Form check RHBH

[semisensei]

Gotcha. Yes, Antti's swing is incredible- in fact, his little disc flip was a bit of a game changer for me with nose down, in that it helped me focus on supinating the wrist with the shoulder internally rotated.
Anyway, why is it important that the disc rise into the top of the back swing, as opposed to lower? I see throwers like Drew Gibson, Cole Redalen, Anthony Barela, who seem to punch the disc downwards/backwards to the top of the backswing.
Roan's swing is really interesting, because the plane of his backswing seems higher than his swing and release. When I've had a high backswing, I seem to always throw it nose up.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't see a downward punch like you are talking about in any of them. They basically keep the disc in place and extend/unfold arm/disc and is shoulder high at the top of the backswing. The CoG drops faster than the arm/disc lagging/loading behind like door frame drill.

 

[semisensei]

Is the idea then that there is more leverage on the disc when it is shoulder high at the top of the backswing?
Here's an example of what I mean by the downward movement at the top of the backswing with Cole:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY8EMr-ATEP/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

But you're right, on his powered up throws the disc levitates while his CoG drops, and pull through begins at shoulder height.

And Colten Montgomery is a very exaggerated version of what I was trying to emulate:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ce18uSDgcoO/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


It's funny because I have been consciously trying to keep the disc lower than my elbow at the top of the backswing (around hip height) to help with nose up/wobble issues. But really, I think the tweak that has helped most with nose down is changing my wrist alignment (wrist supinated fully, shoulder internally rotated) through the power pocket, so I'll try to levitate the disc more and see if I still have the same problem with wobble.
Thanks again, SW22!

 

[sidewinder22]

If you are going to do the cmonty oblique swing plane then you need to get your shoulders really vertical, so the arm/disc is not really so downward relative to the shoulder. Your shoulders/torso are too horizontal/upright and off plane to the arm/disc. Start the lawnmower.

 

[semisensei]

That makes sense. So the takeaway for me is either get the disc levitating higher in backswing, or get the lead shoulder lower (more vertical), or maybe a combo of both. Either way, it looks like the desired angle between the arm and the hip/lead shoulder line at the top of the backswing should be oblique, as opposed to my angle here, which is acute. The bigger the angle at the shoulder, the better leverage against the door frame/lawnmower.
That sounds about right?

 

[sidewinder22]

The plane is oblique/diagonal. The angle is obtuse vs acute.

 

[semisensei]

Ah yes haha I was confusing oblique with obtuse- thank you for the correction!

 

[semisensei]

One more question: when you say plane is oblique, do you mean that the swing plane is diagonal to the spine, not perpendicular to it? As in, hyzer angle vs flat?
This is what I understand oblique to mean anatomically:
https://images.app.goo.gl/YhJrBJTcgZ8QSgL96

Thanks again!

 

[sidewinder22]

Everything is oblique, the body, the arm/disc. Cmonty's body is folded diagonally, not twisted horizontally or vertically.

 

[semisensei]

Worked today in the field, trying to levitate the disc higher in the backswing, and get more of an obtuse angle between my hip/shoulder line and my arm. Was feeling some pretty good snaps- keeping everything as a line drive to keep me honest with the nose angle.
These went about 340' on a line drive.

https://youtu.be/hQ8sHJQkZHU

Also, I think I've confirmed once and for all that my nose up issues are almost 100% due to timing. I've seen you say it dozens of times that nose up usually has to do with swinging before the weight settles in the plant, and that's exactly right. Thing is, I totally was waiting before the weight settled to consciously pull through, BUT: I didn't realize that the early timing of my pump was setting me up to hit the top of the backswing early, causing me to sort of drag into the plant, and inevitably pop the nose up. Although I wasn't *trying* to pull off the back foot, it was happening as a result of my poor body position (disc too far behind me, too early). I can now predict with nearly 100% accuracy wether or not I'll have a nose up (or nose down with a super wobble) by seeing footage of me take the x step and pump. Good throw with nose down = disc pump times with left foot coming through, backswing not started until left foot is down. Bad throw w/ nose up = disc pumps with right foot coming forward, is already moving backwards as left foot comes forward, begins to drag forward before right foot plants.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this little discovery as this is actually quite the breakthrough for me. I've been battling the mysterious nose up syndrome for a LONG time now. Now that I know the issue is all about timing, I see the light at the end of the tunnel and my consistency is way better (as long as I remember to fight the old habit!)

However, still topping out at about 360' haha. Long way to go before I reach my goal of 400' on demand. Thanks for all your thoughts and advice! Progress hasn't been linear, but progress it has been.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[semisensei]

Not sure what I should interpret here haha.
I suppose I should just keep focusing on breaking the bad timing habit, and get nose down consistently, but I can't help but wonder what's still missing from the swing to get it past 400…

 

[sidewinder22]

You have no counter kick behind the front foot.

 

[semisensei]

Is the rear leg kick a result of the drive leg push (stepping on the gas with left foot)?
Or is it more of a balance thing, getting the shoulders more out in front of the toes? Or more forward onto the brace

 

[semisensei]

Here's my attempts at getting the rear counter kick in there:

https://youtu.be/ZViaCMJfJZg

My swing thought was to get my weight more forward over my plant, swinging my shoulder further out in front. This was actually a pretty great session in terms of distance, I was throwing hyzers or line drives goal post to goal post fairly consistently.
Am I on the right track here?

 

[semisensei]

Question about the Simon Syndrome video: Should the lead shoulder be out in front of the lead knee (as in, furthest down trajectory line) at the hit/release?

I think my last step might be too long, leaving my shoulder behind the knee, and getting a little jacked up at times…

 

[Brychanus]

Is the rear leg kick a result of the drive leg push (stepping on the gas with left foot)?
Or is it more of a balance thing, getting the shoulders more out in front of the toes? Or more forward onto the brace

It's an effect of getting your full weight forward on the plant leg and your posture rolling the leg under/behind you to help maintain balance. The push helps get that weight onto the front leg and as the hips swivel it brings that rear leg into counterbalance. Good weight shift + good posture gets the effect.

Question about the Simon Syndrome video: Should the lead shoulder be out in front of the lead knee (as in, furthest down trajectory line) at the hit/release?

I believe "yes" - see me from a couple weeks ago vs. SW22 in the attached image. You want the weight braced dynamically by the plant leg, and the shoulder swings forward over the knee toward the trajectory line like SW22 there (stacked right over the foot on one leg, it'll be the same but relative to a more slanted brace in the xstep).

Here's my attempts at getting the rear counter kick in there:

https://youtu.be/ZViaCMJfJZg

My swing thought was to get my weight more forward over my plant, swinging my shoulder further out in front. This was actually a pretty great session in terms of distance, I was throwing hyzers or line drives goal post to goal post fairly consistently.
Am I on the right track here?

There's a bit of a counter getting in there, but it looks like you're reaching a little with the plant step, and you might be a little to forward/too over the toes in the drive step. If you tighten that it up might start to kick behind more naturally.

Might also be dragging the rear shoulder a bit.

 

[semisensei]

Thank you, Brychanus! I'm a big fan of the channel, btw… thanks for all your insights.

That image illustrates perfectly what I was wondering- I think my plant step is going out too far, and I'm getting trapped behind it. I definitely notice a difference in power when I can bring the lead shoulder more forward.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by dragging the left shoulder? Thanks again!

 

[semisensei]

I've been trying to work on getting the weight forward and getting that counterweight kick through the swing. It's been tricky- my balance feels out of whack, and then in focusing on balance I reverted to old timing habits (reaching back too soon/too far, and starting the pull too early), which lead to nose up inevitably. It's funny how my swing can feel like a house of cards sometimes!

Anyway, about every 7 throws I feel like I catch the right feeling, and have a huge rip. Getting the timing and the balance right is still tough for me to nail, but I think I'm making some (non linear) progress:

https://youtu.be/TOTCAUYPfZA

These are some fairly ok rips on hyzer. Focus was on more hip hinge, and a stiffer plant (I noticed mine tends to get squishy), with shoulders more vertical (dropping right shoulder below left more). On the right track?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Lead leg. Note how I'm landing on my front toes with knee extended and chin inline to heel to crush the can and then knee can bend to break the fall. Note how your front leg has slack landing and your head/chin is too far over toes to be inline/stacked to crush the can.

2. Rear leg. Note how my rear knee is bent and rear heel is up and foot rolls inward like Swivel Chair. Note how your rear knee is locked out and rear toes airborne and have no inward foot roll.

Elbow hips forward and roll rear foot inward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m44s