“The Secret Technique” to throw Roc 375’ with 15% power

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Pretty sure Step 1 of the "secret technique" is to throw a Roc.

In related news: I need a new Roc :|

 

[Lastchancer88]

Hey I'm half way thru and I still don't know what "basing the shoulder" means. I hope I find out because it seems important.

Also that copypasta was the most poorly written authentic frontier gibberish I've ever seen. Not one comment about how excruciating that was. I can't believe I made an effort to decipher that.

You're not alone!

Basing the shoulder is the idea that your left shoulder is the handle of a whip and everything between it and the disc is the rest of the whip. You "base" the left shoulder aka stop the handle (or move it in the opposite direction) and the rest unfurls from that anchor. Similar idea to the swim move taught more frequently these days. The easiest example to see is Garrett Gurthie because his left arm moves in a very obvious opposite motion.

At least this is how I understand it.

 

[RowingBoats]

Basing the shoulder is the idea that your left shoulder is the handle of a whip and everything between it and the disc is the rest of the whip. You "base" the left shoulder aka stop the handle (or move it in the opposite direction) and the rest unfurls from that anchor. Similar idea to the swim move taught more frequently these days. The easiest example to see is Garrett Gurthie because his left arm moves in a very obvious opposite motion.

At least this is how I understand it.

This post itself is, as the kids say, based.

 

[Lastchancer88]

This quote is my favorite part of Blake's secret technique and also SW's teachings. It's all an attempt with pure heart to develop a methodology that works for most. The quote is from one of Blake's responses on DGR:

"something key here is this... as i know i will always have nit-pickers who disagree because they can name half a dozen pros that do it differently... if it was that easy to do using their form, throwing far would be easy if you sunk your time into mimicking said pros. right now this is a throw that emphasizes the little things that are of great importance in hope that they will be easier to develop. whether or not they stay in an idealized form upon final execution is less important than developing the timing to making those little things happen in a throw where they previously were not."

 

[RowingBoats]

This quote is my favorite part of Blake's secret technique and also SW's teachings. It's all an attempt with pure heart to develop a methodology that works for most. The quote is from one of Blake's responses on DGR:

"something key here is this... as i know i will always have nit-pickers who disagree because they can name half a dozen pros that do it differently... if it was that easy to do using their form, throwing far would be easy if you sunk your time into mimicking said pros. right now this is a throw that emphasizes the little things that are of great importance in hope that they will be easier to develop. whether or not they stay in an idealized form upon final execution is less important than developing the timing to making those little things happen in a throw where they previously were not."

For sure. When I was first starting out, I remember staying up many nights reading deep into the tomes of the DGR forum posts lol.

I see exactly what Blake was trying to do. SW22 took it to another level. Both of them just want people to grok something core to the swing as the primary mission in most of what they say/do. SW22 has a very remarkable ability to take things way further as well, but I really do think Blake was onto something trying to distill some of this.

Some of the discussion here lately seems to be going in way the opposite direction, where people are trying to use words to describe things that...really probably won't help others much. Similar to using words to describe the actual mechanics of walking. If you haven't 'felt' how to walk, those words aren't going to be much use learning the skill.

Im starting to think that in-person lessons by someone good at providing them would be hands down the best way to learn the basics of a disc golf swing. Not a very revelatory observation, but even I have had luck getting things to click with people, and I am no SW22 lol.

 

[Sard0nyx]

For sure. When I was first starting out, I remember staying up many nights reading deep into the tomes of the DGR forum posts lol.

I see exactly what Blake was trying to do. SW22 took it to another level. Both of them just want people to grok something core to the swing as the primary mission in most of what they say/do. SW22 has a very remarkable ability to take things way further as well, but I really do think Blake was onto something trying to distill some of this.

Some of the discussion here lately seems to be going in way the opposite direction, where people are trying to use words to describe things that...really probably won't help others much. Similar to using words to describe the actual mechanics of walking. If you haven't 'felt' how to walk, those words aren't going to be much use learning the skill.

Im starting to think that in-person lessons by someone good at providing them would be hands down the best way to learn the basics of a disc golf swing. Not a very revelatory observation, but even I have had luck getting things to click with people, and I am no SW22 lol.

I feel that modern disc golf teaching has moved away from what Blake was teaching on the old DGR forums. He emphasized greatly on the wrist and arm motions that would make up 70% of the power behind a disc golf throw. These days most teachers focus on the whole body and positions which allows for effortless 300-350ft power. Unfortunately without hours of going through those old threads and tons of field work, body positions can only take you so far. I haven't been fortunate enough to get there yet, but I feel like I'm getting close. I get those throws every so often that fly much further without anymore effort. And I feel the difference. It's just a matter of timing that wrist and upper arm.

This is in no way disparaging modern disc golf teaching. They have found a way to give everyone enough distance to be competitive and have fun. But Blake called his teaching the graduate level of form. And rightly so. Since getting that snap will allow you to throw easily to the mid 400s and farther.

 

[RowingBoats]

I feel that modern disc golf teaching has moved away from what Blake was teaching on the old DGR forums. He emphasized greatly on the wrist and arm motions that would make up 70% of the power behind a disc golf throw. These days most teachers focus on the whole body and positions which allows for effortless 300-350ft power. Unfortunately without hours of going through those old threads and tons of field work, body positions can only take you so far. I haven't been fortunate enough to get there yet, but I feel like I'm getting close. I get those throws every so often that fly much further without anymore effort. And I feel the difference. It's just a matter of timing that wrist and upper arm.

This is in no way disparaging modern disc golf teaching. They have found a way to give everyone enough distance to be competitive and have fun. But Blake called his teaching the graduate level of form. And rightly so. Since getting that snap will allow you to throw easily to the mid 400s and farther.

This is about where I am at also.

I really do understand why people want to nerd out on this stuff lol, I'm in no way innocent of it. I just now understand that the actual revelations that caused me to have a decent swing were very simple, and focusing on extreme details before you understand the main goal of the swing is a rabbit hole that people get lost in.

I can never be sure because I can't delete my own progress, but I believe that a TON of the body mechanics to add power to a decent snap/hit are very intuitive. Once you understand where you are trying to channel the most power, you already know how to build on that, or I did to a large degree.

I am not at all saying that the insanely verbose and detailed attempts to nail down the minutia are useless, but the order that a newer player should attempt to learn the swing, imo, would start by understanding the hit (but with better drills than the beto drill).

 

[Brychanus]

I feel that modern disc golf teaching has moved away from what Blake was teaching on the old DGR forums. He emphasized greatly on the wrist and arm motions that would make up 70% of the power behind a disc golf throw. These days most teachers focus on the whole body and positions which allows for effortless 300-350ft power. Unfortunately without hours of going through those old threads and tons of field work, body positions can only take you so far. I haven't been fortunate enough to get there yet, but I feel like I'm getting close. I get those throws every so often that fly much further without anymore effort. And I feel the difference. It's just a matter of timing that wrist and upper arm.

This is in no way disparaging modern disc golf teaching. They have found a way to give everyone enough distance to be competitive and have fun. But Blake called his teaching the graduate level of form. And rightly so. Since getting that snap will allow you to throw easily to the mid 400s and farther.

This is about where I am at also.

I really do understand why people want to nerd out on this stuff lol, I'm in no way innocent of it. I just now understand that the actual revelations that caused me to have a decent swing were very simple, and focusing on extreme details before you understand the main goal of the swing is a rabbit hole that people get lost in.

I can never be sure because I can't delete my own progress, but I believe that a TON of the body mechanics to add power to a decent snap/hit are very intuitive. Once you understand where you are trying to channel the most power, you already know how to build on that, or I did to a large degree.

I am not at all saying that the insanely verbose and detailed attempts to nail down the minutia are useless, but the order that a newer player should attempt to learn the swing, imo, would start by understanding the hit (but with better drills than the beto drill).

I agree that it's much easier to show many things in person.

I obviously love thinking about the mechanics and minutiae, but coaching it in many contexts should probably be completely different. The balance of what is natural and what needs specific intervention is different for everyone (not just talking about my own experience).

I've noticed in person when helping brand new players that starting with the ideas of the hit, that it's a swing like other sports, and that the swing is not straight or flat seems to click quickly. Then you can get right to swinging and see what's working or not.

I met a new player Sunday and he was already understanding how to swing with his shoulder, load the bow, and lead with his weight by hole 9. Being able to see a person in 3D, show them the motion, and then physically put hands on them to help them know how to move their body is huge.

On the idea of graduate-level teachings, the Blake T & Beto teachings I think are getting it right in terms of late arm leverage. I am still learning about it when I return to one leg throws. If there is something that Blake T in particular has said that you think is not covered in this thread I'd ask it to please be bumped here.

The only thing I would want to add to keep in mind for new players to that idea of the secret technique is that using the center of gravity & leading with the weight using the leg and ground are prerequisites. Curious if anyone disagrees with that. A lot of people & especially those without sports backgrounds really seem to struggle with that and just strong arm the disc until they focus on it specifically.

@RowingBoats and for anyone else: Also on coaching, curious to hear what you think is most natural and what you'd say to yourself looking back.

 

[seedlings]

[snip]…the order that a newer player should attempt to learn the swing, imo, would start by understanding the hit (but with better drills than the beto drill).

Do you have a favorite new drill for the hit? Hit isn't talked about as much as weight shift, hips, nose angle, etc

 

[Sard0nyx]

I agree that it's much easier to show many things in person.

I obviously love thinking about the mechanics and minutiae, but coaching it in many contexts should probably be completely different. The balance of what is natural and what needs specific intervention is different for everyone (not just talking about my own experience).

I've noticed in person when helping brand new players that starting with the ideas of the hit, that it's a swing like other sports, and that the swing is not straight or flat seems to click quickly. Then you can get right to swinging and see what's working or not.

I met a new player Sunday and he was already understanding how to swing with his shoulder, load the bow, and lead with his weight by hole 9. Being able to see a person in 3D, show them the motion, and then physically put hands on them to help them know how to move their body is huge.

On the idea of graduate-level teachings, the Blake T & Beto teachings I think are getting it right in terms of late arm leverage. I am still learning about it when I return to one leg throws. If there is something that Blake T in particular has said that you think is not covered in this thread I'd ask it to please be bumped here.

The only thing I would want to add to keep in mind for new players to that idea of the secret technique is that using the center of gravity & leading with the weight using the leg and ground are prerequisites. Curious if anyone disagrees with that. A lot of people & especially those without sports backgrounds really seem to struggle with that and just strong arm the disc until they focus on it specifically.

@RowingBoats and for anyone else: Also on coaching, curious to hear what you think is most natural and what you'd say to yourself looking back.

I'll put some excerpts I've found in my DGR trawling. They have cast a new perspective on how I view the disc golf throw and where we should start. Unfortunately, it seems that a tiny fraction of people can actually learn it. I've noticed mentions of things that I never see on my throws (aka I'm not snapping the disc yet): Heavy disc feel, palm ejection feeling, a different sound of the disc as it leaves and displaces air, discs flying differently because of increased spin. Sorry for the big data dump, but I think there's some things out there that the majority of players just aren't seeing. It's the separation between AM distance and Pro Distance. And it's not as simple as getting your lower body in the correct positions and weight-shifting properly.

"-most body motions are over-rated. i've found a 20 degree body rotation with no reach back can still yield a 275'+ throw with a small arm twitch and using no leg power. increasing the body rotation on reach back to 90 degrees seems to add about 40' (~15%). adding 18"+ of reach back seems to add about 25' (~9%). adding a full run up adds about 40' (~15%). those three things together are noticeable but if you work from a 275' baseline with a midrange disc, a full body rotation, full reach back, and utilizing the legs are responsible for roughly 27.6% of the throw. read as: about 10" of motion mainly focusing on the wrist, hand, and fingers is roughly 72.4% of the throw." - Secret Technique Thread

"all of this stuff (disc golf, hammering, and punching) requires you have a defined stopping point. you need the stopping point to trigger the levers, accelerate, and deliver force. it is only by working around said stopping point that the recoil happens." - Incomplete Secret Technique Thread

"people usually fail at the difficult concepts because they lack the diligence to see them through all the way. it's like they expect the timing to magically appear one day while they are playing a round.

it took dan like 4000 practice throws in the span of 10 days with the SOLE focus of those throws being trying to "hit it," and that was after i had imparted every bit of knowledge i had on the subject to him. he wasn't playing rounds, these were going to a field and throwing 4000+ times simply trying to learn to snap a disc hard. it paid off.

it took me around 5500-6000 practice throws to learn to hit it across ~25 days but i had a lot less knowledge/resources available to me at that time.

for people to put this into perspective, 4000 field throws is more than most people do in an entire year, for some, it's more like what they would do in 5 years. 4000 practice field throws in 10 days = 400 practice throws a day. if i remember what he told me correctly, the first few days he did over 300 right pec drill throws per day.

i wasn't holding his hand during any of it. he did all of those throws on his own and then called me up and was like "i'm throwing 500' now, can you teach me to throw 200'? i'm overthrowing everything by a mile."

i'm very confident that after 4000 practice field throws, most people will "get" the majority of these concepts. not everyone will be throwing 500', but the chances of reaching that increase significantly the more you practice. with some of the things i have written lately, i wouldn't doubt if it was possible in 2000 practice field throws

my advice to players looking to up their game as quickly as possible is to do 4-8 hours of field work for every round they play. i would also wager that maybe 1 in 50 players is willing to do this.

when people give up on the right pec drill it's because they threw 25 throws and sucked at it and quit. for those who stick with it there's usually a noticeable breakthrough at around the 200 throw mark.

what i've learned over the years is that most requests for videos come from people who aren't willing to put the serious work in. they quit after 25 poor right pec throws and reverted back to their old form. they quit after 25 working from the hit back throws and reverted back to their old form. they gave up on throwing the pen before they quit grip-locking the pen. they learned to snap a towel but never transferred any of that to their disc golf throw.

i'm searching for the magical technique to teach, to make snap attainable in 200 practice throws, but unless people get out in the field and wear their fingers to the bone throwing with specifics in mind, make their break-through, and then give feedback upon what their magic trick was, it's difficult to do this." - Coherent Article Thread

"IMHO, do not watch videos to learn this!

when it comes to body, you learn by doing. when i was learning this, i did not watch a video, when i did i saw nothing even when Blake was sitting right there trying to get me to see it. after i learned how to hit it, i watched the videos and THEN i could see it very clearly its like "oh yeah!".

it is not like one day overnight taking a slew of information and trying it in the field and all of a sudden boom "sweet!", no it was what Blake posted, 400+ throws per day, 4000+ in 10 days of doing one particular thing, focusing only on the "hit", and nothing more.

I was not preoccupied with putting, touch, going to the course to see if it happens, i was out in that field every single day. i will tell you if you want to throw far, you have to want it, and you have to want it bad, and the only way you are going to get it is spending countless hours throwing differently then how you are now.

you absolutely have to throw differently, you cannot throw the same at all, if you do, then obviously you will be at plateaus for the rest of your life. i can not stress enough how much work and exausting hours both physically and mentally you have to put in. half of those 400+ throws a day were from standstills of right pec throws, very boring but necessary. but my god you finally hit it, even if its just once, you wont even look back youll be like "i want more" and if you want more your going to be more willing to work harder for it, because you know what it feels like and your gonna love it. before you dont know, so i dont put it past anyone to not want it bad enough to not give up on it right away.

so make your decision if you want to commit to it right now, or if the tiresome hours scare you." - Dan Beto in the Coherent Article Thread

"the last plateau before big power shifts every few years with technology.

for golf shot D:
1993-1997: ~340'. Gazelle, Cheetah, Polaris LS, Cyclone
1998-2000: ~350'. Eagle, Teebird, XL, JLS
2001-2002: ~360'. Valkyrie, XS, Original Beast, Wildcat
2003-2004: ~380'. Orc, Starfire, Flash, Crush
2005-2007: ~400'. Wraith, Surge
2008-present: ~420'. Destroyer, etc.

these power levels are all roughly equal. that is, if you peak out with a controlled golf shot with a wraith around 400', you will probably peak out with an eagle in the vicinity of 350' on controlled golf shots.

ways to add d:
1. learn to throw a distance line.
2. throw a longer disc.
3. learn to throw with more snap.

#3 is the only REAL distance increase... that is, a distance increase that isn't already available to everyone else without changing their technique.

#1 is just learning a new shot.
#2 is a technology increase. for people at this plateau, an R Pro Boss sub-165g is probably the longest disc on the market. it will fly 25-50' farther than a destroyer.

i don't think anyone should ever question other aspects of the game while trying to discourage people from throwing farther. those who don't think throwing far is important don't see the true advantage to length. basic summary: you exert more control on a disc when you are throwing it in a range you can easily reach. someone who can throw 500' and throws a destroyer 430' will exert much greater control over the disc than someone who peaks out with a destroyer at 430' that is trying to throw it 430'. someone who can throw a roc 360' will exert much greater control over the disc when throwing it 300' than someone who peaks out with their roc at 300'. etc.

this advantage is pretty huge. the longer thrower has easier throws on everything inside their range than someone who is pushing the edge of their range. e.g. if player A has 16 holes with drives within their range and player B only has 10 holes with drives within their range on the same course, player B has to play much better to hang with player A and has no chance if player A is playing really well.

basically, to break this plateau you have the choice of working on technique until you can throw with more snap and probably f'ing up your game big time in the short run at the hope of long term distance gains or you can experiment with making the disc fly farther given your power level."

 

[Sard0nyx]

I'll leave these here. I could watch his form all day. It's so smooth.

 

[Sad2980]

I'll put some excerpts I've found in my DGR trawling. They have cast a new perspective on how I view the disc golf throw and where we should start. Unfortunately, it seems that a tiny fraction of people can actually learn it. I've noticed mentions of things that I never see on my throws (aka I'm not snapping the disc yet): Heavy disc feel, palm ejection feeling, a different sound of the disc as it leaves and displaces air, discs flying differently because of increased spin. Sorry for the big data dump, but I think there's some things out there that the majority of players just aren't seeing. It's the separation between AM distance and Pro Distance. And it's not as simple as getting your lower body in the correct positions and weight-shifting

Im glad to see you post this. I have been having the same thoughts lately. It's nice to know someone out there is having the same ideas about form and learning.

 

[Sheep]

Per the topic that crept in.

Teaching somebody in person is so much easier and so much harder all at the same time.

The ability to frame by frame video over and over, stop and think for a moment, then describe the issues going on is just absolutely gold.

In a field with a person, it's hard, cause cell phones suck to see things, etc. You gotta use slow motion at that point because phones dont frame by frame well, and i hate slow motion for form reviews. Though it has its place in the field.

But the gold comes from being able to let somebody watch their form on a screen.
Then going to the tee pad or what not and over exaggerating their stupidity they are doing and letting it click so they can see how silly whatever they are doing is.

Then showing them a correction with explanation right there and helping them dial that in right there over and over again.


When it comes to form reviews online, the honest to best way i've found is short video clips explaining it.
The problem is, Its not worthwhile to edit the video in a way to show other people whats going on and all this other stuff.

So the next answer is live streaming it.
Just in a less crap way than everyone else is doing it.
And I have everything set up to do it. but I'm burnt out on form reviews.

I have... 5 sitting in a chat right now to do? I just dont want to.

 

[seedlings]

I'll put some excerpts I've found in my DGR trawling.

I like this one from Dan Beato - I've never heard anything like this since I started playing in 2019.

"i notice when i am teaching people that most people just let go of the disc rather than keeping their hand closed through the hit.

the disc has to be forced out of the fingers and what happens and what it really feels like is a nudge off your palm like it bounced away from your palm.

when i hit them hard my pinky, ring, and middle finger get forced off the rim and than the disc rips off my index finger with extreme heaviness and force and then ejects off my palm and the feeling is effortless.

an easy way for me to see if people are forcing the disc out is if their hand is resting afterwards with closed fingers, almost like a fist. in order to get this force with the hand your fingers have no choice but to close and slap against the palm because you would grip the hardest at the last split second of the release like if you were to practice snapping your wrist open your hand ends like a fist if you are doing it correctly.

when i rip them hard i have a very high level of conciousness of what i am going to do and thats clench my hand down like a mfer when i release it, and before than it is not very tight at all."

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9959&start=165

 

[RowingBoats]

Do you have a favorite new drill for the hit? Hit isn't talked about as much as weight shift, hips, nose angle, etc

No, I can't really conceive of one that you can just put into words either. Blake wrote a TON of words about feeling snap, and I don't know how much reading all of it helped me in the end either lol!

One of the phrases here that did end up getting me to understand was SW22 saying something like 'it feels like a jab'. That made no sense when I first read it, but exploring what he meant by this was one of the things that made me get it.

I also think there are two different things being discussed here with regards to how people should teach/learn, perfection and basic competence. I do not at all disagree with the efficacy of slow-mo form breakdowns for perfecting a swing. I do not think they are the most efficient way to bring someone from 150' sky hyzer to 350' leopard turnover. Someone who begins to grasp snapping/hitting the disc can make that jump almost instantaneously, and to me that is what Blake wanted to say and assist with.

I'm sure my own form could get roasted pretty hard by people good at these frame by frames, but I can toss low 400's from a standstill without using tremendous athletic effort, and never feeling a twinge of injury, so Im pretty happy here right now.

Took me about a year to get around there distance wise, and if I could go back and teach myself, I would solidify that 'feels like a jab' concept as a priority, and not go down too many detailed rabbit holes before that point. There was just a very rapid evolution in my swing once I started channeling my efforts into a hard snap. This change also was a massive relief because prior to it I had 'swing-thoughts' that make me cringe so hard now, and it was all so much more simple lol.

Then again I could be wrong about how I learned, and what actually worked lol. I could be underestimating the benefit of ingesting so many words and videos.

 

[Brychanus]

No, I can't really conceive of one that you can just put into words either. Blake wrote a TON of words about feeling snap, and I don't know how much reading all of it helped me in the end either lol!

One of the phrases here that did end up getting me to understand was SW22 saying something like 'it feels like a jab'. That made no sense when I first read it, but exploring what he meant by this was one of the things that made me get it.

I also think there are two different things being discussed here with regards to how people should teach/learn, perfection and basic competence. I do not at all disagree with the efficacy of slow-mo form breakdowns for perfecting a swing. I do not think they are the most efficient way to bring someone from 150' sky hyzer to 350' leopard turnover. Someone who begins to grasp snapping/hitting the disc can make that jump almost instantaneously, and to me that is what Blake wanted to say and assist with.

I'm sure my own form could get roasted pretty hard by people good at these frame by frames, but I can toss low 400's from a standstill without using tremendous athletic effort, and never feeling a twinge of injury, so Im pretty happy here right now.

Took me about a year to get around there distance wise, and if I could go back and teach myself, I would solidify that 'feels like a jab' concept as a priority, and not go down too many detailed rabbit holes before that point. There was just a very rapid evolution in my swing once I started channeling my efforts into a hard snap. This change also was a massive relief because prior to it I had 'swing-thoughts' that make me cringe so hard now, and it was all so much more simple lol.

Then again I could be wrong about how I learned, and what actually worked lol. I could be underestimating the benefit of ingesting so many words and videos.

Do you think it is possible Beto and you slogged yourselves into effective one leg throw mechanics getting late acceleration burst/snap by feeling it out?

There are people out there who do get that late part of the chain and acceleration burst and throw far without striding at all. Many of them have trouble of some kind with weight shift mechanics.

Regardless of how much of it is hindsight, I agree that recently there's been much less talk about that.

On feel, my longest one leggers with snap do feel a lot like a jab or backfist. Also swinging a sword or a fighting baton. Those are all cases where there isn't an object or the object is fairly light. The easy quick late acceleration is where the magic happens in those actions too and that's how I learned them.

I keep going back to one leg to work on it because all that other action is spoiled without that late kinetic burst.

 

[seedlings]

Do you think it is possible Beto and you slogged yourselves into effective one leg throw mechanics getting late acceleration burst/snap by feeling it out?

There are people out there who do get that late part of the chain and acceleration burst and throw far without striding at all. Many of them have trouble of some kind with weight shift mechanics.

Regardless of how much of it is hindsight, I agree that recently there's been much less talk about that.

On feel, my longest one leggers with snap do feel a lot like a jab or backfist. Also swinging a sword or a fighting baton. Those are all cases where there isn't an object or the object is fairly light. The easy quick late acceleration is where the magic happens in those actions too and that's how I learned them.

I keep going back to one leg to work on it because all that other action is spoiled without that late kinetic burst.

Do you consciously/unconsciously grip the disc super hard at the jab/hit/backfist (as Beato describes)? If so, is it really a last moment gripping hard, or a last moment wrist-pop-forward? Both?

 

[RowingBoats]

Do you consciously/unconsciously grip the disc super hard at the jab/hit/backfist (as Beato describes)? If so, is it really a last moment gripping hard, or a last moment wrist-pop-forward? Both?

Both, because those two concepts are linked. Clamping down with your fist is just part of the physiological way our anatomy adds acceleration to that lever.

I also play drums, and have for my entire life...I wonder if that is part of why this particular aspect of the swing felt super intuitive to me as well, once I concentrated on it. There is a whole lot of crazy acceleration down the arm to the fingers playing drums.

 

[timothy42b]

Do you consciously/unconsciously grip the disc super hard at the jab/hit/backfist (as Beato describes)? If so, is it really a last moment gripping hard, or a last moment wrist-pop-forward? Both?

And if you grip it super hard, but haven't learned the mechanics to throw superhard, isn't it just going to stay in your hand?

This thread makes me think I know absolutely nothing about throwing. But I've never done more than 100 Beato drills a day, guess I'm a slacker.

 

[Sard0nyx]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108131&highlight=Rail

Also looking back at tons of HUB threads has a lot of good info. Just need to figure out how to incorporate it into our throws. I'd love to throw a mid 380' on a flat line