[Axiom] Axiom Paradox

[ThrowaEnvy]

Paradox.....Understable flippy, with a chance of fade.

 

[hawgdriver]

First impression: not as flippy as I feared. Could get good distance on a hyzerflip line--the 'turn profile' is kind of muted, if that makes sense. After it flipped up, it just stayed flat. I don't think I'd ever want to throw it beyond about 300'. Nice flight when powered down, very glidey and capable of soft little S-curves. Fits hand ok for FH.

I threw it side by side with my Tursas around a bunch of trees and stuff. It's not a bad disc. Like a flippy Tursas, but not stupid flippy.

It will come in handy for BH/FH only lies that need a reverse finish as only out/look at basket. Ground play will be iffy though, because it does need a little bit of heat to bend hard.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing if it's a new #1 in terms of lateral distance on an anny BH 'up and around the corner' type shot. I could see that.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Thing I found coolest was the BH hyzer penetration, seems counter intuitive but you can carve deep hyzer with a us disc and deep anny's with an os disc

Seems like fighting the natural path is the key to getting it deep.. But you gotta know where the break point is. Paradox is really neat because it can stable out so it goes far both ways, but you can totally torque it over as well. Very. Interesting.

Jury's still out

 

[hawgdriver]

Jury's out is often code for 'meh' since we know quickly if a disc is one that we like to throw. But it's a different kind of disc so maybe it's worth more effort to explore it completely.

What struck me right away is that it is a good flier for what it is, and a pretty decent lander. Where it could excel is simply in touch game (which is not my forte, but I would like it to be). What I mean is upshot/underpowered/finesse throws. Someone said 'long putts' and that's pretty close. An approach disc for tunnel and window upshots. You can throw it soft and it will rocker-slide instead of edge-roll, as the bank angle will be closer to level.

I'm really just spitballing. It's a fine disc, but it's built for a 30-40 mph type throw, or something like that (if a normal full-send by us amateurs is in the 50-65 range). And 30-40 mph could be great in confined body positions, when you can't get a full backswing or you are on a knee or otherwise awkward.

It makes you think.

 

[strunk flugget]

Jury's out is often code for 'meh' since we know quickly if a disc is one that we like to throw.

Where it could excel is simply in touch game (which is not my forte, but I would like it to be). What I mean is upshot/underpowered/finesse throws.

For me the jury was still out because of just how different the Paradox was to any other disc I have thrown. I have thrown meteors, comets, beat up cobras etc. but I never found something as smooth or flippy as the paradox.

i have occassionally used this disc full send with a good amount of hyzer to watch it fly straight through its rotation and then flip and flex around an obstacle all the while penetrating forward flight. I can also go full rip with flat release angled high and watch it flip and then come crashing down like a spike FH.

But, as you said, it really excels in the short game. Tunnel holes under 280' for me are where this disc shines. It does get pretty glidey so depending on the shot I am hesitant to use it within 80-100' of the basket.

I said it before in this thread but I was a little critical of how touchy the disc was and the jury was out until I lost mine and felt naked in the woods. I am so happy someone called that they had found it because I was literally on my way to PIAS to buy two.

 

[PMantle]

Thing I found coolest was the BH hyzer penetration, seems counter intuitive but you can carve deep hyzer with a us disc and deep anny's with an os disc

This was hard for me to learn. I have the hyzer thing down pretty much, but I still tend to choose a disc too understable for the job on anny lines.

 

[hawgdriver]

This was hard for me to learn. I have the hyzer thing down pretty much, but I still tend to choose a disc too understable for the job on anny lines.

This is a cool discussion about using a disc's stability and height/release angle to shape anhyzer shots. I've messed around with a lot of discs trying to actually measure it (there's a tall baseball field fence I use). The best I've done is with a Mako3--'best' meaning if I'm throwing from one dugout, how close does it get to the other dugout while bending around the tall backstop fence.

But I've noticed in other situations when a more stable disc (one shot by a Kaxe in particular sticks out) thrown on anny just unfurls and it looks like it was spit out sideways.

Gives me something to science on!

 

[hawgdriver]

The idea that the Paradox could be especially useful on a RHBH hyzer R to L shape is intriguing. I immediately poo-poo'ed the idea tbh, because I think about how much R to L penetration (skips included) with a low (e.g.) Firebird shot with a lot of hyzer.

I'd like to understand how the Paradox could excel on this shape a bit more.

 

[PMantle]

The idea that the Paradox could be especially useful on a RHBH hyzer R to L shape is intriguing. I immediately poo-poo'ed the idea tbh, because I think about how much R to L penetration (skips included) with a low (e.g.) Firebird shot with a lot of hyzer.

I'd like to understand how the Paradox could excel on this shape a bit more.

We cannot always count on skip. If you want max movement R to L, you really have to go with US, as OS disc just dump too hard. Flipping up an US disc changes its straight path.

 

[hawgdriver]

We cannot always count on skip. If you want max movement R to L, you really have to go with US, as OS disc just dump too hard. Flipping up an US disc changes its straight path.

This makes sense. It's not actually better at a tight corner so much as staying in flight further, if I understand right.

Firebird (et. al.) might be the inside of the turn, and something like a Paradox the outer part of the turn. (to use the racetrack turn in this image as an analogy).

 

[dehaas]

Throwing understable plastic on a hyzer is definitely a woods golf pro tip.

Sounds dumb but you can just hit different lines than an overstable disc on a flat release. Throwing a shot that has soft bend the entire flight or straight with very late fade has their uses.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Hey I got my first/only ace on the paradox with a hyzer downhill!!

The biggest thing was something like a Firebird is its natural dump, a more understable disc just grabs the air. Thing that is kind of cool about the Paradox is how it can stable out. I don't think I can get that past 220 so I'm not a huge power thrower but I am a comet thrower.

The way something like a soft envy anhyzers deep is because once it's forced over, the nose starts trying to come up which increases the loft as it tries to stable out, an understable disc if it's turned too hard crashes short.

My paradox is fighting my spin for bag space, paradox does an easier hyzer flip, an easier forced turn even at 60' and kinda does a late , tons of turn without burning.

. My spin turns more gradually. It's better for a late single turn.

Weird thing is in my yard rounds the paradox Is constantly parked but I have a decent FH with an Envy or a Hex. Paradox is great for a casual all arm throw and after work rounds where I'm too tired to jam on a envy etc.

Paradox also screws with my head and my game because of throws so different so the jury is still out . it's decent, it's useful but I don't know if it's going to fit in my bag long-term but it will be sitting on top of my fridge for night rounds and fun

 

[hawgdriver]

Thtew my bag at the local nine hole. Paradox is weird (by this point a disc is a disc iykwim). But really good results all the same. In spite of messing up. Anyone tried rollers with it? It did great on the 'cut the corner' high-anny test. Jury's out lol.

 

[Monocacy]

Hey I got my first/only ace on the paradox with a hyzer downhill!!

Nice ace!

. . . it's decent, it's useful but I don't know if it's going to fit in my bag long-term . . .

I hear ya. Played a midrange-only round with my brother at Seneca Creek. Had some fun throws with the Paradox: "It will look like I'm trying to hyzer straight into the woods, but I'm hoping it will flip in time."

It usually did.

Had some nice flip-up-and-drift-right throws, and a few overturned flubs. Even had a decent get-out-of-trouble sidearm. Paradox probably will not make the bag, but gosh it sure is fun to toss.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Nice ace!



I hear ya. Played a midrange-only round with my brother at Seneca Creek. Had some fun throws with the Paradox: "It will look like I'm trying to hyzer straight into the woods, but I'm hoping it will flip in time."

It usually did.

Had some nice flip-up-and-drift-right throws, and a few overturned flubs. Even had a decent get-out-of-trouble sidearm. Paradox probably will not make the bag, but gosh it sure is fun to toss.

Ha, played a fun round at the local school. Set up for kids, mostly a mid/putter course. So mostly a mid round. I'm using the paradox like a flippy putter.

Same results as you, a couple flubs but mostly good. I did manage to get 8 skins on a glidey hyzer downhill. Ha. Almost got it in the washtub, what a weird hole that was! Never had to putt into a hole before. It's a fun disc but it's hard to put tourney kinda trust into it.

Give me a couple months though! Half the time when tourneys come I steal at least a rando yard disc.

Had the most excitement with the uplink, 3 solid ace runs all about 1' too high.

 

[Moose33]

I got a Paradox in my infinite mystery box, and though it is not the type of disc I usually enjoy throwing… I can certainly see the merit.

Using only the discs from the box today I threw it on holes where I could usually throw a forehand and it got in c1 on two and drifted too far right on another. I'm not one to bag a disc this flippy, but I will begrudgingly say it is pretty darn good.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I got a Paradox in my infinite mystery box, and though it is not the type of disc I usually enjoy throwing… I can certainly see the merit.

Haha you were the last person I thought I'd find here!

 

[Moose33]

Haha you were the last person I thought I'd find here!

Probably won't be back, but it's pretty good for what it is.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Played a round today, nothing but the uplink and paradox.. Once again the goofy paradox found new paths, the uplink was consistent reward/skill, if underpowered it wasn't in the right place, putts a little harder.. Damn paradox takes it by a stroke again. Largely due to it being the right weight at 167 and just generally doing weird lines.

The uplink hit a great 5' wide tunnel straight to fade, paradox took an early tree. That was the only stroke the uplink gained . I'll save you the blow by blow but basically the paradox won out with good putting and an amazing ability to dodge trees, not the cleanest win, but yet again a lot of fun to throw with some weird releases and annoyingly good results. Never travelled over 225'.

It's all the fun of a lid, with a lot more potential and a lot less booinnnnkkk. If it was one disc on a "heritage" style short course---, hate to say it but that's the disc I might be taking..

 

[DanJon]

I'm really interested in this disc.

I've been throwing an old DX Cobra in my really flippy spot and love it, but would like something more durable.

I can throw Rocs comfortably in the 300+ range, but feel like I have clean enough form to make this disc work.

Is it really that ridiculously flippy when you're throwing it around 300 feet?