[Axiom] Axiom Paradox

[strunk flugget]

I'm still working to get a feel for flat full power throws and how much hyzer I need to get a slow fade right under full power. I don't think there is any amount of hyzer to have this thing flip to flat under full power. Where i really like this disc is for the shots I used to use a beat up proxy to hit. With less effort I can get it to flip to flat and glide for days. I have a couple A2's that I use for overstable approach shots under 150'...but if i dont have the path available for the right to left flight of the A2, the paradox comes out...I have been able to hit some nice touch shots under 150' that flip to flat and ride it the whole way, or even turn over and fade right a bit. That, as a player who lacks a good forehand, has been a part of my game that I have been missing.

That said...I'm also not sold on if this disc will stay in my bag, I kind of want to try the uplink when it comes out. But I will say the paradox is growing on me. I find myself reaching for it more than i expected i would after my first few throws.

 

[klodkrawler05]

I've been digging mine for sub 250' holes. Still really getting the feel for it and have to remind myself it's not my Archer and I can't just rip it full power for a long turnover but for my arm speed and throw style it seems to have just enough stability to glide out and land flat while holding a turn the entire flight. On shorter 175-200' shots it'll just gently turn the whole flight, really makes for an easy low power approach disc on those spots where I'd otherwise have to use my horrible FH with a straight disc.

 

[keiaem]

Yep, this has really stepped up my game as I don't have to use my shaky FH that much. It also bombs on hyzerflips in tailwinds especially. Biggest problem right now is not to over use it just because I like it so much and some other disc would be the better solution

 

[Monocacy]

Played a round with a 170 gram Neutron Paradox in the bag. Interesting disc. For me, the Paradox will compete with the Star Wombat3 for a slot in the bag. More testing needed but here are initial impressions from a noodle-armed thrower.

Paradox and Hex fly a similar distance for me. Both are long for midranges. Paradox was not immediately intuitive as far as how much hyzer and height to use. I found it to be moderately understable at my limited distance.

With my standard slight hyzer release Paradox flipped up to flat, drifted gently right, and with enough height finished with a small late fade. If I threw it flat and hard, it turned significantly. I need more throws to find out whether there is a smooth transition between those two throw shapes.

Paradox and Hex both feel similar in the hand, which is nice. I did not get a chance to test the Paradox sidearm, but the shallow rim feels like it would come out cleanly.

 

[Monocacy]

After some more time with the Paradox, I plan to stick with the Wombat3 in the understable midrange slot. Paradox is significantly understable, bordering on a trick shot disc. And the Hex is definitely longer vs. Paradox under most circumstances, because I can lean on the Hex with much more confidence.

I will probably keep fooling around with the Paradox because it is kinda fun to throw, and sometimes bad throws are me rather than the disc. But if one turns over deep into thick rough, I probably won't spend a lot of time looking for it.

 

[hawgdriver]

I've thought about picking one up, but Tursas is probably as far as I want to go towards investing skill in a flippy disc. I had a wolf for a while, and actually liked it for the unique things it could do, but it just takes so much practice for me to master a trick type disc. I'm not even good at the ones I throw constantly....

 

[gooberau]

My Paradox arrived this morning. I took it out for a trial. It is very under stable to me. I really need to work with it to tame it.

 

[strunk flugget]

After some more time with the Paradox, I plan to stick with the Wombat3 in the understable midrange slot. Paradox is significantly understable, bordering on a trick shot disc. And the Hex is definitely longer vs. Paradox under most circumstances, because I can lean on the Hex with much more confidence.

I will probably keep fooling around with the Paradox because it is kinda fun to throw, and sometimes bad throws are me rather than the disc. But if one turns over deep into thick rough, I probably won't spend a lot of time looking for it.

This is how I am feeling some days. Even with the steepest hyzer I can realistically put on the disc and maybe 75-80% power I can get it to flip up and just drift right all the way. I am hoping some of the shops around me bought the gyropalooza pack because at this point I'd like to try the uplink.

 

[klodkrawler05]

Isn't the point of a disc like this that turns during it's entire flight or that you can throw it on hyzer and it flips up/out and then turns the rest of it's flight?

I always think of a disc like this as the answer to no forehand. so if someone is throwing a stable forehand approach/midrange or a stable opposite hand bh, I'm reaching for this disc. I'm not talking about holes where you can get away with throwing something straight and being edge of circle, I'm talking holes where a big finish is required.

 

[Monocacy]

Isn't the point of a disc like this that turns during it's entire flight or that you can throw it on hyzer and it flips up/out and then turns the rest of it's flight?

It would appear so.

I always think of a disc like this as the answer to no forehand. so if someone is throwing a stable forehand approach/midrange or a stable opposite hand bh, I'm reaching for this disc. I'm not talking about holes where you can get away with throwing something straight and being edge of circle, I'm talking holes where a big finish is required.

Agreed, Paradox would serve this role well. For me, I can get similar backhand distance with a less-dramatic finish by throwing beat-up putters, or I can just toss the Hex sidearm.

If someone does not throw sidearm, I could see the Paradox being useful. I am not saying it is a bad disc - it performs as advertised - but I do not currently see a role for the Paradox in my smallish bag.

 

[strunk flugget]

Isn't the point of a disc like this that turns during it's entire flight or that you can throw it on hyzer and it flips up/out and then turns the rest of it's flight?

Absolutely and it does this exceptionally well. For me my problem is that it's so touchy. I'm nothing spectacular, I just hit 400' for the first time today. But I'm finding if I don't get the angle right or the power right it's unforgiving. There are some days I love it and others where it just seems to be too much.

All that to say, it's a good disc and easily the most understable disc I've ever thrown. But for me it might be too understable which makes me want to try the 5 5 -3 1 uplink that's coming

 

[uncle pennybags]

I don't have a huge amount of time with the Paradox, but I think I like it. I'm LHBH only, so I have a real need for turnover discs. I have a couple of shorter tee shots that turn left the whole way, this disc seems like a good contender for that job. I think my biggest challenge will be to find the angle/power ratio that turns without the cut roller action on the ground.

 

[HyooMac]

I understand the risk of turning and burning understable discs, and it might be the most frustrating error: to feel like I really got all of it, just to see it overturn into the woods on the right. But I'm reminded of some teachers and clinics that say you should almost never be throwing at full power (because full power increases the risk of wild shots, bad timing, etc.). I try to remember this, especially when I'm throwing new discs: "how does it perform at 70% - 80% power?" If I build a bag that way, there's almost always an alternative for those situations when I feel like I really need to rip it: a higher speed, heavier, or more stable disc. Then it's MY fault for asking too much of a disc, or for expecting myself to be able to put an crazy amount of hyzer in oder to throw it.

 

[Puckstopper]

Sooooo they have too much inventory? :\

Seems like almost everyone overbought on the commemorative Envy. MVP really hurt retailers by not putting SOME kind of limit on those...

 

[Puckstopper]

...Paradox is significantly understable, bordering on a trick shot disc. And the Hex is definitely longer vs. Paradox under most circumstances, because I can lean on the Hex with much more confidence.

Both of these are fair points. The Paradox (to me anyway) is the polar opposite of the Tilt and Stego, but will eventually fill the same role: Ride around in my bag and hopefully just sit there all round. If it does come out, it's to execute some crazy, low percentage shot selection that no other disc could even contemplate pulling off.

In the meantime though, the Paradox is just tons of fun. I find myself trying it on all kinds of shots that it shouldn't necessarily be good at, just to see what it's capable of. One example is an S shaped hole that requires a right turn quickly, some carry, and then a dump back left to have any opportunity at a 2. Usually, I just play for 3 because getting frisky with a flexed Zone runs the chance of it crashing back too soon and taking a 4. The Paradox is opening up the option to throw from a deep hyzer, have it flip around the corner, ride straight and fade back just enough. I played this hole on a loop with the one next to it an parked the hole twice, missed long/right 10-15 times and been in positions for an easy 3 on another 10 or so shots. Overall, the percentage of opportunities for birdie/par were way better this way than the anny-flex approach I'd been using.

I really think if I put the time in to figure out the Paradox's nuances it'll be a winner!

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Nice to hear a more positive view on the paradox.. I'm hoping for one next week from my honey for my birthday. I told her to pick one for me. The link I sent her was for a 175 orange.. Either way I'm hoping for "fun" but we'll see how "fun"ctional it is.

 

[strunk flugget]

I went to do some field work and the paradox can get every bit as far as my hex but it needs more side to side room. I really like the disc for right handers and up shots because how well it floats. Even low powered I can get it to glide right. It's a very smooth disc when thrown correctly. For me personally it hovers right on the edge of being to under stable so I'd rarely trust it with full power. But it serves a good purpose and will stay in my bag for the time being.

 

[hawgdriver]

Both of these are fair points. The Paradox (to me anyway) is the polar opposite of the Tilt and Stego, but will eventually fill the same role: Ride around in my bag and hopefully just sit there all round. If it does come out, it's to execute some crazy, low percentage shot selection that no other disc could even contemplate pulling off.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the utility of the Stego. So this comment has me thinking.

But one thing I like about the Stego is the minimal ground play variance. With a Paradox I'd be concerned about cut-roll. Am I wrong here? Maybe I need to just get one and mess with it. I love the idea of an 'orthogonal' disc.

 

[strunk flugget]

But one thing I like about the Stego is the minimal ground play variance. With a Paradox I'd be concerned about cut-roll. Am I wrong here?

You are not wrong and that's sort of been my point in this thread. If you are a beginning with low arm speeds this disc will be awesome. If you are more advanced it's still a ton of fun but it requires a lot of control. There was a period where I wanted to just rip everything. Basically I wanted to have a disc I could throw flat at 90% power and hit any line I needed. For me the paradox definitely requires decent angle control and power control.

That said the cut rollers only happen when my power is too high and my angle was too flat. I'm using this disc for sub 300' tunnels in the woods, downhills, and tailwind drives. Obviously anything right handed will have me reaching for the disc. There are two holes on the course I played yesterday, one is 140ft to the right and the other is about 200ft to the right. I used the paradox on both and with the right power and angle it just keeps gliding to the right and settles down. I think for me it's becoming more and more valuable but it maybe has a steeper learning curve than I expected.

 

[klodkrawler05]

As I get more flight time with the paradox I'm right there with Strunk, even compared to the other flippy discs in my bag like the Archer and a beat up Essence this disc is far more flippy, If you try to throw it hard and low like a stable mid or fairway you'll get a wild cut roll, but given enough height to work, or thrown soft enough, this disc has a spot.

Snagged a birdie yesterday that I've been struggling with on our local league course. Udisc calls the hole 280' but I think it's actually more like 220' it's a 10' wide tunnel/walking path with shrubbery on both sides and the basket maybe 30-40' left of the teepad, the play is a putter rhbh over the right side bushes that just works a little left at the end of the flight. It's tough to do with a LHFH because you've gotta throw it kind of high off the tee and you want a gentle fade/nestle. I don't have that sort of touch with a FH personally. Throwing my Archer LHBH I've struggled, if I throw it soft enough to get the distance right the disc isn't understable enough, if I throw it hard enough to get the shape right I go 40-50' deep. The paradox worked perfectly, threw it flat and a bit nose up over the right side rough, it drifted over to the left for most of the flight and then stalled out right near the basket for a 15' putt.