/middle finger and more diagonal disc/grip angle. Thumb should be pressing into the inner rim. Your thumb is over top the outer rim.

You are extending/standing up out of posture/tilted spiral instead of staying down and rotating thru.

 

[Dundee]

Try the 2 finger grip, should have space between index/middle finger and more diagonal disc/grip angle. Thumb should be pressing into the inner rim. Your thumb is over top the outer rim.

You are extending/standing up out of posture/tilted spiral instead of staying down and rotating thru.

Uploaded photos of two finger grip. Is there enough space between index and middle finger? Messing with my grip has caused a nose up release problem. When I started playing, I learned to "pour the coffee" so that I wouldn't throw nose up. However, I think I tense up my forearm doing it, and I've trying to keep my arm weightless. Which leads to relaxing my forearm and it was flexed when I was "pouring the coffee". How do I keep the disc aligned with my arm so that I don't throw nose up?

Also, how do I stay down through the throw? Drill or anything for this? It just seems natural for me to want to stand up.

I went out and threw again. For the first time in a long time I feel like I'm doing something different in these throws. I know my off arm is garbage and I'm still standing up. In the rear view, I threw way left of my line. However, I think I'm learning to get my weight toward the target now. At least I hope I'm doing that better. Also prepared to hear that it's even worse than before. It feels like I'm trying to keep my butt to the target while getting my body as far away from the disc as possible, without getting out of posture.

https://youtu.be/IgFoSWJzp3Y

https://youtu.be/ii_SYMqoI3c

 

[sidewinder22]

Slash Thru like a lumberjack - you wouldn't stand up out of it.

 

[Dundee]

Slash Thru like a lumberjack - you wouldn't stand up out of it.

Am I staying down in this video?

https://youtu.be/DaXnKCfgUxk

I think I'm beginning to develop a terrible habit. My throwing arm just naturally wants to go in this weird slot.

I'm dragging my rear side behind me. Is that because my weight isn't fully on the plant leg? Or is related to my off arm? Or both?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Put a beverage in your rear arm and move your body slow enough so you don't spill it.

2. Sit down into it the hit and swing forward. Don't stand up until after release.

 

[Dundee]

1. Put a beverage in your rear arm and move your body slow enough so you don't spill it.

2. Sit down into it the hit and swing forward. Don't stand up until after release.

I liked that video and ended up watching some more from him. Found these two below.

https://youtu.be/8_p2ngpuPq8

https://youtu.be/g4c73hQy4QA

I know you've said a thousand times in a roundabout or straight forward way that I'm trying too hard. I think it now makes sense that I have been trying to activate the hips for way too long in the throw instead of letting the energy transfer up my body. Because at different points in this thread you have said I'm spinning out and I know I have recently been trying to get my hips to the target too fast like he says in these videos

 

[Brychanus]

I think it now makes sense that I have been trying to activate the hips for way too long in the throw instead of letting the energy transfer up my body. Because at different points in this thread you have said I'm spinning out and I know I have recently been trying to get my hips to the target too fast like he says in these videos

I'll mention & affirm again: people spend IMHO way too much time fixating on the hips themselves and "activating" them because they don't understand that the motion they're after is part of the whole posture and achieving a natural motion like walking or running, but b@stardized for the weird lateral move that is DG BH. They also don't tend to think very critically about what the hips are. For learning adults, assumptions and language get in the way and people get all tangled up and confused and lost forever. Relax, and learn that it really is as "simple" as walking. Just weirder and with some posture prerequisites.

Every improvement I've had in my form since coming here has reduced more and more effort in everything that happens up to & including the point where I land and swing. I believe that is how Drew Gibson (or any big gun) feels when he drops his entire body in shifting from behind when he plants. Look at that booty:

If you put "stank" on your swing, it's IMO (1) ideally a response to momentum and shifting your mass, and (2) only after optimizing that do you get a lot of safe, reliable, low wear & tear power out of additional contractile effort. These effects basically start to ramp up when you land shifting from behind into the plant, and leverage harder against the ground & transfer it up the chain and get more elastic contractile & redirection force.

But you want that kinetic process to be as efficient and low effort as possible, or I guarantee you that it will backfire. The lesson here is to get your body moving in a way that you can do that without thinking about it. SW's leading you to water here, hang in there.

 

[Dundee]

I'll mention & affirm again: people spend IMHO way too much time fixating on the hips themselves and "activating" them because they don't understand that the motion they're after is part of the whole posture and achieving a natural motion like walking or running, but b@stardized for the weird lateral move that is DG BH. They also don't tend to think very critically about what the hips are. For learning adults, assumptions and language get in the way and people get all tangled up and confused and lost forever. Relax, and learn that it really is as "simple" as walking. Just weirder and with some posture prerequisites.

Every improvement I've had in my form since coming here has reduced more and more effort in everything that happens up to & including the point where I land and swing. I believe that is how Drew Gibson (or any big gun) feels when he drops his entire body in shifting from behind when he plants. Look at that booty:

If you put "stank" on your swing, it's IMO (1) ideally a response to momentum and shifting your mass, and (2) only after optimizing that do you get a lot of safe, reliable, low wear & tear power out of additional contractile effort. These effects basically start to ramp up when you land shifting from behind into the plant, and leverage harder against the ground & transfer it up the chain and get more elastic contractile & redirection force.

But you want that kinetic process to be as efficient and low effort as possible, or I guarantee you that it will backfire. The lesson here is to get your body moving in a way that you can do that without thinking about it. SW's leading you to water here, hang in there.

I think I have a hard time realizing this because I cannot shift behind into the plant yet. So I'm not leveraging against the ground. So if I don't put effort into it, my throw goes nowhere. Also feels really weird not to try hard. Like just lackadaisical swinging my arms around with my body just doesn't seem like an athletic movement. However I was mediocre at any sport I played so what do I know. Only having decent hand-eye coordination saved me, I guess.

It still confuses the hell out of me to hear you guys refer to it as walking. Like I just cannot wrap my head around that. I have just walked sideways just to see if I feel a connection between the disc golf throw and walking, but I notice nothing. I have slightly begun to see what y'all are talking about with the falling aspect, but then I can't relate that to walking. I know Dan Martin says that everyone leans forward (falling) when walking but I just can't see it. I'm guessing it'll make sense when I randomly manage to do it right once.