Has Paige Pierce peaked?

[Jackal]

I've said this before - maybe even on this thread.

She's the most frustrating player I've ever seen to watch. She is so much better than everyone but she goes for EVERYTHING and it kills her. She has one of the worst game plans of anyone on tour.
.

Completely agree with this. Maddening to watch her when she's not making shots and she's still running everything.

McBeth does this at times too. He might have won worlds last year if he had just layed up for the easy tap in par I think it was instead of running the death putt (that ended up going OB and then he missed the come back). Then he wouldn't have made a 7 on 18 in the 3rd round of worlds last year.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Well, again: putting is the most unique and individual thing about disc golf. While most pros (and smart amateurs) throw drivers with the same basic form, you (plural) will see everyone from the most elite to the most casual putt in many different ways. From (World Champion) Sarah Hokum to (World Champion) Ricky Wysocki to (World Champion) Paul McBeth to (World Champion?) Eric McCabe... four elite players with four different putting styles... to people in my casual group on weekends, the putting is as unique as the people throwing the discs.

So I won't tell anyone what to emulate or not emulate when it comes to putting. Do what works.

While I tend to agree with the last sentence, I would give anybody the same advice for putting... The fewer "moving parts" the better.

Take Barela for example. When his putting is on, he looks smooth. But when its off a little bit, you will start noticing all the little movements he has and how all those things have to line up just right for the putt to fly properly. Some people just have naturally good timing with that kind of thing. Take Jim Furyk. He has the ugliest golf swing of any pro I have seen but has great timing to bring it all into line at contact. AB doesn't or at least it comes and goes for him.

 

[Casey 1988]

Is someone doing a satire of disc golf that I didn't know about?

I agree though that there sees to be parity in both the men's and women' side of things. I think it is good to see and only helps the game. It's not just Paige Pierce winning, and it's no longer just McBeth and Wysocki. I also think it is good to see that McBeth's switch to Discraft really hasn't affected his game much. As much as the fanbois want to believe and convince us all that company X's discs will make you a better player or Team Y's players are the only cool players around, discs really are are commodity now and it doesn't matter what or whose discs you are throwing.

Unless a brand makes a disc that nobody else does anything even close to it that is a big part of your game. Thinking discs like the Gila from Reptile Discs or something like that, a disc that no other brand has even copied. An Epic and Arrow from Aerobie might be another 2 discs that could be lacking in a persons though using a Brands most OS disc in both a hard plastic and a really soft might compensate for not having Arrow though nothing is like the Epic for the flip style tomahawk/thumber , I saw a few guys use that disc to make up for not having the flip style of tomahawk/thumber yey I can do the two finger tomahawk not well as I more often go sky hyzer in more a spike line though it is not as perpendicular to the ground more a 30% angle as to no get the potential bounce from the more vertical throw.

 

[Casey 1988]

While I tend to agree with the last sentence, I would give anybody the same advice for putting... The fewer "moving parts" the better.

Take Barela for example. When his putting is on, he looks smooth. But when its off a little bit, you will start noticing all the little movements he has and how all those things have to line up just right for the putt to fly properly. Some people just have naturally good timing with that kind of thing. Take Jim Furyk. He has the ugliest golf swing of any pro I have seen but has great timing to bring it all into line at contact. AB doesn't or at least it comes and goes for him.

My putt has quite a few parts but the way they are used helps with my putt having less variation on my putt to have it work right more often.

 

[BionicRib]

Unless a brand makes a disc that nobody else does anything even close to it that is a big part of your game. Thinking discs like the Gila from Reptile Discs or something like that, a disc that no other brand has even copied. An Epic and Arrow from Aerobie might be another 2 discs that could be lacking in a persons though using a Brands most OS disc in both a hard plastic and a really soft might compensate for not having Arrow though nothing is like the Epic for the flip style tomahawk/thumber , I saw a few guys use that disc to make up for not having the flip style of tomahawk/thumber yey I can do the two finger tomahawk not well as I more often go sky hyzer in more a spike line though it is not as perpendicular to the ground more a 30% angle as to no get the potential bounce from the more vertical throw.

Say wha?

 

[brutalbrutus]

Say wha?

Hold your breath for 5min and then hit yourself in the head with a hammer and it will all make sense...:|

 

[Motorpro]

maybe when you all 3 have world championships she will start taking your advice

 

[IHearChains]

While I tend to agree with the last sentence, I would give anybody the same advice for putting... The fewer "moving parts" the better.

Take Barela for example. When his putting is on, he looks smooth. But when its off a little bit, you will start noticing all the little movements he has and how all those things have to line up just right for the putt to fly properly. Some people just have naturally good timing with that kind of thing. Take Jim Furyk. He has the ugliest golf swing of any pro I have seen but has great timing to bring it all into line at contact. AB doesn't or at least it comes and goes for him.

Barela is the only player I've ever seen with this weird bicycle motion where he moves his off arm in the opposite direction like he's pedaling a bike. I have been trying to understand what that does for him, and I just can't figure it out. It seems like it would (a) take some energy away from the weight shift and putting stroke, and (b) cause some twisting motion to his upper body. Seems like both of those require even more unnecessary moving parts to be added in order to compensate.

 

[XC_Eddy]

So I won't tell anyone what to emulate or not emulate when it comes to putting. Do what works.

Sure, there are lots of ways to be a successful putter. The basics of putting support a greater variety of successful form than driving. The number one priority in putting from is doing what is comfortable with an important caveat: AS LONG AS IT WORKS. It's one thing to critique a players form when it's working, another when that form is producing undesirable results.

Example: I try to refrain from critiquing Sarah Hokom's forehand form because she is successful with it. It has a lot of moving parts, it looks like it's stressful on joints, and I'd never show Hokom's forehand as an example of what a good forehand looks like. But I leave it alone because it works very well for her. She hits tight lines and has great control with that crazy forehand.

Her putt, though? I'll talk about her putt because it gets her in trouble. It doesn't work for her. She lofts the putter almost 10 ft above the basket and hopes that it comes back down on target. A large vertical arc adds an unnecessary variable to putting, and it shows in the ineffectiveness of her putting.

Early this year it looks like she's changed her putting form during the off season and is no longer doing the crazy loft thing. She was routinely bouncing 15 footers off the band last year, often producing bad roll aways in the process, because of her bad putting form. If she really has changed it, then good for her. That was a smart choice that will pay dividends down the line.

You could say the same thing about Seppo Paju's putting form. His straight from the chest form was bad AND it wasn't working for him. He switched it up, and that form change will likely pay off long term.

Paige Pierce's putting is not working for her. It's fair to critique it based on that fact alone.

 

[JC17393]

Paige Pierce's putting is not working for her. It's fair to critique it based on that fact alone.

I think it's fair to say her putting wasn't working very well in Vegas. But there's a difference between saying her putting was not working for her there and saying her putting is not working for her in general.

She came out of the gate badly, but she actually finished the weekend fairly well. She was 0% in C1x in round 1, 54% in round 2, 67% in round 3 and 90% in round 4 for an overall of 61% for the tournament (5th best in the field...Bjerkaas, interestingly, was at 35%). Her C1x percentage for all of 2018 was 65%, which was fifth among qualified FPO players (#1 was 72%). So in general, she wasn't as far off on the green as she usually is.

That's not to say she can't be better (everyone can) but ultimately, the difference for her in Vegas didn't come down to her putting, it came down to her keeping her disc between the lines. She just compounded her worst rounds going OB with her worst rounds on the green.

 

[araytx]

I'll say one thing again:

She's a 970-rated player. NDL.

 

[XC_Eddy]

I think it's fair to say her putting wasn't working very well in Vegas. But there's a difference between saying her putting was not working for her there and saying her putting is not working for her in general.

She came out of the gate badly, but she actually finished the weekend fairly well. She was 0% in C1x in round 1, 54% in round 2, 67% in round 3 and 90% in round 4 for an overall of 61% for the tournament (5th best in the field...Bjerkaas, interestingly, was at 35%). Her C1x percentage for all of 2018 was 65%, which was fifth among qualified FPO players (#1 was 72%). So in general, she wasn't as far off on the green as she usually is.

That's not to say she can't be better (everyone can) but ultimately, the difference for her in Vegas didn't come down to her putting, it came down to her keeping her disc between the lines. She just compounded her worst rounds going OB with her worst rounds on the green.

That's fair. Her putting is not terrible. When she goes cold, she really goes cold. That happens to most payers. It is, however, worth noting that 5th is effectively middle of the pack for FPO.

I would make the same argument that I made about her putting about her aggressive play, then: Her aggressive play style is not working for her, she goes out of bounds way too often, and she'd score consistently higher if she picked her shots.

I'd be interested to see if there is a correlation between her OB rate and putting %. I hypothesize that when her driving his off, it frustrates her, and then her putting is off, too. Again, that happens to most players.

 

[tomdizzlefizzle]

Paige is the most talented at throwing frisbees in fpo but her golf game has always lacked. My guess is we'll never see her dominate the way she has in the past but she'll still pick up some big wins.

 

[JC17393]

It is, however, worth noting that 5th is effectively middle of the pack for FPO.

5th out of 31 (in Vegas) is neither technically nor effectively middle of the pack.

 

[ShopTom.com]

Of the open rated (925+) players in the field, Paige Pierce and Sarah Hokem tied with 6 better and 6 worse.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I'll say one thing again:

She's a 970-rated player. NDL.

Actually shes a 967-rated player, but it wouldn't matter if she was a 1051. People are going to critique the top athletes of any sport, whether it be McBeth, Lebron, or Brady.

If all we could do is tell each other how great they are and not discuss the greater intricacies, what the hell is the point?

 

[wproct]

Paige is the most talented at throwing frisbees in fpo but her golf game has always lacked. My guess is we'll never see her dominate the way she has in the past but she'll still pick up some big wins.

I agree with this, but not that it makes any difference on Paige's game improving or not. The simple fact is there is getting to be more and more FPO players whose games are at a very high level. It's no longer going to be just two players battling it out for a tournament win.

 

[araytx]

Actually shes a 967-rated player, but it wouldn't matter if she was a 1051. People are going to critique the top athletes of any sport, whether it be McBeth, Lebron, or Brady.

If all we could do is tell each other how great they are and not discuss the greater intricacies, what the hell is the point?

First of all, Really? 3 points? At that level the fluctuation is that much every update. Upthread when I stated a similar she was at 978. That's her ability and the numbers don't lie.

As far as critiquing the top athletes, not a problem, but there's a difference between "I'd like to see her try to____________" from a 950- or 930- or 900-rated player (like I am guessing/assuming that some of those commenters are), and "Paige NEEDS to _______________" from same said players. I made a similar comment to a friend of mine who kept commenting to me on the course a year or so back about what Lisa Fajkus needs to.... I reminded him that she was 940 and he wasn't that yet. I mean, do we really say things like, "Tom Brady needs to learn how to scramble better, he's just not good at that," or "Steph Curry is the worst finisher at the rim I've ever seen; he needs to work on that"? No. Not even in our most crazy guy talk does it sound like that. We know we're not in their league. We might say what we'd "like" to see,...

Back to point. Some of us know Paige and her goals. I'd bet she could TRY to play conservative on all these courses with the OB flag lines everywhere, throw her mids when most of her opponents throw drivers, and putters when they throw mids -- and probably/maybe "win" or "dominate" more events. But knowing her like I do I suspect Paige wants to find out just how good she really is or could be. She has hopes of becoming the first 980- woman (she's gotten to within one point), then 990-, then 1000- before she gets out of her prime years. At age 27 she has to be thinking about how many of those years are left before Father Time starts taking away her ability to get better. She could very well be thinking, "Am I here JUST to win this event or am I here to accomplish my goals?" "And is there some compromise in there that I'd be willing to accept?"

I don't know those things, but they have crossed my mind.

 

[SD86]

Back to point. Some of us know Paige and her goals. I'd bet she could TRY to play conservative on all these courses with the OB flag lines everywhere, throw her mids when most of her opponents throw drivers, and putters when they throw mids -- and probably/maybe "win" or "dominate" more events. But knowing her like I do I suspect Paige wants to find out just how good she really is or could be. She has hopes of becoming the first 980- woman (she's gotten to within one point), then 990-, then 1000- before she gets out of her prime years. At age 27 she has to be thinking about how many of those years are left before Father Time starts taking away her ability to get better. She could very well be thinking, "Am I here JUST to win this event or am I here to accomplish my goals?" "And is there some compromise in there that I'd be willing to accept?"

I don't know those things, but they have crossed my mind.

And to your point, if PP wants to see how good she can be, she must see how good she is at the mental aspect of the game (i.e. course management). I'm not saying she should be conservative, just smart about it.

Analogy: some years ago at a British Open( golf ball golf tournament), there was some really windy weather. I think it was at St. Andrews. Some guy named Eldrick T. Woods (middle name 'Tiger'), at that time one of the most powerful drivers in the world, used his driver a grand total of ONCE in four rounds of golf during that tournament. He hit a lot of 2-iron shots off the tee, played his low-to-the-ground game, and won that Major going away. Phil Mickelson, also a powerful driver who doesn't seem to know when and how to play 'conservative', tried driving and ended up in trouble a lot in that tournament. Some years later, when he played a lot smarter game, he won the Open.

My point: Tiger's course management that tournament was the best I've ever seen. His best golf weapon that weekend was that device between his ears. In a like manner, several players showed good course management at the LVC. Catrina and Paige B were two excellent examples, and they ended in a playoff. Paige Pierce did NOT show such course management; like Mickelson, she just seemed to go pell-mell, Katy-bar-the-door on every throw, and ended up in some trouble. PP definitely is the strongest FPO player in the game physically; she needs to become better mentally. If she does, look out! it could be scary for the rest of the FPO field.

 

[Casey 1988]

Say wha?

Well lets just say you are currently sponsored by a brand that makes a disc or lets you use another brand disc in same family that nobody else makes or even a disc that is close and it is a part of your game and you had used it since you have been playing. You for whatever reason move or decide to move to another brands discs, then your game will suffer for a good while maybe up to a year as a pro until you find a way to play without said disc in your game.