30' basket to tree guideline (A tier vs..) guideline

[EricW]

I heard this statement over the weekend while laying out some alternate positions and wanted to confirm it's mostly an exaggerated rumor, not a hard rule.

Someone said "It can't be an A tier course if there's a tree within the circle".

I call BS. Is there such a rule? Is there a course inspection prior to sanctioning an A tier?

I feel it has to vary based on the actual character of the hole and landscape. Contextually in the open and sparse courses in my area, there are not enough nor large enough trees to control the line of play and sometimes the only way to shape an approach to the target is to block out line near the basket.

For example, we have a hole with a short wall of 15' tall junipers inline with the tee box; basket A on the left, basket B on the right creating two different approaches. If the basket was 30' from the nearest tree branch, a player could throw a normal right to left to the right basket and a high left to right (spike) to the left basket barely taking the trees into account.

• there's no definition of an "A" tier course
• isn't "A" tier was tied directly to the amount of added tournament money
• even if it's a guideline or suggested, there has to be some context
• possible reason 1: so there's a fair line of flight to the circle
• possible reason 2: so players can't just stuff it into the tree and take a drop right in the circle
• possible reason 3: so a player gets a putt with the circle
• possible reason 4: to protect the trees

(3) "so a player get's a putt or out within the circle" is referenced below in the PDGA Course Guidelines (from Section 4: Hole notes)

...There should not be too many objects within 33 ft (10m) of each target. Any object near the target should not be so large that a player cannot find an unobstructed flight path by stretching sideways, throwing from a low stance, throwing through or over the top of the
object...

 

[EricW]

Sorry, should have posted this in Course Design. Can it be moved?

 

[notroman]

There are no rules about tree coverage on the green when it comes to any PDGA sanctioned events. I think the only rule for A-tiers is that all baskets have to be the same manufacturer/model and must be compliant with the PDGA tech specs.

There are a lot of people that will disagree with course designs that include trees/obstacles within the circle, but there is absolutely nothing in the rules that says it can't be done. If that was the case, you wouldn't have any big tournaments at DeLaveaga, Maple Hill, Renny Gold, and many more great courses. Heck, look at hole 15 at the USDGC - the green is a jungle!

 

[DavidSauls]

Even Worlds allows trees within 10 meters.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Back in the 80s and into the 90s, some players who came from the ball golf world felt it wasn't appropriate to have a tree in the 10m green. However, that perception eventually evolved to the point of view that a player should be able to stretch and access at least one clear airway to the basket from every point within the 10m circle but it could be over, under, around or through foliage or obstacles in the green.

 

[JC17393]

Some players would prefer the 10-meter circle (heck, entire holes) be dead flat, all baskets installed at uniform height, and zero obstacles. I call that boring as all get out.

I find greens like #15 at Winthrop Gold to be excellent tests of skill (though admittedly it is an extreme case). They put emphasis on placement and accuracy of the approach as well as the putt. Not unlike ball golf greens with their ridges and valleys and slopes...three different shots could land in three different spots all exactly 6 feet from the hole and require three distinctly different putts in terms of angle, line, and speed. Trees and other obstacles inside the 10-meter circle is the best way we have of replicating that sort of challenge. Landing 15 feet to the left of the basket shouldn't necessarily give the player the exact same putt (angle, stance, speed, etc) that he'd have from 15 feet to the right.

 

[dickparker]

^^*edit Damn, in before me .

Hole #15 at Winthrop University would probably debunk this rumor.

 

[eegor]

The only A-tier played in the Dallas area is played on Harry Myers and Audubon. Both courses have trees near baskets on multiple holes. The courses would be far too easy if they weren't.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

What an awful rule that would be.. I don't think there would be a single 'legal' green on bald/golden eagle and there's no way you could convince me to comply...

 

[Steve West]

Apparently, DiscGolfPark does not subscribe to the 10m of open air theory, either. Good for them.

 

[kerplunk]

Seeing guys can putts through trees is the closest things to bolf putting we get to see. I remember a sweet McBeth one from this year, but don't remember the tourney or hole.

 

[Qikly]

Even Worlds allows trees within 10 meters.

Yeah, Knob Hill and Moraine, two of the Worlds courses, repeatedly break this "rule."

 

[sidewinder22]

Guideline is not a Rule.

 

[RobA]

Apparently, DiscGolfPark does not subscribe to the 10m of open air theory, either. Good for them.

It may just be the perspective from the photo, but that green looks very punishing. There is no way to the basket at all from that vantage point.

 

[Steve West]

It may just be the perspective from the photo, but that green looks very punishing. There is no way to the basket at all from that vantage point.

I made the putt from there. That's the reason I took a picture.

Gator over the top right, thrown flat with lots of spin so it floats left on the way down.

 

[RobA]

I made the putt from there. That's the reason I took a picture.

Gator over the top right, thrown flat with lots of spin so it floats left on the way down.

It must just be the picture then, I couldn't see that route in the frame. Nice putt, btw.

 

[Jenga54]

I made the putt from there. That's the reason I took a picture.

Gator over the top right, thrown flat with lots of spin so it floats left on the way down.

i bet you're more excited with making that putt around an obstacle, and got some high fives from card mates... more than you would be on a skinny basket in the open... or one with bars on it....

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

However, that perception eventually evolved to the point of view that a player should be able to stretch and access at least one clear airway to the basket from every point within the 10m circle but it could be over, under, around or through foliage or obstacles in the green.

I don't necessarily agree with this either... I imagine an otherwise wide open hole with a bush on the right side. A well placed shot lands within putting range on the left side, nice drive you got a birdie. A poor shot lands in/behind the bush, you have to toss it out for a look at a putt, bad drive/good recovery putt you got a par, bad drive/bad putt you got a bogey.

 

[Jenga54]

I don't necessarily agree with this either... I imagine an otherwise wide open hole with a bush on the right side. A well placed shot lands within putting range on the left side, nice drive you got a birdie. A poor shot lands in/behind the bush, you have to toss it out for a look at a putt, bad drive/good recovery putt you got a par, bad drive/bad putt you got a bogey.

:thmbup: usually there's a slight chance even at the "impossible" angle - like when you're down 2 strokes with 2 holes left to play - you go for it. makes good TV opcorn:

 

[Cgkdisc]

I don't necessarily agree with this either... I imagine an otherwise wide open hole with a bush on the right side. A well placed shot lands within putting range on the left side, nice drive you got a birdie. A poor shot lands in/behind the bush, you have to toss it out for a look at a putt, bad drive/good recovery putt you got a par, bad drive/bad putt you got a bogey.

There's never a stymie position once a ball is on the green in golf even though there's an occasional position where a concave green edge makes it so the ball has to be chipped over the fringe on a direct line. If in fact the 10m is our DG green as it is for the moment, I believe a player should have a puncher's chance with some sort of flight line to the basket even if it requires a contorted stance. But we're (GDT) open for redefining the equipment and rules for putting if it gets tested and proven to be a better direction. But you'll find veteran designers including me who would find it hard to consider any option that might produce a full stymie in some new putting environment unless it really turned out to be preferred by top pros.