[Mids] Are overstable mids pointless?

[McLeod]

To summarize:

Overstable mids ARE pointless.

~End scene~

Unless you have a cannon arm. I use a Gator when I want to keep it under 250ft. I tried overstable fairway drivers but they end up overshooting the basket by 100ft.

For me overstable midranges act like a governor. I can put the same normal power in my drives and in essence club down.

 

[zenbot]

Unless you have a cannon arm. I use a Gator when I want to keep it under 250ft. I tried overstable fairway drivers but they end up overshooting the basket by 100ft.

For me overstable midranges act like a governor. I can put the same normal power in my drives and in essence club down.

Don't bother, dude. These guys don't get it...and they're better at disc golf than anyone in the world.

 

[Scoot_er]

Sorry that i only read the 1st 5 pages but 15 pages of posts on a single day is too much for me.

Anyway I feel that they are necessary and not just for short hyzers. I use a Drone and before that a Blaze to throw forced turnovers out the hand which would flatten out and then hyzer. It seems these situations come up quite a bit and often the gap is easier to hit at an angle from the left and this type of shot increases the size of the gap when you force an anhyzer through.

Also I love using stable mids for stall hyzers out to about 300ft where the disc falls back and left at the end of its flight.

 

[JTacoma03]

I said almost this exact same thing a couple posts up:

No, that's not the same thing. You ended by saying "mastering release angles = greatness" and that's what I'm saying is incorrect. There's no right vs. wrong when the argument is mastering disc angles vs. mastering disc molds (for lack of better punctuated argument summary). The argument is like lay-ups versus dunks. They're different in principle, but achieve the same result in practical applications. You'll find people in basketball arguiing the same (lay-ups are better vs. dunks are better).

There are a lot of similarities, and I don't have enough of a ball golf background to really engage in any more than a superficial discussion of this. What I can say is that there are more variables in disc golf when you switch discs than in golf when you switch clubs. In golf, you mainly switch your club, but keep your swing the same. You grip all your clubs the same, and you usually do not vary your power too much on each stroke. You don't have to worry about clubs "breaking in" or different "lines". I know there are ways to spin the ball to get a slight right or left hook, but its nowhere near as complicated in this respect as the flightpath of discs.

I don't mean to insult you, I'm very glad you brought up a thought provoking thread that inspires debate, but you're incorrect on this.

In Golf:
1. There are grip variations by player, club, and shot.
2. You switch clubs more than discs. Nobody plays Par 3 courses with just a putter.
3. There are different swings for different types of shots, how would you create differing spin speed and direction on a ball if you only swung the club along one path??
4. Depending on how you quantify "power" (a tricky term in both Golf and DG) you absolutely vary it on shots.
5. There's little worry about clubs breaking in, correct, however-
a. balls wear out
b. you worry about hitting the "sweet spot" on the club face
6. There most definitely are "lines" to play. If you think that ball spin speed and direction minimally affects a shot, you need to watch somebody in the PGA with a wedge. The approach game in golf is equally if not more complicated than DG.

Again, I'm not trying to flame. However, the idea that disc golf is more complicated than golf is very far from correct, especially giving the examples you listed.

 

[G-MIL]

I have to agree with you JTacoma. To put it in few words, I played ball golf for about 7 years before I picked up disc golf 4 years ago. It seems there are very different variables in the two but when it comes to execution and grip/throwing styles, the learning curve in disc golf is much easier than that of consistent grip/stance/execution of ball golf.

 

[discspeed]

No, that's not the same thing. You ended by saying "mastering release angles = greatness" and that's what I'm saying is incorrect. There's no right vs. wrong when the argument is mastering disc angles vs. mastering disc molds (for lack of better punctuated argument summary). The argument is like lay-ups versus dunks. They're different in principle, but achieve the same result in practical applications. You'll find people in basketball arguiing the same (lay-ups are better vs. dunks are better).




I don't mean to insult you, I'm very glad you brought up a thought provoking thread that inspires debate, but you're incorrect on this.

In Golf:
1. There are grip variations by player, club, and shot.
2. You switch clubs more than discs. Nobody plays Par 3 courses with just a putter.
3. There are different swings for different types of shots, how would you create differing spin speed and direction on a ball if you only swung the club along one path??
4. Depending on how you quantify "power" (a tricky term in both Golf and DG) you absolutely vary it on shots.
5. There's little worry about clubs breaking in, correct, however-
a. balls wear out
b. you worry about hitting the "sweet spot" on the club face
6. There most definitely are "lines" to play. If you think that ball spin speed and direction minimally affects a shot, you need to watch somebody in the PGA with a wedge.

First of all, there is not a great disc golfer out there who has not mastered the angles of release.

Regarding golf, as I said, I don't have the experience to really get into an in depth conversation. The only point I was really trying to make was that clubs are more standardized in shape than discs are, and disc flights (a flying object) are affected on more dimensions than a golf ball (a projectile). What do you think about the trading bags scenario? (who would do better if playing with a competitors equipment, the golfer or ball golfer?).

 

[Frank Delicious]

I played ball golf from when I was little (grew up as a country club kid) and I have to say it is hard to compare the two. Ball golf, the emphasis on equipment is on something that stays in your hand and affects the projectile whereas disc golf the emphasis is on the thing that flies through the air.

A similarity though is that no one who is good has only mastered their equipment, they have definitely mastered tons of techniques to manipulate the projectile. (bg: swing plane, wrist break, follow through angle, where the ball is in your stance. DG: angle of release, spin, follow through, arm speed)

Also this is pretty unfair to list.

2. You switch clubs more than discs. Nobody plays Par 3 courses with just a putter.

Ball golf is almost two separate games, one to get to the green and one on the green. You have to bring more than just a putter to play first game and then a putter to play the second game.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Anyway that post was kinda rambling, what I am trying to say is that a person who wants to be good at either sport can't just master their equipment, they must master their technique. In DG it makes more sense to learn to manipulate release angles instead of mastering dozens of discs that all do things slightly different.

 

[zenbot]

I played ball golf from when I was little (grew up as a country club kid)

No wonder you're a big fat douche booster.

 

[zenbot]

No wonder you're a big fat douche booster.

That's a compliment BTW. You enhance the douche.

 

[zenbot]

Anyway that post was kinda rambling, what I am trying to say is that a person who wants to be good at either sport can't just master their equipment, they must master their technique. In DG it makes more sense to learn to manipulate release angles instead of mastering dozens of discs that all do things slightly different.

To speak on this point I never said you only need to master the equipment. In fact I wasted a whole day at work stating that it was a combination of both and it's nice to have the equipment when it fits the job.

 

[zenbot]

Thank you all for stealing Wednesday from me.

 

[Jax11]

Sorry to jump in on this late, but I throw most of my mid-range shots and longer putts FH (not conventional I know). I rely on my Gator for most shots between 150-270' FH, so there is where the overstable mid plays a role in my game.

My question on that statement is should I be able to throw a Buzz or Roc that far FH? I can usually throw a Buzz 150' FH by finessing it, but if I try to put a little extra on it and get it 200' or more I always turn it over, sometimes even if i start it on a hyzer angle.

 

[Technohic]

Sorry to jump in on this late, but I throw most of my mid-range shots and longer putts FH (not conventional I know). I rely on my Gator for most shots between 150-270' FH, so there is where the overstable mid plays a role in my game.

My question on that statement is should I be able to throw a Buzz or Roc that far FH? I can usually throw a Buzz 150' FH by finessing it, but if I try to put a little extra on it and get it 200' or more I always turn it over, sometimes even if i start it on a hyzer angle.

I have heard that a truely clean FH throw, should be able to throw your discs you throw BH.

That being said, working on putters to improve my BH, I also throw them FH when it calls for it and it is really hard.

 

[DannyM]

My gator is exclusively a forehand shot midrange. My forehand shots I use a MUCH more stable disc than I would throw backhand, and the gator makes a perfect mid for me. I'll switch around with this and a Banshee for short-range forehand shots, depending on the distance, or how much turn I'll need.

 

[bikinjack]

I have heard that a truely clean FH throw, should be able to throw your discs you throw BH.

That being said, working on putters to improve my BH, I also throw them FH when it calls for it and it is really hard.

I can't throw FH without massive OAT. Maybe someday I'll figure out how to without my elbow locking up, but for now it's just not happening.

 

[discspeed]

Its true that if you are clean with your forehand you will be able to throw anything. However, forehand by nature is a more torque driven throw, so I can understand forehand throwers using overstable mids.

SO...Overstable mids are useful for:
Skilled players who throw very hard
Forehand dominant players
Those in some stage of development in their game where they have difficulty with speed/angle control

So they are not pointless, but they do not have wide appeal.

 

[Technohic]

I can't throw FH without massive OAT. Maybe someday I'll figure out how to without my elbow locking up, but for now it's just not happening.

Well, I managed to get the putters to go without a flip over crash and burn, but they still hold an anny line all the way, which defeats my main purpose for FH, and that is to finish right.

Still got some work to do.

 

[gkeberhart]

if you dont have the arm to get a solid result every time from an over stable mid, I would consider them pointless. however, I do rely very heavily on my Demon for approaches that need a hyzer, headwind shots, and short drives because it hits and stops. If I was any weaker with my throws I probably wouldn't be able to get it to fly as it should and would say they are pointless.

 

[wtafro]

I find the overstable mid, (in my bag a Medius) to be just what I need on windy days and when I know I will throw my Blitz clear past the basket.