Feeling the weight of your disc (body Momentum from pocket and out)

[Kennets]

First time poster - been lurking for some time.

*feeling the weight of the disc in the throw*. (BH)

How does that feel, in your throw?

(English isn't my first language, so I'm sorry if stuff doesn't makes sense. I'll do my best)

All of this, is while staying loose.

Been doing hammer-drills at home, just messing around in the yard really. When dingling a hammer around in a pendulum kind of swing, it's easy to get the feeling of how to brace, when you should "pull" and generally is such a easy "throw". how does that translate to a nearly weightless disc?

I've heard people talking about "catching" the disc in the powerpocket, feeling the forward momentum and accelerate from there. I've tried with putters in a ridiculous slow shot, really trying to feel the weight of the disc and sling it out with some succes, but getting the arm up to speed whilst having the same feeling, that seems impossible..

When throwing a hammer, the "hit" happens around when entering the powerpocket, everything tense up (core, front leg etc) and it feels like the throwing arm flings it out while just trying to keep up with the ride (not sure how to explain it)

Is it the same feeling for you power throwers?

And how do i cooperate that into a 90% power throw?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, don't throw over 80%.

 

[Brychanus]

Learn to make your arm heavy and let it get pulled taut to feel and maintain momentum. Feel its weight and swing it.

Though less angry and tense than Grohl

 

[RowingBoats]

Learn to make your arm heavy and let it get pulled taut to feel and maintain momentum. Feel its weight and swing it.

Though less angry and tense than Grohl

This is the way. You DO need to think about the disc eventually, but for power, picture that thing as just welded to your hand, knowing you can break the weld if you throw hard af.

 

[Sheep]

A thought.
As not seeing you throw.
But you've got the idea of knowing when to add the power.

But instead of trying to feel the throw out, you can always look to where to add power.

In the disc golf swing, we want to not be looking at the target when we get to a certain point in the swing.

So, I use this time to focus somewhat in front of me to keep my head neutral and not try and muscle the shot with my head, for starters.
But also, I can see the disc in the pocket and que my brain to add more. As there is the visual representation of where to get the feel.

That probably makes 0 sense.
can somebody explain that less crap?

 

[Kennets]

A thought.
As not seeing you throw.
But you've got the idea of knowing when to add the power.

But instead of trying to feel the throw out, you can always look to where to add power.

In the disc golf swing, we want to not be looking at the target when we get to a certain point in the swing.

So, I use this time to focus somewhat in front of me to keep my head neutral and not try and muscle the shot with my head, for starters.
But also, I can see the disc in the pocket and que my brain to add more. As there is the visual representation of where to get the feel.

That probably makes 0 sense.
can somebody explain that less crap?

Thanks for the answer! I think i get it (been laughing for a few minutes though)..

I find it hard to not loose momentum in the pocket, but practice makes perfect.

 

[Brychanus]

Caveat that I'm an all-in pendulum trainee so that filters how I think about all this, but I understand the posture and pocket acceleration a little differently this week than before.

The better the posture and sequence are ahead of the hit, the more time you subjectively feel in the swing. A lot of the acceleration comes for free as you enter the pocket. I was stunned at how much more easily the disc came out with speed last week just by getting my lower body and upper body connected better and leading the entire swing with my CoG for the first time. It even looks more like swinging a sledgehammer or throwing a cinderblock on camera, but it is thoughtless and feels effortless.

So for what Sheep is saying, as the disc approaches the pocket, it's still possible to add more mustard on the disc entering the hit. Advanced players like McBeth occasionally talk about isolating parts of the swing to account for tricky shots or slippery teepads, and it seems like that works when you've got that heavy momentum system working well across the whole body. The timing and mitigating the risk of backfiring muscle tension is so much easier if all the dominos have already fallen first.

 

[Sheep]

Caveat that I'm an all-in pendulum trainee so that filters how I think about all this, but I understand the posture and pocket acceleration a little differently this week than before.

The better the posture and sequence are ahead of the hit, the more time you subjectively feel in the swing. A lot of the acceleration comes for free as you enter the pocket. I was stunned at how much more easily the disc came out with speed last week just by getting my lower body and upper body connected better and leading the entire swing with my CoG for the first time. It even looks more like swinging a sledgehammer or throwing a cinderblock on camera, but it is thoughtless and feels effortless.

So for what Sheep is saying, as the disc approaches the pocket, it's still possible to add more mustard on the disc entering the hit. Advanced players like McBeth occasionally talk about isolating parts of the swing to account for tricky shots or slippery teepads, and it seems like that works when you've got that heavy momentum system working well across the whole body. The timing and mitigating the risk of backfiring muscle tension is so much easier if all the dominos have already fallen first.

This is a really roundabout way of explaining why I don't like the "pull" technique.

the pendulum technique learned from the hammer, windmill and the other drills allow you to feel that sweet spot of heaviness of the swing where you need to engage the fast twitch muscles to rip.

You gotta set yourself up to be clean and smooth to get to the main leverage point and ADD to the momentum and leverage. You dont want to drive into the leverage, you want to drive out of leverage.


A lot of recent thoughts make me really want to think and focus on some follow through mechanics and possibilities of things we are missing in the follow through mechanics for the power. As I think there are a few things missing there.

Such as when I teach people some upshot techniques. Their main thing they want to do is stop the swing.
This creates bad releases that are not controlled, unreliable power and some injury chances.

When I teach them to "flourish" the follow through, they instantly hit it and nail it every time. And by flourish, I mean make sure to follow through excessively.

the power is instantly there for the shot vs coming up really short.

 

[Kennets]

Thanks a ton for all of your replies! I REALLY appreciate it! I've got some neck issues for 5 months now, so I'm trying to rework my form to get less strain on the neck.

I'll definitely keep in drilling when the little one is sleeping.

The "You dont want to drive into the leverage, you want to drive out of leverage." Is what I'm looking for!

 

[Sheep]

Thanks a ton for all of your replies! I REALLY appreciate it! I've got some neck issues for 5 months now, so I'm trying to rework my form to get less strain on the neck.

I'll definitely keep in drilling when the little one is sleeping.

The "You dont want to drive into the leverage, you want to drive out of leverage." Is what I'm looking for!

With neck issues.
Yeah.

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.
And its much much easier if you try and keep your head neutral and relaxed, which reduces the next strain.

If you got neck strain from golf, it's from muscling and leading with your head, thats a no no.

 

[Kennets]

With neck issues.
Yeah.

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.
And its much much easier if you try and keep your head neutral and relaxed, which reduces the next strain.

If you got neck strain from golf, it's from muscling and leading with your head, thats a no no.

It's a mixture of bad posture, being a floor sander for 10 years and MAYBE because of disc golf, who knows really..

I've been a FH dominant player, but that really doesn't suit my neck these days.

I'll keep asking "stupid" questions in this thread - got time for some field work tomorrow, so I'll give you guys an update afterwards..

 

[Sheep]

It's a mixture of bad posture, being a floor sander for 10 years and MAYBE because of disc golf, who knows really..

I've been a FH dominant player, but that really doesn't suit my neck these days.

I'll keep asking "stupid" questions in this thread - got time for some field work tomorrow, so I'll give you guys an update afterwards..

Questions are not stupid.

It helps us all think and grow together.
=)

 

[Kennets]

Questions are not stupid.

It helps us all think and grow together.
=)

Quick update!

Played a round today (neck has been **** all week) and shot one of the hest rounds in my nearly 3 year of disc golf.

AND!!! I threw a BH in the range of 400-430 feets of the tee (not gonna mention the hole is 330 )

The funny part about the "smash", it felt effortless, but still powerful. I really gotta focus on lagging the arm behind some more and get a good weigh shift along with the brace. When i try too amp it up, it all goes downhill.

THANKS for all the great advices in this thread - 400 was a milestone for my BH - and I'm gonna head for 450-500, when they find out why my neck hurts.

 

[Brychanus]

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.

Encouraging you to elaborate and SW22 to respond (sincerely curious).

 

[sidewinder22]

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.

Encouraging you to elaborate and SW22 to respond (sincerely curious).

 

[drk_evns]

With neck issues.
Yeah.

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.
And its much much easier if you try and keep your head neutral and relaxed, which reduces the next strain.

If you got neck strain from golf, it's from muscling and leading with your head, thats a no no.

Encouraging you to elaborate and SW22 to respond (sincerely curious).

Good form with the "pendulum method" can absolutely get you 500+. GG, for example. SW himself throws a teebird 350ft in the one leg drill video.

I also don't see the movements as that different. Everything Brychanus said about leading with CoG and heavy swings from the pendulum perspective are equally true in a swing like McBeths.

The head positioning became less of a factor for me when I started actually getting my swing to whip out in front of my power pocket as opposed to caught behind my shoulder. It's more about open/closed shoulders in most cases I see with ams.

 

[Kennets]

Good form with the "pendulum method" can absolutely get you 500+. GG, for example. SW himself throws a teebird 350ft in the one leg drill video.

I also don't see the movements as that different. Everything Brychanus said about leading with CoG and heavy swings from the pendulum perspective are equally true in a swing like McBeths.

The head positioning became less of a factor for me when I started actually getting my swing to whip out in front of my power pocket as opposed to caught behind my shoulder. It's more about open/closed shoulders in most cases I see with ams.

Struggling with the last part, specially when I'm throwing flat/anhyzer lines. I ens up with shoulders/frontside turning towards target and "hugging" myself.

Any particular drills that helped you out?

 

[Sheep]

The head positioning became less of a factor for me when I started actually getting my swing to whip out in front of my power pocket as opposed to caught behind my shoulder. It's more about open/closed shoulders in most cases I see with ams.

The head thing comes more to a "lead" or "drive" with the head vs letting the head do its thing, ala, be neutral.

A lot of people throw their head to throw the shot, or drive their head forward to initiate the throw. and that's ... not the way to do it.

I think people really misunderstand "neutral head."

There isn't any reason you cannot do anything with the head, but if you relax the neck and let your body flow, its a lot easy to get the body to swing when you're not tensing the neck muscles trying to drive the shot with your head vs your body.

Also, the body will follow the head, so if you try and drive with the head, it can lead to other issues in the overall swing.

 

[Brychanus]

the pendulum method that seabass teaches with a neutral head is what I call easy and fun golf
you're not going to throw 500 feet that way, but you'll easily throw 300.
And its much much easier if you try and keep your head neutral and relaxed, which reduces the next strain.

I'm still confused what the claim is here.

In this thread, you appear to twice agree that a neutral head position and relaxed neck is desirable, which is indeed part of the seabas-style pendulum way of teaching.

I am not clear about the basis of the 500ft vs. 300ft claim. That appears to be a general claim about the system of thought and teaching and not just about the neck in particular. Perhaps 300ft is hyperbole, but the claim still seems to imply there is some kind of fundamental deficiency that precludes someone from achieving 500 ft. Perhaps you are referring to throwing in a pendulum - appearing style rather than just the system of teachin- this is unclear to me.

While 500 ft is uncommon for reasons not just strictly related to form, if you spend time on the form critique thread there are cases of folks achieving and exceeding 500ft from the pendulum style of instruction and mechanics despite what end up being probably more superficial differences in the form (drk_evns gets at this above). So here again, I am not sure what the claim is about.

I'm usually not so confrontational about specific claims I see around here, but this one is really leaving me struggling and it bothers me when I misunderstand something. So I persist

 

[Sard0nyx]

I'm still confused what the claim is here.

In this thread, you appear to twice agree that a neutral head position and relaxed neck is desirable, which is indeed part of the seabas-style pendulum way of teaching.

I am not clear about the basis of the 500ft vs. 300ft claim. That appears to be a general claim about the system of thought and teaching and not just about the neck in particular. Perhaps 300ft is hyperbole, but the claim still seems to imply there is some kind of fundamental deficiency that precludes someone from achieving 500 ft. Perhaps you are referring to throwing in a pendulum - appearing style rather than just the system of teachin- this is unclear to me.

While 500 ft is uncommon for reasons not just strictly related to form, if you spend time on the form critique thread there are cases of folks achieving and exceeding 500ft from the pendulum style of instruction and mechanics despite what end up being probably more superficial differences in the form (drk_evns gets at this above). So here again, I am not sure what the claim is about.

I'm usually not so confrontational about specific claims I see around here, but this one is really leaving me struggling and it bothers me when I misunderstand something. So I persist

I think he's being a bit hyperbolic. It seems clear to me that most instruction these days is very basic. A simple pendulum swing will probably max out at around 400ft if you don't learn how to put the extra sauce on it. I don't think any modern teachers have managed to simplify the teaching on snap that was so prevalent in the early 2010s. Watching top pros walk up and flick their wrist to throw 300ft shows that were clearly missing something in our throws. You can chalk some of it up to athleticism, but my reading into the old archives of DGR shows that there are ways for normal people to throw well over 400ft if they can harness the snap and have proper lower body and weight shift. Unfortunately, we all like to focus on the easy things to fix (body control and mechanics) over trying to figure out the mystical snap. Ultimately, that will hit a plateau unless the extra sauce is figured out.