How deep should a Payout Be?

[JC17393]

It's very curious to me that when I check out other tournaments around the country that MA2 is peopled by many more players with mid to low 800 ratings. And many don't have anyone playing in MA3 at all.

I think it very much depends on the depth of the "talent" at the top.

If MPO is populated by at least a handful of 990-1000+ rated players such that shooting 990+ is required to cash, you get less of the 940-970 players moving up to MPO...at least moving up quickly. If they're lingering in MA1, then the 910-930ish players are more apt to linger in MA2 until they're forced to. And so on down the line.

But if you've got an area where at best there's one or two 1000 rated guys and most of the MPO field is 950-980ish players, it trickles down. That's the case up here in the northeast. I'm a 960 rated player who at most tournaments is in contention to cash in MPO, even win on occasion. I'm rarely ever the lowest rated player in the division either. Plenty of 930-940 rated guys in MPO. When they're there, that opens MA1 to the 900-930 guys who might otherwise play MA2 (because they not only can contend, they can win MA1). And it trickles down that way, to the point that you have 800 rated players finishing at the top of MA3 on occasion.

The ratings breaks are set on a national/international level, where they fit best based on the total number of players in the PDGA. However, the breaks aren't always a universal fit to every region. Sometimes they fit perfectly to the player base, sometimes not.

I think if the PDGA forced players into their ratings-based division with no option to play up, there would be regions in which there would be little to no competition in MPO. Not saying that would be wrong, but the onus always seems to be to push everyone up the ranks regardless of rating if the top divisions would be thin otherwise.

 

[discRabbit]

By that reasoning, paying anything in Advanced should be avoided, since they shoot worse than Open. Even a trophy is tainted.

But why should players of a certain skill level be allowed to play for each other's entries, but not a lower skill level? We're all just gambling our entries---why shouldn't a bunch of us duffers be allowed to play together, and gamble our entries among ourselves?

Indeed, skill protected divisions need no payout. You can't "win" in a skill-protected division, the very idea is absurd (and quite naturally leads to ego-massaging sand-bagging).

Keep the divisions, but nix all payout. Any fellowship of duffers can set up a side-pot for gambling (but keep it hush)

 

[discRabbit]

Small events, especially am divisions, should be focused on keeping players engaged and excited to compete throughout the day. Deep payouts are the way to do that.

If people aren't "engaged" unless they receive trinkets for their score, I'd seriously question why they're playing in the first place :doh:

 

[corin_brown]

I think it very much depends on the depth of the "talent" at the top.

If MPO is populated by at least a handful of 990-1000+ rated players such that shooting 990+ is required to cash, you get less of the 940-970 players moving up to MPO...at least moving up quickly. If they're lingering in MA1, then the 910-930ish players are more apt to linger in MA2 until they're forced to. And so on down the line.

But if you've got an area where at best there's one or two 1000 rated guys and most of the MPO field is 950-980ish players, it trickles down. That's the case up here in the northeast. I'm a 960 rated player who at most tournaments is in contention to cash in MPO, even win on occasion. I'm rarely ever the lowest rated player in the division either. Plenty of 930-940 rated guys in MPO. When they're there, that opens MA1 to the 900-930 guys who might otherwise play MA2 (because they not only can contend, they can win MA1). And it trickles down that way, to the point that you have 800 rated players finishing at the top of MA3 on occasion.

The ratings breaks are set on a national/international level, where they fit best based on the total number of players in the PDGA. However, the breaks aren't always a universal fit to every region. Sometimes they fit perfectly to the player base, sometimes not.

I think if the PDGA forced players into their ratings-based division with no option to play up, there would be regions in which there would be little to no competition in MPO. Not saying that would be wrong, but the onus always seems to be to push everyone up the ranks regardless of rating if the top divisions would be thin otherwise.

Yeah, all that makes sense. Good stuff.

How fast do your PDGA events fill up in the northeast, generally?

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Indeed, skill protected divisions need no payout. You can't "win" in a skill-protected division, the very idea is absurd (and quite naturally leads to ego-massaging sand-bagging).

Keep the divisions, but nix all payout. Any fellowship of duffers can set up a side-pot for gambling (but keep it hush)

It's a handicapping system. Plenty of sports offer handicap leagues. What is absurd is the idea that unless you are the absolute best of the best, you should not be allowed to compete for prizes. It is also curious that you have such a passionate disdain for merch payouts for amateurs, especially since by the tone of your post you play open, and the money generated from those AMs is often what allows for boosting the MPO CASH payouts.

We have a regional circuit of B tiers that avg 160 AM players per event. They provide the option to play trophy only and pay just $15. I have not once heard of anyone choosing that option. I'm sure on occasion someone does, but people that would rather NOT play for prizes are in the vast minority, and it is not even close.

 

[Dcinmd]

But now, in VA, I don't have that. Each event stands on its own, and if I get into the lunch break with no chance of contending in round 2, I'm not going back out with the same competitive fire. At that point I'm simply playing for the opportunity to raise my rating by a couple points.

Virginia does have a point series, OODS. Might not be similar to NE.

http://spotsydiscgolfclub.wixsite.com/spotsydgc/odds